True but at least provide the option for an SDK for people that do want to make an app from scratch
My hypothesis why WP doesnt have that many apps
- Thread starter colinkiama
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a5cent
New member
But then why not just dual boot W8.1 on your Mac? Like I said, you can already develop WP apps on a Mac. That works great. What you can't do is develop WP apps on OSX, but if someone is such a ****** that installing W8.1 on their Mac is an insurmountable obstacle, then how likely is it that MS providing the SDK will change anything? I think pretty much zero.
Also note that just providing the SDK isn't nearly enough. MS would also have to port Visual Studio and their entire tool chain over to OSX. That's a gargantuan amount of work.
Is that the reason Google doesn't provide WP apps? I believe it is, but the general consensus here would say otherwise.
a5cent
New member
I knew that would get me in trouble. I started typing out a longer version, but along the way I decided it was getting too long winded, so I gave up and went with what was simple. With well over 50 million users, the "market share" argument is irrelevant for apps that are distributed globally (in particular for Google that is nothing but a sorry excuse, or lie, although I'm not sure if Google themselves have ever offered that as a reason, or if it's just been put in their mouth), but it is still relevant for apps from your local credit union, mom&pop shop etc, which is where most of WP's remaining app problems lie.
I don't think the WP community is being inconsistent here.
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Facebook? Snapchat? Even Instagram's half hearted effort could be in this list. What about them?
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purefire21
New member
I think its mostly the WP languages C# C++ I'm not a developer but may that language is really hard for so to make apps
purefire21
New member
After some research it's really C++ not marketshare! C++ is difficult compared to apples c and android Java. That's really the problem. If Microsoft developed WP base on C like apple we would have the same amount of apps
a5cent
New member
You can find exceptions to any rule. That doesn't mean much. Admittedly, I'd also like to know what is up with them though.
What matters is the general trend, and I do think it's fair to say that WP has most of the major apps now, and is still getting more every day. That definitely wouldn't be happening if market share was a general problem. If market share was still a major obstacle, then NOBODY would be delivering apps for WP, which clearly isn't the case.
Edit:
Tying this to "market share" is probably misleading. It's really about having a user base that is, in absolute numbers, large enough to make app development worthwhile. Whether that is 2% or 20% of the market isn't really the issue. Maybe that's what is bugging you?
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N_LaRUE
New member
Out of curiosity and just asking. How many developers do you know personally that are totally Mac centric?
I know a few Mac users who dual boot W8.1. Either that or use VM. It's not that hard to accomplish, actually very easy. So either the developers are stuck up or just can't be bothered.
That's basically what it comes down to. It's not hating W8.1, it's just finding an excuse. That's what a5cent is getting at. If they can't go so far as to dual boot or use VM then they obviously have no interest in making an app in the first place. So it's not W8.1 being the problem it's the image of Windows Phone as the problem. If they felt that it was worth while they would do it.
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N_LaRUE
New member
Could you provide links to your amazing revelation?
What iOS, WP and Android use is a form of object oriented programming. Syntax is of course different but the concepts are the same. C++ has been around a lot longer than iOS.
If you know an object oriented programming language you can usually pick up the others rather easily with some basic tutorials easily found on the internet. Also good programming tools help a lot in this instance.
For some reason it's become generally accepted here that apps are missing because of low market share, except for Google.
Google probably barely notices WP. Sure, they know WP is there, but I'm sure they're not scared of them. 3% market share after 4 years? You really think Google is quaking in their proverbial boots? WP sales for one month are equal to Android's for one day.
So answer this: if Google is scared of WP as you say, then why do they provide some of their best apps for iOS? Google could probably pull those apps and get a few iPhone users, but they've calculated that the gains from having their apps on iOS are greater than the gains from pulling over a few of their users.
Why does Microsoft itself put their own platform on the back burner? Those complaints are all over this forum. Are they scared of WP taking over and trying to kill it as Google is accused of?
N_LaRUE
New member
Just a general comment and nitpick at the title of this thread.
It should be a hypothesis not a theory. Theories are proven where hypothesis are not.
Just saying...
It should be a hypothesis not a theory. Theories are proven where hypothesis are not.
Just saying...
a5cent
New member
You are putting words in my mouth tgp. Nowhere did I say Google is scared of WP. MS and Google are direct competitors however (Google and Apple not so much), and it would be stupid for Google to support a direct competitor if they don't have to. That's all this is. It's a completely rational business decision and has nothing to do with fear.
You appear to be saying that WP's market share isn't big enough for Google to care or even notice. I'd say that is most certainly wrong, because WP's market share is easily large enough for Google to earn a handsome profit from its user base. Even if we assume that WP's ecosystem allows Google to extract only 1/10th of Googles alleged average per-user profit , then those 50 million users are still worth over 300 million dollars. Annually! The cost of developing a few apps is a ridiculously small investment compared to that earnings potential. In my book, that ROI is pretty much the opposite of a market that is too small to notice or care about, which is why I say the market share argument is false.
There is obviously a market share threshold, where Google could no longer afford to ignore WP. If that is all you are looking at, then yes, we could say market share is the problem. However, we aren't asking at what point Google has no choice but to service WP! We are asking at what point WP's market share is big enough to make it economically viable for Google to pursue WP's user base! Those aren't the same thresholds. WP is still far from the former, but has surpassed the later, which is why most of the internationally relevant apps are now reaching WP.
It's not blind Google hatred tgp, or at least on my part it's not. The argument is more nuanced than that. Go back and re-read my earlier posts. It depends on how large your potential user base is. If your apps are marketable internationally (like all of Google's services), then WP is already worth developing for. If it's interesting only to a subset, say WP users in Buford Wyoming, then not so much.
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a5cent
New member
I didn't clarify, but I didn't mean you specifically. I meant "you" in a plural form, as in general Windows Central posters. There is a general hatred of Google on this forum, as well as the mindset that Google is scared of WP. I use both platforms side-by-side, so I'm in the neutral zone.
I understand what you mean by Google's services being usable by all WP users and not just a subset. And let me back peddle a bit here: I also do actually agree that the negative effect on WP sales has something to do with Google's decision. But somewhere, there's a line where overall it's more detrimental to Google's bottom line to withhold apps than to provide them. That line has been crossed with iPhone. WP's market share is still small enough that it hasn't been crossed.
Google wouldn't let potential $$$$$$ lay on the table. WP's market is a total of what, around 50 million. iOS's is pushing 1 billion, which is 20x as many. If Microsoft sold 950 million WPs today, we would see top notch Google apps for WP tomorrow. Even if Google is accounting for the negative effect on sales, it still comes down to market share, or absolute numbers, or whatever you want to call it.
Apple used C now they use Swift since iOS 8. Android uses Java. And Windows Phone uses XAML and since WP8.1 it has gained support for C# for WinRT/Universal apps.
WP8+ has, by far, the broadest support for programming languages. You write programs in C#, VB, C++, JavaScript, etc. And Visual Studio is *far* superior to the iOS and Android development environments. The Win8 requirement isn't a obstacle for anyone but the most casual developer.
IMO, the app gap on WP8+ is due to:
1. Lack of mindshare in the public
2. Lack of marketshare
3. No easy way to generate a WP8 app from iOS or Android source
4. For games, lack of OpenGL ES in WP8
Items #3-4 are more nitpicking; items 1-2 are the biggies. No one cares about WP other than the people on this website. I don't know how MSFT can fix that public perception problem. From the ISV perspective, I think it would be worthwhile for MSFT to create a Xamarin-like version of Visual Studio that can generate apps for all three platforms (get as close as possible to creating an app for iOS, Android, and WP8+ with click of a button).
IMO, the app gap on WP8+ is due to:
1. Lack of mindshare in the public
2. Lack of marketshare
3. No easy way to generate a WP8 app from iOS or Android source
4. For games, lack of OpenGL ES in WP8
Items #3-4 are more nitpicking; items 1-2 are the biggies. No one cares about WP other than the people on this website. I don't know how MSFT can fix that public perception problem. From the ISV perspective, I think it would be worthwhile for MSFT to create a Xamarin-like version of Visual Studio that can generate apps for all three platforms (get as close as possible to creating an app for iOS, Android, and WP8+ with click of a button).
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