MS says W10M is ready, I call that BS

[t0shibasz]

I really hope that post is NOT to the point.

If all we're discussing is aesthetics (monochromatic vs. being "rainbowy"), then this thread is a complete waste of time.

I think most agree that W10M does fix many of WP's perceived aesthetical problems (text not fitting on screen, too bland, etc). Some will maintain MS screwed up as much as it fixed (circles for people, round toggle buttons that seem completely out of place, etc), but that is ultimately all subjective and superficial.

I really hope this thread is not about such superficial issues, but about the areas W10M's UI falls on its face functionally, i.e. in terms of one handed usability, consistency, discoverability, legibility, etc

In most of those areas W10M does worse than WP. IMHO the main redeeming UI factor W10M can present in that area is familiarity to iOS and Android users.

Seeing where "we stand now" (we as Win Mobile), i think its to the point. Functionality & Aesthetics. Otherwise why they came back with start button on W10 desktop? Its about the common experience.

I have repeated my self numerous of times - dock icons for mobile is like start button on desktop. This is the standard for the mainstream. And can you give me one rational benefit of that long list of apps in a drawer instead of grid? Empty, non-used space on a right side...

I said...if they want only niche segment from the market they can continue this way. And just in case, instead of asking us (WP fans) whats wrong and how to improve it, they can go to Android and iOS forums and ask there. Cuz they need them....

 

[loribinca]

I got the Apple watch and iPad as a gift. I snagged an iPhone 5s from ATT and much as I dislike IOS, it works and I have access to all the stuff I never had access to on Windows Phone. I am using most of Microsoft's apps on all these devices. I honestly think this is the long term plan for MS

 

[HoosierDaddy]

II am using most of Microsoft's apps on all these devices. I honestly think this is the long term plan for MS

Of course it's the plan. No reason to deprive people of Windows services just because they choose an inferior phone. That would be like adding injury to insult.
__________________________________________
When in doubt, yes, I am probably joking.

 

[a5cent]

Seeing where "we stand now" (we as Win Mobile), i think its to the point. Functionality & Aesthetics. Otherwise why they came back with start button on W10 desktop? Its about the common experience.


I said...if they want only niche segment from the market they can continue this way. And just in case, instead of asking us (WP fans) whats wrong and how to improve it, they can go to Android and iOS forums and ask there. Cuz they need them....

I don't understand how your analogy to the W10 start menu has anything to do with this.


Anyway, the idea that a more familiar UI will get iOS and Android users to switch, boarders on insanity (or mass wishful thinking?). We know what the actual problems are (official apps, regional apps, no support from Google, stigma). The UI is just NOT important enough to get people to overlook those disadvantages, particularly not if all WM aims to offer is what those folks already have.


I can't imagine a strategy more flawed than that (which is also why that's not actually what MS is thinking).

 

[anon(123856)]

They don't need to please everyone. They need to offer a product that is finished / polished on a level of the competitors. An because with their small base of users, they can not change "general habits of mobile experience" - they need to offer similar experience (or to offer something breakthrough like Apple did with introducing of iPhone)
My opinion is that different UI experience is bigger problem than app gap. Most of the people I think, are not so demanding about the apps.

Of course they have to please people. This whole thread is about how displeased some people are.

 

[anon(123856)]

If Microsoft worked hard on WP there won't be any need to moan about anything but they are incompetent, lazy, careless, slow company ONLY WHEN IT COMES TO WP. Sorry I like them but that's the truth they are a sloth on WP but extremely competitive in other MS departments

Those are strong words. I presume, you like myself, don't actually have any clue is to what is going on inside MS. Lets understand something here. I'm not defending MS in any way, shape or form. I just don't get all the complaining about an unfinished piece of work which no one was forced to install.

And if people are that unhappy, leave already. Move to another platform and be done with it.

 

[tgp]

It depends what is in it. But it can certainly make the screen look way too busy. And this is what I have been told from android/ios users. Even reps at kiosks that sell phones. Other than that they usually do like the way my start looks. It should be an option and not something that is forced. I too would prefer to be able to set some folders static, others dynamic.

I actively use all OS's, so I compare them in real life scenarios. This is my opinion, that the WP screen is too busy. A WC member that used to be on here a lot who is a graphic designer talked about the grid of icons causing "brain freeze" due to too much information available. Well, to me, a WP start screen is the same, plus it has the tiles flipping. It's brain freeze on steroids!

I think the saving grace of both icons and tiles is that we soon learn exactly where everything is on our phones, and do not need to look for them. If I hand my Android phone to you as a WP user, you would say it is a confusing mess. OTOH, if I hand you as an Android user my Windows Phone, you would say it is a confusing mess. They are all confusing messes if we're not familiar with them. That is why I put little stock in our perception of organization as a UI feature. I'm more concerned with the number of taps/clicks to get somewhere.

Don't get me wrong; I love the looks, but in real life usage I find that it can be a bit overwhelming. Even though fans love the Live Tiles, I can certainly understand why the general public doesn't seem to go for them.

 

[Abdul Muhaymin Arif]

Windows 10 for mobile, in my opinion the RTM will work great on latest devices like 30,40,50 series, because I think it is developed considering the utilization of quad core processors. Currently I am running latest build in Lumia 925, it performs OK, sometimes frustrating, and sometimes great. (I was frustrated when my memory was full, and the OS was hanging like hell, Once I moved data, it is OK now). But I tried earlier builds in my Lumia 535, I was getting similar performance in a lower end model (not using 535, because of the f**in touch issues), so I think the latest build is great in Lumia 30,40 and 50 series. Can any one comment the performance in phones like Lumia 640,640xl,830,540,930,1520?

Also they are releasing Windows 10 Builds in wave right? Like 50 Series first, followed by 40, and then 30. I don't think Microsoft will waste time to optimize the OS for those dual core phones 3 years old, still will release OS update late. After all which operating system gives OS updates for 3 year old phones?

 

[johan sevenhant]

I personally think the UI looks fab with lots of changes compared to wp 8.1...IF you're completely new to it....so being no insider....otherwise the bit by bit part started being boring....but no offense...coz' to be honest the last months I tried android and ios but I kept going back to windows phone.....

 

[sai sandeep akula]

I Agree with ui doesn't bring customers, but compared to 8.1 doesn't does well (grey background and Cortana ui) but added great features to Cortana, windows insiders are still giving reviews and problem feedback, so better first satisfy fans of windows ecosystem, then release to public. Fews days left to decide.

 

[7a2eer]

I'd say that Android's UI is a clear and valid counter example. If an inconsistent and messy UI were actually the strong deterrent you suggest it is, then Android wouldn't dominate at over 80% market share, which it had reached long before even material design came along.

if-thens don't change the fact that Android sells. On Android Central people argue about icons, animations, etc. We know at least Android enthusiasts care about consistency.

1 - W10M is not consistent
2 - W10M does not have all mainstream apps
3 - W10M lacks support
........
Bonus: Lumia 950 looks like a dog **** that baked under the California sun for too long

Yeah, I'd say there's at least one less reason to consider a W10M phone.

 

[t0shibasz]

I don't understand how your analogy to the W10 start menu has anything to do with this.

I don't understand how you don't get the analogy. For all basic functions on the phones people are "accommodated" to find them on the bottom on the UI. Habit from other OS's, that are longer on the market. The same was with start button. Except the habit was from previous W desktops. Sorry, my english is not so good, and I can not explain good.

I don't understand how your analogy to the W10 start menu has anything to do with this.
I can't imagine a strategy more flawed than that (which is also why that's not actually what MS is thinking).

And thats why they stand where they are

 

[Peelay77]

Running on a L830 and I have to say no, it won't be "final" or at least what I would consider "final". However if you look at the state Win10 was in when it was released, it was similar. I think MS has changed their view of what "good" is and lowered the bar on releasing bug free software (or as close as is reasonably possible). A phone is different than a desktop computer though, I think the tolerance for bugs is far less, when it comes to a phone you want it to just work. Overall I think it's come a long way and is showing promise but there are sooo many little issues that show a true lack of polish. Some of the things that drive me nuts are:

Outlook constantly telling me my account settings are out of date when they aren't (and I run six O365 Exchange accounts and I get them regularly for each account).

Notifications don't always work and being notified is obviously important.

Live tiles don' t get updated correctly (i.e. go in and read your emails then back to start screen to go to another account and tile badge still shows same number of unread emails). At the moment they should just be called Tiles, not Live Tiles as they're pretty "dead" at the moment.

Open an existing txt message conversation and the keyboard covers the most recent message and input field, you first have to hit the back button before you can click in the "type a message field" to bring up the keyboard again with recent message now visible.

I can open and Excel file stored on OneDrive if I go to Excel and open but if I go to OneDrive first and try to open it doesn't work.

The removal of the unified inbox from 8.1 is a HUGE mistake, really not sure what genious over at MS thinks this is an improvement

Then there's the App Gap, this still has a long way to go and false promises about 3rd parties creating apps that never materialize doesn't cut it.

I still hold out hope that they wont' give up on the OS but I think for mass consumer appeal it has a way to go still, at current rate I'd say at least another 6 months.

 

[nubbikins]

I'm somewhat with you there, but I don't agree that it is a killer. I love the new UI as it's developing but there is a TON of inconsistency everywhere. Sometimes the setting you're looking for is in a hamburger menu, sometimes it's in an ellipsis menu, sometimes it's in a pivot menu. Half the time I can't figure out where the "settings menu" is for an app. That's really the only thing that really irks me about the UI. Put things in a similar place so people can find them easily!

Example: settings for Edge and Photos is in the ellipsis menu, settings for Outlook and One Drive is in the hamburger menu (One Drive used to be in the ellipsis menu).

Other design inconsistencies I can live with but could make or break it for others:
1. Menu, header and background colors. Some menus are dark gray, others are light gray, some adhere to the color scheme, then some don't adhere to the selected color scheme at all.
2. Text sizes. Some menus have large text, while others have small text.

I have faith that they will fix many things in the future though. Hopefully sooner than later.

 

[jdawgnoonan]

I am typing on an LG G4. I also have a Lumia 920 running the latest build of 10. Android has felt far better and polished than WM10 currently does since roughly late 2011.

 

[John M Beauchemin]

This is my opinion, that the WP screen is too busy. A WC member that used to be on here a lot who is a graphic designer talked about the grid of icons causing "brain freeze" due to too much information available.

Yeah but... you can make them all as large or small as you want. If your tiles are causing brain freeze (like my iPhone does with the wall o' folders... where is that app I'm looking for?!?!), then that person can easily make the UI simpler to look at with some reorganization/resizing. Nice thing too is that deleting tiles you don't use from the main UI does not uninstall the program. I like that, it appeals to me much more than icon-grid overload and seems much less confusing (in theory, I don't actually have a Windows Phone yet).

 

[Spectrum90]

Example: settings for Edge and Photos is in the ellipsis menu, settings for Outlook and One Drive is in the hamburger menu (One Drive used to be in the ellipsis menu).

The preferred location for settings is the hamburger menu, but if an app is not feature rich enough to need an hamburger menu, then settings should be added to the ellipsis menu.

You can't add an hamburger menu to an app just to increase consistency, that would be stupid.
There a few design patterns that all designers use to solve common UI problems. Different apps will use different combinations of these patterns according to their needs.

WP8.1 was more like a feature phone, so it was easier to force a few UI patterns to all of the feature lacking apps. However, the user experience in 8.1 was awful and It was the main reason why people weren't buying the phones according to MS data.

 

[bpcooper14]

I've read through some (but not all) of this thread and here are a few of my quick, unscientific thoughts from my point of view.
When my family is looking for a new device, typically for the "younger" ones of the family, the first thing that influences their decision is that it's the shiny new toy that all of their friends have/are getting. The next thing the "younger" family members make sure of is functionality. By this I don't mean multitasking, ability to stream from the home media server, etc. I mean "does it have the apps I need" to stay up with all my peers/friends. Let's face it, snapchat, instagram, periscope, and whatever the next new social networking craze is going to be have not (for the most part) made it into the windows world yet. If they can't communicate with their friends that way, then the platform is DOA. One of my kids actually liked 8.1 but had to have an iphone because it was familiar and had all the ways to stay in touch with her friends.
Now, for me, I'm always trying to give something new a try just to have an informed decision one way or the other if I'm able to utilize in under real world scenarios to be able to accomplish all that I want it to do. I currently use a OnePlus One as my phone of choice. I've tried apple (didn't like the simplicity) and wp8.1 (still rock a 520 on occasion when I am doing something that might put the OPO in harms way). Personally, I avoid the social networking crap like the plague. Want to know something about my life? Use the phone like a PHONE and call me. :smile:
I think that unless there is a way for an upcoming w10 phone to become the "new shiny toy" that leads to overwhelming adoption, it will be relegated to the "Blackberry niche" type of market no matter how good of a value, investment, OS, etc. it is. Like I said, these are just random, unscientific, no basis for my opinion types of ramblings and opinions. I HOPE that the OS takes off and does everything that we all hope it will in the future.

 

[tgp]

(like my iPhone does with the wall o' folders... where the is that app I'm looking for?!?!)

The iPhone is a whole different ball game! It doesn't have an app drawer, and you cannot place the icons where you wish on the page, other than shuffle them around. I was mainly referring to Android.

That said, like has been already said, I don't think that UI is all that important to device sales. All current smartphone OS's have a "good enough" UI. It seems that consumers are not using that as a catalyst for their decision.

 

[mmcpher]

If we're waiting for every potential user's idiosyncratic color palette to be adopted, we'll never get there. The builds have been usable as daily drivers for months, while issues and bugs have been systematically narrowed. Very few of the successive builds were a step back, which suggests an encouraging level of control on the process by Microsoft. So I vote "Yes", it's ready. There are still bugs that need to be stomped out and features to be added, but if all you do is go halfway home, you never get there.

Windows 10 is supposed to be all about continual updating anyway, so if you're gonna shoot, shoot, don't talk already. The current build is close enough forme to worry that when I finally get my 950 XL with RTM on board, it will be something of a letdown because I've already had most of the features.