MS says W10M is ready, I call that BS

[BluetoothFairy1]

After running on latest W10M fast ring build for a few weeks, I've given up and went back to Denim and will stay on it for foreseeable future until these things are addressed (the list is in fact much longer).
- Cortana doesn't work - live tile is not live and clicking on anything in Cortana results in no response
- Native app stability - News app keeps repeatedly crashing, same goes for dropped calls and native camera app and OneDrive syncing issues.
- Motion data stopped working altogether and half the Extras in Settings do not work at all
- Unable to save PDFs in Office Lens - it keeps crashing
- App compatibility - LINE has issues and crashes, Adidas Train & Run app is not W10M ready and there are others
- Skype messaging app does not notify of incoming calls on my Lumia, yet it rings on my laptop

All of the issues above could be considered teething problems and surely will be fixed in a couple of future releases, except the last one, which I see as the biggest and most important one - app compatibility.

There are apps, which are not W10M ready and won't install. Unless the devs decide to make them UWA, I am remaining on Denim.
Lack of apps will be W10M downfall, same as it has been for WM8.
It's not the UI or UX (both of which are improvements over 8.1 in my opinion.
Nor is it hardware. I run 635 and for the sub $80 price, there is none better I could find

It's all about apps for W10M in general, or lack thereof. That is a massive black hole they have not plugged up. It was bad in 8.1 and now with 10, it has gotten even worse. This may take years to stop being an issue.

Will keep waiting...

 

[uselessrobot]

Remember back in the summer when people were saying the same things about Windows 10 and it turned out to actually be quite good? I'm hoping the same thing happens again with the mobile version.

That said, I do think that the home screen is far too cluttered. I'd love a setting that let me swatch back to the WP8 2-column mode.

 

[Darren Walsh]

Remember back in the summer when people were saying the same things about Windows 10 and it turned out to actually be quite good? I'm hoping the same thing happens again with the mobile version.

That said, I do think that the home screen is far too cluttered. I'd love a setting that let me swatch back to the WP8 2-column mode.

You can do that, I have done it on my 930

 

[Steve Thackery]

The current UI is a mess. That's a fact. It's unfinished. But the average new user will not leave the platform for a inconsistent UI. Neither on a theoretical level "This UI is such a mess! I regret this purchase!" because it's not that bad, nor on a practical level "This UI is such a Mess! I'm leaving!" because who really buys a new phone (or even returns it) for a inconsistent OS. The people that will suffer most under this are we. Thanks Microsoft!

Just to say that I'm one who has reverted to WP8.1 for exactly that reason: the W10M UI is a mess. Not only is it a mess, but even when it's been cleaned up it will still be inferior (in my opinion) to WP8.1 because Microsoft has deliberately abandoned most of the WP8.1 design language in order to make it easier for developers to port Android and iOS apps to W10M.

The end result is and OS that looks awfully like Android, but with a layer of live tiles sitting on top. That doesn't appeal to me AT ALL.

 

[Steve Thackery]

I really like the minimal design, lack of chrome and iconography. I like the large segoe font pivot headers.

<snip>

........I come back to my primary phone on Windows Phone 8.1 and I realize the worth of it, I realize how beautiful it looks, and I realize it will be gone with the next update. Replaced by shades of dark and light grey in headers that don't even extend to the status bar, uppercase header font that just misses out on the beauty of Segoe, zebra strips songs and downloads list, ellipses bar and menu having different shades and proportions, borders around context menus and notification flysouts, and just the shades of dark and light grey in them instead of pure dark and light theme just make me go nuts. Then there is lack of alternative pivot navigation to hamburger items. They have stripped the file explorer of showing storage taken and remaining storage. Sense apps haven't been improved. Live tile functionality hasn't been enhanced. Then there is people tile and app with ridiculous circular avatars and full accent colour for contact badge and accented header and ellipses in hub page with theme background in cards and status bar.

<snip>

Bye bye modern design 1.0. You will be missed.

This expresses my view perfectly. It's a MASSIVE disappointment that Microsoft have deliberately thrown away all that wonderful UI innovation we had in WP8.1.

 

[Spectrum90]

That just goes to show that MS' data people have amnesia or brain damage. Probably both. The reason people weren't buying WPs was because of the poor selection of major apps and overall incompetence of MS to make people aware of the platform.

Saying it was the UI's fault is like blaming the lack of car sales on the gear shift and the floor mats.

That data is taken surveying people that tried the product and didn't like it. The main problem reported was that the phone is hard to use. So, I guess the priority for W10M was to improve the poor user experience and they did a pretty good job.

Most smartphone users don't need many apps. WP's app selection is good enough for hundreds of millions of people.

 

[Steve Thackery]

Funny how when wp 8/8.1 first came out everyone on this board was whining how crappy it was and looked.

I don't think they were. Some, maybe, but not "everyone". Maybe they did with WP7.5, I can't recall. I do recall the complaints about WP8 being incompatible with most WP7.x phones, due to hardware differences.

But UI complaints from "everyone" for WP8.1? Naaah, I don't remember that. Got some links?

 

[wpcautobot]

I agree with you on this. I initially didn't like the UI, but it's getting there and starting to really like it. Lots of work is needed, but I think they will get there. I, too, really dislike the inconsistent settings areas. Also, sometimes hamburger button slides a nice menu from the left and there is a picture of you, and a gear for settings, other times it's somewhere else, sometimes feedback is right in the menu, sometimes it's somewhere else. Sometimes feedback opens feedback app, sometimes you type it right in the app, sometimes it opens a web page that doesn't really allow feedback (MS Health app).

My biggest issues is this.... The text entry, selection, and manipulation. They must nail this to get traction with the OS. Never should a field that you are typing in be covered up, unless you explicitly pan the view yourself. A button on the keyboard (not sure which) should be able to be pressed and held for the view to zoom right to the cursor focus. Lastly, the stick pointer idea I love, but I want it to gave haptic feedback, without also making each key press have haptic feedback.

Thanks... So excited for 950XL!!!!!

San Jose, CA here on a dying 830

 

[JBG1952]

I have been using WP 10 as my daily driver for months now. In the beginning it was a bit rough, but each successive build has improved. Granted I am not a teenager but as I use the phone in the "wild" I find more and more people fascinated with the operating system and interface. My business associates and friends are particularly taken by the fact that I can alter a Word, PP or Excel file on my phone and it shows up revised on my laptop, office desk top or home PC within minutes. They also like the fact that you can customize its appearance. Trust me I am not a techie and neither are my social circles, but my network is device agnostic and that raises eyebrows. By way of example, my tablet battery died during a flight and I could continue working on my phone. I spent several minutes explaining what was going on to the passenger next to me. They were impressed.
MS is on to something or Google would not have announced a similar program a few weeks ago. Do they have the latest wiz bang apps, no. However, once they have the ability to port Android or iOS to WP10, the entertainment app gap will disappear. From a functional app perspective MS is years ahead of everybody else. If you want to be entertained, download Netflix. I you want to be productive, use WP10.

 

[cpmcgrath]

Is Windows Mobile 10 perfect? Absolutely not. Does Windows Mobile do everything Windows Phone 8 could do at, at least the same quality? God no.
But is it ready? Yeah, I think it is.

Most importantly, it's solid and fast. If this wasn't true no matter what other arguments you made, it wouldn't be ready. So a big tick there.

The important question to ask is what do we get for upgrading from WP8? Unfortunately WP has been stagnant for a year. Microsoft has stopped caring about it, doesn't release updates for it, and doesn't upgrade their apps in any significant way.
WP8 had a mail app that really hadn't changed since WP7, and yeah, it feels very basic. W10's mail app is awesome, and it can (and will) be updated on its own without needing an OS update.
Skype on WP8 sucks. In W10 we get built in Skype and I'm sure we'll finally get a better Skype app too, while the WP8 Skype app will continue to be ignored.
And this is true with all the Microsoft apps - they'll continue to update them for W10, but will leave them how it is on WP8.

Then there's third party apps, there's no way they're going to invest in WP8, but they could in W10, especially with how easy it is to move convert Android apps to Windows 10.

To get developers to develop for Windows Mobile 10, they need people on it ASAP, to get consumers interested again they need flagship phones out yesterday.

I get that a lot of my points are "And they can update them" which for many (including me) translates to microsoft, "It sucks now, but we promise the next update will make it awesome" that we've had to put up with forever. But the reason to move to windows mobile 10 is to get away from a stagnant system, to a vibrant, living eco-system.

With all that said, they really need a few sprints where they just say, "What are the 2 dozen things that WP8 was awesome at which still looks awful in W10 and let's fix them up"

 

[seb_r]

It is superficial to blame "just" the UI. Some people like it, some don't. But it is obvious that it is not consistent at all - that what most whiners here complain about in android.
What means "ready" in the eyes of MSFT will remain a secret. But I would not wonder if it is just another cr*ppy build. Some users might praise it because we Insiders even used to have worse builds prior (you already forgot how smooth WP8.1 was compared to 10, right?).For me, personally, "ready" means that W10M have to have at least the same functionality, runtime, smoothness and stability as WP8.1 - and add some more of each. But not even that situation is in sight.
The less frequent release of new builds, the almost constant level of bugs/flaws/annoyances (1 step forward and 1 back again) and the delays make it obvious which "priority" W10M is having for MSFT.
The "app gap" has been discussed widely and it is fact: many apps missing and those that exist are not updated and often enough have poor quality and lack of functionality compared to their android or iOS counterpart. Hardware support another issue: how about USB-OTG? Ever tried to find a WP compatible smartwatch except Band or Pebble?
History repeats: with every new version of WP the fanboys claiming it willbe revolutionary and help WP to have great success - and that never happened and won't. With current startegy MSFT won't gain any significant amount of new WP users and even struggle to prevent the current users from switching (back) to android or iOS.
As the past has shown MSFT does not hesitate to stop support for platforms and devices that failed. See what happened to Windows RT. Same will happen to WP.
I really cannot understand why people sink their money in a 950/XL with the current situation.

 

[ScubaDog]

The UI in every way is better in WP8.1, as far as I'm concerned. So, there's no universe where I'd agree that W10M is ready. And, no, I don't believe he assumes everyone else feels the same way. I happen to feel the same way, and I'm darn angry that more people DON'T feel the same way. But Android and iOS lovers have spoken, and they clearly wanted Windows Phones to be more like those devices. So, those of us who hate W10 have only the choice of settling for a crappy OS and moving on or staying with what we have.

 

[ScubaDog]

Most importantly, it's solid and fast. If this wasn't tru no matter what other arguments you made, it wouldn't be ready

Solid and fast? Not anymore, it's not. W10M is NOW exactly like Android in the performance department. By that, I mean it completely depends on the hardware you have it on. WP7 and WP8 did NOT depend on the hardware, and ran great on everything. I've been testing this disgusting W10 on a Lumia 635 and 640. It runs the worst on the 635 and is BARELY acceptable on the 640. Cortana is a completely loss on both devices, and there is no smoothness in any of the operation of apps and screens. Oh, sure, I'll just bet it runs quite well on a 6-core or 8-core machine with loads of RAM. Welcome to Android's world.

As for Skype, as bad as it is on WP8, its worse on W10. This weird, nonsensical quasi-integration they've cooked up doesn't even function correctly, nor does it do so intuitively.

I do not believe anything that us diehards love about WP8 will ever be made right on W10---if Microsoft even keeps them at all. I don't think they care. This is CERTAINLY true of W10 on the desktop/tablet. More so, in fact.

 

[HinoMusouka]

Ok, so my first question is - why is some criticism already described here as being "a hater"? One can't criticise anymore? Or how can I criticise not to be "a hater"?

Secondly, everything in heaven and on earth points to 10586 being the "final" build, and there will be no 3-month testing as we know Orange Poland has scheduled its release of W10M for first weeks of 2016, which means about 5 weeks between RTM and RTW top. And Microsoft will not make any absolutely fabulous progress within the next 1-2 weeks or less which I assume are left for RTM (providing that 10586 is RC and makes into RTM). Personally, I find hardly any new functionality useful to me. If you do, that's great for you - I am just not impressed.

Neither is Mobile division of my company. We provide some kinds of services to business and only iOS and Android matters. Well, Blackberry mattered but not anymore. We never had WP app and probably never will. That's ok, our customers paying up to a few millions of dollars for the solutions we produce never really ask for WP, they are fine with iOS and Android, but the latter one is rather just "fun to have" and our customers don't seem to carry too much if we didn't have Android version.

And UI doesn't count for users? Are you kidding me? How else does a user interact with the OS? And again, for me, this interaction has become more painful due to the introduction of the hamburger menu. I will get used to it, just as I got to Windows 8 start screen, but for what purpose? Just to see it widely scrapped 2 years later?

I just find it silly to have the mobile OS re-written time and time again. We are not getting anything mind-blowing, just another rewrite. And how Windows treats e.g. music is still poor, I still have to carry my old iPod, because what I got with WP8/8.1 and W10 is just not cut to my convenient use of this feature.

On a positive side, I like the refreshed lock screen and start screen. And then this "greyness" which some people see as harmless, while others can't stand it. I personally don't mind it much, but I feel this could have been designed much more lively, to befit the lock&start screens.

Rather than expressing hate I want to express my utmost disappointment. I wanted Microsoft to succeed. I bought WP8 phones to whole my family and looked forward to the developments. But Android and iOS are far in the vanguard, while Microsoft lacks behind. Android can look pretty every way you want it to, while iOS runs every app you can imagine. I just don't see W10M getting users to switch. I will be switching to iOS next year. I want my music app to be sensible, I want my battery life (3h of Internet or 6h of music on my Lumia 930/WP8.1 and were done - really?), I want app choice. (Yes, do bid me goodbye as I'm sure some of you will do.) I want to get into a shopping centre and make my phone guide me, the same goes for museums and many other places.

I am so extremely sad this endeavour fails so miserably (again - in my eyes - for some of you it might be success beyond measure); I just see no vision and hardly any value. UWP is a bet that I just don't see taking on with the developers, who are rather dropping support for WP and even if they get to Windows Store on desktop, why would they care to make app for 1 or 2% of the market?

I just wished that I were surprised with how W10M unwinds, but to answer the question of this thread – no this will not be ready on the RTM day as it should be. I don't mind being dead wrong. I'd rather be - for the sake of all us, Windows Mobile enthusiasts (some just much more discouraged than others).

 

[PhineasTD]

One of the great battles that Microsoft is currently engaged in is a slew of multiple versions of their software across all manner of PC's, phones, tablets, servers, ect. People still run Windows XP, Windows Mobile 7.5, Win Server '08...it goes on and on and on. Imagine them being contracted to support companies that bought that old software and expect it to run through a ten year contract??

Enter Windows 10. The basis behind its inception was brilliant, albeit poorly executed. Window s10 is Microsofts attempt to get ALL device (or as many as possible) back onto the same page. Cortana isn't important, neither are the apps, from the corporate stand point. Free Windows 10 upgrades on PC and this now sudden push for W10M is about a uniform software that will be easier to address, support, and evolve. This is why iOS and Android both avoid the snags Microsoft is facing. iOS user cannot revert back to a previous version and Mac users typically don't want too. This Allows Apple to stay focused on the relevant and keep an OS that requires little thought process to use up and running smooth.

Microsoft is playing catch-up in the software department and Windows 10 is going to have to run like Forrest Gump while we put up with its errors-before-accomplishments execution.

 

[EspHack]

Remember back in the summer when people were saying the same things about Windows 10 and it turned out to actually be quite good? I'm hoping the same thing happens again with the mobile version.

on desktop that OS is already finished in general terms since a long time ago, and you can avoid all the new stuff pretty easily, there are even tools which make it work like w7 or 8 with just what you like being present

on mobile though.. if you don't like the skype app you are.. well... lets say we better PRAY they can make w10m usable before this year ends

 

[ODwyerPW]

You know, everyone that I show my Lumia 1520 with Windows10Mobile is just blown away by how nice it looks. They love the tiles. They love the apps. So, first impression is very good.

It's when you begin to use it that you get a little frustrated that things don't work. (Why doesn't swiping behave the same in the Messenger, Phone and Outlook Mail clients... that is very annoying). Why does the Photos app seem to reorder things all of the time... where did the folders go... (how come sometimes I can find a WhatsApp folder with fotos and sometimes I can't..). For me, that's the frustrating part... Gestures and UI aren't even consistent among Microsoft's own built-in phone apps.

So, I can see folks being WOWED! in the beginning, and then ready to turn the device back into AT&T (and whoever) a few weeks later.

I like Windows Phone and I have all of the apps I need. But I know the market is much more fickle than I am and will be intolerant of some of it..

 

[kangeles]

Hi,

I whole-heartedly disagree. If the RTM build is anything like the recent most build, I'll think it will be just fine. This is my experience and view based on my family's use of W10TP on daily drivers Lumia 640, Lumia 830 (x2).

Clearly, many people are having problems with this and prior builds, so I do hope those issues get sorted; but on the whole the experience is smooth and stable. In fact, I don't think I have any major issues except for the occasional bluetooth wonkiness.

Cheers!

 

[daniel cooper2]

Nobody likes the truth Microsoft should be embarrassed of how long it took to come this far on w10m. Apple crushes MS when it comes to bringing out a new OS. Pickup a iPhone 6s and how finished iOS 9 feels. Look at the new features they added. Look at all the apps they have. I'm a Microsoft phone ****** but I swear Microsoft has their B team working on mobile. New flagship phones are about to drop with half baked OS on it. WOW.

 

[SonOfDad]

Microsoft is playing catch-up in the software department and Windows 10 is going to have to run like Forrest Gump

It needs to stop swaggering like a cheap drunk pretty soon then.