MSFT Considering Android Apps For Windows Phones.

[a5cent]

Yes, businesses and devs understand the need for a quality/optimized app. To me, it sounds like you expect that understanding to always win out over the need to minimize development costs. I'm sceptical that you've picked the winning side. Not because quality isn't important, but because the battle for "most popular app" just isn't fought on WP. That battle is fought on Android and iOS. Your WP users will eventually switch to whatever app won the popularity contest on iOS and Android, so that is where devs will invest their limited time and money. If the WP port is a little shabby doesn't really matter.

That is how I expect this to play out, at least if what we've heard so far are the extents of MS' plan... that is why I'd like to hear more.

 

[msxbox]

I don't think that is the case as we have popularity contests on the Windows Phone Platform too and some of the Apps on this platform Win Awards too and monetary prizes, our platform is unique, well designed, very efficient/fast in comparison to IOS/Android for many reasons, the dedicated developers on WP are up there with the best of other platforms too.. There are also apps that have been requested by users of the other platforms that have been built from the ground up on WP the quality on the platform is high....
its late here there is one quick link that may show that our platform has great potential for all devs/companies, if anyone can help link some other success stories please do otherwise i will work on it more tomorrow (UK), Hill Climb Racing ?€“ A Monetization Success there are I am sure a lot more success stories I will look again tommorow

http://blog.dvlup.com/2013/12/18/get-inspired-amazing-windows-phone-indie-game-success-stories/

http://blogs.windows.com/windows_ph...-to-test-common-in-app-failure-scenarios.aspx

http://blogs.windows.com/windows_ph...own-words-eddie-kezeli-proshot-developer.aspx

http://blogs.windows.com/windows_ph...s-across-windows-store-and-windows-phone.aspx

http://blogs.windows.com/windows_ph...d-success-for-veteran-game-studio-10tons.aspx

http://blogs.windows.com/windows_ph...performs-iphone-for-indie-game-developer.aspx

http://blogs.windows.com/windows_ph...y-improved-payout-and-dev-center-updates.aspx

http://www.windowscentral.com/taptitude-developer-talks-about-success-and-windows-phone-platform

http://wmpoweruser.com/microsoft-ad...sful-windows-phone-marketplace-success-story/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ro2N0AdlqqI (Evernote)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfeBY5_oowY&list=PLD0FA5192497567F6&feature=c4-overview-vl (Nextwave Multimedia)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fIffP-2HjM&list=PLD0FA5192497567F6&feature=c4-overview-vl (Artifex Mundi)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNtPv8W7Bf0&list=PLD0FA5192497567F6&feature=c4-overview-vl (Game Insight)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlE-TBwEY0k&feature=c4-overview-vl&list=PLD0FA5192497567F6 (Coltran Studio)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6ZvrL_1twY&list=PLD0FA5192497567F6&feature=c4-overview-vl (Rudy Huyn)

more success story videos here http://www.youtube.com/user/nokiadevforum?feature=watch

Some of the stories above are more than a year old so the download figures and amount of money each of these Windows Phone Devs/Companies have made will be way more than in the articles perhaps someone knows more accurate upto date data...

also if you have a project that needs funding this may help
http://www.appcampus.fi/

sorry just added a few extra articles from just having a quick look on the web...I have seen even more success stories, the amounts of money to be made on Windows Phone is impressive with a user base of 50 million+ from before Dec 2013 and rising rapidly, imagine how much money can be made once the userbase overtakes IOS (we have already overtaken Iphone in over 24 countries)

 

[a5cent]

Obviously there are some very good apps for WP. I'm not denying that. On the other hand, the existence of some 1st class apps doesn't change the fact that a lot of WP apps lack the features and/or polish of their counterparts on iOS and Android. It's this large "middle-class" of apps where WP is trailing. These are also the apps I think are most likely to be affected, not to mention the apps that have yet to enter the WP ecosystem because their devs don't yet see the potential. I imagine even some great apps would probably never have been released in native WP form. Think of some of Rudy Huyn's apps, and what might have been different had WP been supplied with a quick/dirty/cheap Android port of the official app early on.

 

[anony_mouse]

Yes. And? That makes this thread exactly about all the open questions in both of our comments...

Will Android ports be tweaked for WP?
Will Android ports include any WP specific enhancements?

As I've said many times in this thread - apps will likely need porting (or tweaking, if you prefer) to run on WP/Android. And in any likely scenario, Microsoft will control what apps are available, so can *enforce*, for example, design guidelines as they can for WP 'native' apps.

Will developing native WP apps make any sense at all, when it is far cheaper to port the Android version?

Given the above, why would it matter whether apps where 'native' WP or WP/Android?

Will developers choose to remove their native WP apps from the marketplace and replace them with direct Android ports instead? If so, how many developers would do that, and which ones?

Given the above, why would it matter whether apps where 'native' WP or WP/Android? The final question is clearly impossible to answer at this stage.

 

[msxbox]

Excellent News.. Just in by Daniel Rubino

?€˜Open for business?€™ ?€“ Microsoft gives reference design for Windows Phone, announces new OEMs | Windows Phone Central

Windows Phone is Here to stay

Design Apps from the ground up on WP and reap the rewards...

 

[a5cent]

As I've said many times in this thread - apps will likely need porting (or tweaking, if you prefer) to run on WP/Android. And in any likely scenario, Microsoft will control what apps are available, so can *enforce*, for example, design guidelines as they can for WP 'native' apps.

You are speculating, and your assumptions are not ones I'm willing to make.

While it is true that WP apps are tested before being published to the WP store, that has always been, for the most part, an automated process. The level of automation is soon to reach 100%. In other words, there is nobody at MS who rejects apps if they fail to conform to "modern" UI design guidelines.

The UI consistency we enjoy on WP exists not because of the app testing process, but because of WP's "consistency-enforcing" UI APIs. These APIs do not exist on Android. MS could replicate them and mandate their use, but that would again make it very costly to port apps. This defeats the whole point of Android compatibility and thus makes little sense. I don't see how to enforce what you think should be enforceable, without being self defeating or cost prohibitive.

Given the above, why would it matter whether apps where 'native' WP or WP/Android?

I admit it wouldn't. I just doubt that the above is 'given'.

IMHO, to decide if this is a good idea or a terrible idea, requires a lot more information than we currently have.

 

[anony_mouse]

You are speculating, and your assumptions are not ones I'm willing to make.

Well, this whole thread is speculation. I am assuming that Microsoft would not simply adopt the Google Play store, and therefore would control what WP/Android apps were used. We could debate whether that's a good assumption.

While it is true that WP apps are tested before being published to the WP store, that has always been, for the most part, an automated process. The level of automation is soon to reach 100%. In other words, there is nobody at MS who rejects apps if they fail to conform to "modern" UI design guidelines.

The UI consistency we enjoy on WP exists not because of the app testing process, but because of WP's "consistency-enforcing" UI APIs. These APIs do not exist on Android. MS could replicate them and mandate their use, but that would again make it very costly to port apps. This defeats the whole point of Android compatibility and thus makes little sense. I don't see how to enforce what you think should be enforceable, without being self defeating or cost prohibitive.

It will depend on what priorities Microsoft set and how they want to go about doing this. If WP/Android is just to fill in some gaps, it might be feasible. In the end, there will be a trade off between more consistency, and getting fewer apps, and less consistency and making it easier to port apps. It would be interesting to know what people in general prefer. I don't mean people like us, but people who are potential WP buyers.

I admit it wouldn't. I just doubt that the above is 'given'.

IMHO, to decide if this is a good idea or a terrible idea, requires a lot more information than we currently have.

We are certainly extrapolating a great deal from a rumour! Probably much more than is justified.

BTW, for the record I still think it is very unlikely that Microsoft will add an Android runtime to WP.

 

[canadian1der]

Lots of speculation on this thread, though it is a credible rumor based on the sources that have published it. We really don't have enough information to know what this would look like, how it would work, or if it would be beneficial or disastrous. Since we are all speculating though, I'll add my two cents below.

What I think might be a fairly strong possibility is that Windows Phone will simply support apps written in Java, aka the language that most Android apps are written in. It would probably be similar to how Windows Phone already supports apps written in HTLM5/JS, C#, C++, etc. It might not mean literally opening and running the .APK on WP8.X, but instead Windows Phone officially supporting a coding language that a lot of mobile developers, ie Android developers, are familiar with.

It could be a way to make the platform more appealing to developers who haven't looked at Windows Phone before due to coding preferences and familiarity with using Java. I think one of the biggest hurdles for Microsoft right now is that the other platforms have a head start with app development and Microsoft's development tech has seen a decline in popularity recently. If they added support for a popular coding language it could be a boost for interest. It would also maintain the integrity of the Windows Phone ecosystem, since it wouldn't mean that "native" Windows Phone apps would be shoved aside for Android ports, but only that they would be adding more options for app development.

 

[msxbox]

on a side note i just added some more success stories in one of my earlier posts in this thread here's a link or just search back on this page higher up, http://forums.windowscentral.com/ge...s-windows-phones-post2368380.html#post2368380

canadian1der, I agree that adding more support for extra programming languages could be a good idea, but as it stands things are improving quite quickly, maybe i think by the end of the year we will have landed some more big apps possibly even around build in April, if not then I agree fully that extra language support for Devs to create on Windows Phone is important to success (my own view), we need a WP Dev's view on this really, like everyone says a lot of this discussion is speculation....

 

[rodan01]

Lots of speculation on this thread, though it is a credible rumor based on the sources that have published it. We really don't have enough information to know what this would look like, how it would work, or if it would be beneficial or disastrous. Since we are all speculating though, I'll add my two cents below.

What I think might be a fairly strong possibility is that Windows Phone will simply support apps written in Java, aka the language that most Android apps are written in. It would probably be similar to how Windows Phone already supports apps written in HTLM5/JS, C#, C++, etc. It might not mean literally opening and running the .APK on WP8.X, but instead Windows Phone officially supporting a coding language that a lot of mobile developers, ie Android developers, are familiar with.

It could be a way to make the platform more appealing to developers who haven't looked at Windows Phone before due to coding preferences and familiarity with using Java. I think one of the biggest hurdles for Microsoft right now is that the other platforms have a head start with app development and Microsoft's development tech has seen a decline in popularity recently. If they added support for a popular coding language it could be a boost for interest. It would also maintain the integrity of the Windows Phone ecosystem, since it wouldn't mean that "native" Windows Phone apps would be shoved aside for Android ports, but only that they would be adding more options for app development.

The efforts to "maintain the integrity of the platform" are vain for Windows Phone. If the OSs proliferate the incentives for the adoption of cross platform technologies increase and integrity is destroyed in all the platforms. If there is a consolidation in just one or two big platforms, native apps become viable for more use cases, but you could find the integrity only on Android and iOS, WP would be dead.

In the short term some OSs are using the Android SDK as the cross platform tech because HTML5 is still immature, probably in 2014 more than 50% of the Android compatible devices won't use GMS. In the long term HTML5 should be the cross platform tech.

So, if WP survives integrity is an impossible scenario. Microsoft, just bring us the Android apps we need before WP dies.

 

[k0de]

The efforts to "maintain the integrity of the platform" are vain for Windows Phone. If the OSs proliferate the incentives for the adoption of cross platform technologies increase and integrity is destroyed in all the platforms. If there is a consolidation in just one or two big platforms, native apps become viable for more use cases, but you could find the integrity only on Android and iOS, WP would be dead.

In the short term some OSs are using the Android SDK as the cross platform tech because HTML5 is still immature, probably in 2014 more than 50% of the Android compatible devices won't use GMS. In the long term HTML5 should be the cross platform tech.

So, if WP survives integrity is an impossible scenario. Microsoft, just bring us the Android apps we need before WP dies.

Yes that was plan B. It already started. Yuck.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oUCEN-XvC7g&feature=player_embedded

 

[ShreyansShah]

"Always will be" - that's quite a significant claim. Evidence please.



Then don't install any.

i dont understand why u need more evidence for MSFT products being better, after living in a world built up on Windows.
there are other OSs and products competing with MSFT products, but cant replace it fully.
that's what it meant.
i remember a comment read long ago (or it might be a fake argument posing someone else)
it was like Google arguing MSFT.
Google is saying i am dominating the Internet, u r nowhere and u will be nowhere in the future.
Microsoft's Reply was, "cool down buddy. the waves u r riding on are created by me. without me, there would not have been internet, there will be 90% less revenue to you, and u will be lost, where google cannot find u."
i think its true, as 80-90 % of Non-windows users, use other OSs, because it's free.
Same thing is true with Android. the main reason android grown this much, is because its free. (another reason is wrong policies of Symbian foundation, which died own death).

 

[Markham Ranja]

i dont understand why u need more evidence for MSFT products being better, after living in a world built up on Windows.
there are other OSs and products competing with MSFT products, but cant replace it fully.
that's what it meant.
i remember a comment read long ago (or it might be a fake argument posing someone else)
it was like Google arguing MSFT.
Google is saying i am dominating the Internet, u r nowhere and u will be nowhere in the future.
Microsoft's Reply was, "cool down buddy. the waves u r riding on are created by me. without me, there would not have been internet, there will be 90% less revenue to you, and u will be lost, where google cannot find u."
i think its true, as 80-90 % of Non-windows users, use other OSs, because it's free.
Same thing is true with Android. the main reason android grown this much, is because its free. (another reason is wrong policies of Symbian foundation, which died own death).

What nonsense. Then that would mean MSFT is building on the work done by Apple, with the Mac II (world's first popular GUI) which in itself came out of Engelbart's work at the Xerox Palo Alto Research Center (the entire concept of a WIMP graphical interface with icons and a pointing device came from them). The entire electronic revolution came about with Shockley's invention of the transistor at Bell Labs. If you go back even further, look at Turing's work which was paid for by the British government in efforts to break the Axis Powers' encryption. Therefore, everything that happens with technology today is thanks to Adolf Hitler.

 

[anony_mouse]

i dont understand why u need more evidence for MSFT products being better, after living in a world built up on Windows.

I wasn't asking for evidence that Microsoft's products are "better". That is largely a matter of opinion. I was asking for evidence to support the claim (make by k0de, if I remember correctly), that "MSFT products are and will always be the best that computing can offer." (my emphasis). Unless Ms/Mr k0de has a time machine, I'm not sure how she/he can make that claim, so I'm curious to know what the foundation for it is.

 

[k0de]

I wasn't asking for evidence that Microsoft's products are "better". That is largely a matter of opinion. I was asking for evidence to support the claim (make by k0de, if I remember correctly), that "MSFT products are and will always be the best that computing can offer." (my emphasis). Unless Ms/Mr k0de has a time machine, I'm not sure how she/he can make that claim, so I'm curious to know what the foundation for it is.

On the time machine now making my way back to you from the year 3014, Lol.

Absolutely I agree with you 100%. It is a matter of opinion. And yes that is exactly how I feel.

 

[bilzkh]

A thought... what if this plan only applied to games on Android? From what I understand, a lot of the 'fad apps' happen to be games such as Candy Crush. What if Microsoft focused this project to making it easy for developers to push the latest games to Windows Phone with little effort and cost?

 

[a5cent]

A thought... what if this plan only applied to games on Android? From what I understand, a lot of the 'fad apps' happen to be games such as Candy Crush. What if Microsoft focused this project to making it easy for developers to push the latest games to Windows Phone with little effort and cost?

Most games are developed using a cross platform game engine, like Unity. That is how the same game ends up running on both iOS and Android. As a result, making a Unity based version for WP isn't that big of a deal, so this would really only be helpful for games that don't use such an engine. I don't know how big that subset is, but my guess is it is very small...

Certainly possible, I just doubt that is actually of much help...

 

[anony_mouse]

Most games are developed using a cross platform game engine, like Unity. That is how the same game ends up running on both iOS and Android. As a result, making a Unity based version for WP isn't that big of a deal, so this would really only be helpful for games that don't use such an engine. I don't know how big that subset is, but my guess is it is very small...

Certainly possible, I just doubt that is actually of much help...

That is a very good point. If important Unity games are not appearing on WP, Microsoft need to look at why that is. I guess there is still effort needed to test and optimise the game for WP, and perhaps some porting if iOS/Android specific APIs are used (I assume Unity offers some access to these), but it should already be relatively small.

 

[Markham Ranja]

Most games are developed using a cross platform game engine, like Unity. That is how the same game ends up running on both iOS and Android. As a result, making a Unity based version for WP isn't that big of a deal, so this would really only be helpful for games that don't use such an engine. I don't know how big that subset is, but my guess is it is very small...

Certainly possible, I just doubt that is actually of much help...

It is a very big deal because iOS and Android use OpenGL ES for their 3D rendering, which is a common and well-understood framework among mobile game developers. However, with WP, MS decided to use DirectX 11, for reasons only known to Belfiore. For this reason, porting games from iOS or Android to WP is rather difficult. Also, DX11 is the same framework used by major AAA game studios to develop their Windows games, so most of the people with this skill are involved in developing full-fledged desktop games. There is little talent left over for WP.

This is why Unity does not support WP as yet.

 

[anony_mouse]

It is a very big deal because iOS and Android use OpenGL ES for their 3D rendering, which is a common and well-understood framework among mobile game developers. However, with WP, MS decided to use DirectX 11, for reasons only known to Belfiore. For this reason, porting games from iOS or Android to WP is rather difficult. Also, DX11 is the same framework used by major AAA game studios to develop their Windows games, so most of the people with this skill are involved in developing full-fledged desktop games. There is little talent left over for WP.

This is why Unity does not support WP as yet.

Thanks - that's a useful clarification. I guess it would take a lot of effort for Microsoft to add OpenGL ES support to WP, even though I assume the underlying hardware can support it?