Next major windows phone update and what you want in it.

[Brad Pedersen]

I would like more Bluetooth options. I hate being interrupted by text messages when I'm streaming music in my car. I really wish i could disable that.

 

[peacefulberry]

I have so far not witnessed this myself. I've been on these forums for a while now, and your mention is the first time I've heard of it. I'm not saying you're wrong, but if that problem exists, it certainly isn't widespread. Maybe it was a problem once, but is no longer?

Anyway, even if the problem you're referring to does exist, then the solution is to ensure that a paused media player isn't using any data, because that truly would be terrible. Adding a stop button however... that is just a hack, to fix a problem that shouldn't exist in the first place. If MS used that philosophy to fix every problem, the UI would soon become an utterly useless mess.



The metro UI is all about minimalism. The best user interfaces are built by constantly asking what can yet be removed (without compromising functionality), instead of what more could possibly be "piled on". This UI design choice exemplifies exactly that. People aren't used to it, but it is good UI design.

Think about this conceptually. What is the difference (forget about bug squashing for a moment) between "stop" and "pause"? Back in the day when all we had were CD players, differing between the two made sense:

stop = stop playing music, stop spinning the disc, park the laser
pause = stop playing music, keep spinning the disk spinning, keep the laser where it it.

On todays digital media players, there is no disk to spin and no laser to park. The only thing that remains, which both functions share, is to "stop playing music". Only one common feature remains, so me might as well get rid of one of those buttons. Anything else is just about hanging on to an old habit whose time has passed.

That is why WP should not offer both options.

How does adding a simple stop button, perhaps next to the pause or play button compromise the UI? It in no way takes from the beautiful interface. Simplicity doesn't have to mean functionless. The reason why I made the switch to WP is because of the simplistic beauty, lack of blackberry or android icons ( I just didn't like them anymore), the ability to change color themes,live tiles, etc. However, like I mentioned earlier, its definitely confusing to some ppl who've made the switch recently why certain basic functions aren't there. I'm not talking about app availability or scrolling with your eyes, or any OS specific function...I'm talking about basic functions that should be a part of every smartphone. Like the ability to close apps without backspacing forever, the ability to stop your music completely if you want, the ability to have separate volume settings for music and ringer volumes, the ability for message and email tones to not chime during a phone call. These are simple basic functions that have never compromised the look of any UI. So, pls forgive me, but I'm confused as to what you mean.

 

[sandmanfvr]

Realistic things I want:

1. More Facebook in the People hub such as reshare, post videos from people hub, fix glitches on image loads, and let me retag photos etc. Just put all the Facebook features in there.
2. Toast notifications that work. Just put them in, NO excuses.
3. Customizations in the OS: I want volume controls for notifications, music, video, and then ringtones. Period. I want custom notifications sounds, and have them custom per contact.
4. Enhance the lock screen to allow us to see more "stuff" and then I respond to things from the lock screen ala ios.

More enhancements that may not come sooner:

1. On multitasking, make it to where I can close and app. Period.
2. Support MORE video formats like MPG etc, kind of silly I have to convert vids over to watch an MPG on my phone.
3. Windows Phone application that works on Vista and such, not just 7 and 8.
4. Better email client, that is more optimized and doesn't' slow down on large email threads. Also can attach any file.
5. File manager, period.
6. Facebook chat that works with messages; aka when somebody on mobile sends me a message, I see it in chat/sms. Only way to see this on the app or mobile website, not acceptable. When I log in I should get the messages.
7. When uploading multiple photos, I need to edit the tags on them before I upload, not after.

Just about all I need.

 

[a5cent]

These are simple basic functions that have never compromised the look of any UI. So, pls forgive me, but I'm confused as to what you mean.

Imagine having two buttons for pasting text. One would clear the copy-buffer, so you couldn't paste the same text a second time, while the other would simply leave the copy-buffer as is (until you copied different text). That is equally ridiculous. There is no need to clear the copy-buffer. Doing so serves no purpose, so that button can be removed, just like the stop button.

If that still doesn't make sense, then you need to explain what it is about my previous CD player analogy that you don't understand.

 

[peacefulberry]

Imagine having two buttons for pasting text. One would clear the copy-buffer, so you couldn't paste the same text a second time, while the other would simply leave the copy-buffer as is (until you copied different text). That is equally ridiculous. There is no need to clear the copy-buffer. Doing so serves no purpose, so that button can be removed... just like stop button...

If that still doesn't make sense, then you would need to explain what it is about my previous CD player analogy that you don't understand.

I think you misunderstood my question. What I needed you to explain was how a stop button interferes with the UI. You were mentioning that the UI was about minimalism (which I completely understand. Its one of the reasons I switched to WP.) What I didn't understand is how adding a stop button interferes with the minimalistic theme. Secondly, your comparison of a copy/paste feature is similar to clip board pasting, I.e. Copying and pasting to clip board in Windows so you can use the copied material later. Its a great feature, one that I use alot, but it does effect memory. So periodically clearing out copied material from the clip board is also recommended. However, in my recommendation of a stop button, it still is somewhat of the same concept. There has to be a way that the phone "remembers" where you left off when you pause a song. That means that there is some background task or data pulling, which leads to some sort of battery drainage and data loss (if streaming) even if most don't notice it. Its simple technology science. If there is a stop button, the task of "remembrance" completely stops and any data or battery usage stops as well. There is a thread about this as well. Regardless to what you may believe, I'm not the only one with this concern.
Here's a thread with this issue regarding Zune in 2011: http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...mpletely/eabfd560-c146-e011-9575-d8d385dcbb12

Here's a thread from WP central more recently: http://forums.windowscentral.com/nokia-lumia-920/211005-battery-drain-problem-nokia-music.html

As you can see from reading these threads, that some were having the same battery issues with Nokia music and any other music hub app. Stop buttons just make more since, just like an exit button when using apps. It does not compromise the UI in any way. Thanks for reading.

 

[jcagga]

Animates Bing wallpaper like on computers, gesture like windows 8, update the social integration in messaging, people, camera, photo and me hubs. Able to upload videos to YouTube from camera mode <--- unacceptable missing feature in 2013.

 

[a5cent]

Here's a thread with this issue regarding Zune in 2011: How to close or stop Zune completely? - Microsoft Community

Here's a thread from WP central more recently: http://forums.windowscentral.com/nokia-lumia-920/211005-battery-drain-problem-nokia-music.html

In the second thread, the OP explicitly states that his/her problem persists without ever having played/streamed a single song. Ultimately, neither of those threads are about the "stop" vs. "pause" issue.

your comparison of a copy/paste feature is similar to clip board pasting, i.e. Copying and pasting to clip board in Windows
<snipped>
So periodically clearing out copied material from the clip board is also recommended
<snipped>
There has to be a way that the phone "remembers" where you left off when you pause a song. That means that there is some background task or data pulling, which leads to some sort of battery drainage and data loss
<snipped>
Its simple technology science

No, I was specifically referring to the purely text based copy/paste feature on WP, not the Windows clipboard. The amount of memory this requires is laughably little. Typically a few hundred bytes, far less than even 1Kb. There is absolutely no sane reason to expect users to actively manage and conserve such insignificant amounts of memory. It occupies not even a millionth of the memory available. Rather uncoincidentally, that is also why WP neither supports nor requires that feature from the Windows clipboard.

Comparing this to the WP copy-buffer is the far superior analogy, because remembering the position in an audio track also requires no more than a few hundred bytes of memory, which doesn't even need to be kept in RAM, but can be saved to storage. It requires no background task whatsoever. You are making what is so simple, that it barely qualifies as computer science, more complicated than it is.

What I didn't understand is how adding a stop button interferes with the minimalistic theme.

Understanding why that conflicts with a particular design philosophy isn't really important.

What is important is understanding why the "stop" and "pause" buttons are logically equivalent (on digital audio players) and thus redundant. If you don't understand that, then all I can do is return to my original question, which was: "what do you not understand about the previous CD player analogy"?

 

[peacefulberry]

In the second thread, the OP explicitly states that his/her problem persists without ever having played/streamed a single song. Ultimately, neither of those threads are about the "stop" vs. "pause" issue.



No, I was specifically referring to the purely text based copy/paste feature on WP, not the Windows clipboard. The amount of memory this requires is laughably little. Typically a few hundred bytes, far less than even 1Kb. There is absolutely no sane reason to expect users to actively manage and conserve such insignificant amounts of memory. It occupies not even a millionth of the memory available. Rather uncoincidentally, that is also why WP neither supports nor requires that feature from the Windows clipboard.

Comparing this to the WP copy-buffer is the far superior analogy, because remembering the position in an audio track also requires no more than a few hundred bytes of memory, which doesn't even need to be kept in RAM, but can be saved to storage. It requires no background task whatsoever. You are making what is so simple, that it barely qualifies as computer science, more complicated than it is.



Understanding why that conflicts with a particular design philosophy isn't really important.

What is important is understanding why the "stop" and "pause" buttons are logically equivalent (on digital audio players) and thus redundant. If you don't understand that, then all I can do is return to my original question, which was: "what do you not understand about the previous CD player analogy"?

Actually the threads were about stopping, not pausing the music. The first line of the first thread states: "Hello, how do I turn off Zune? More specifically, how do I "stop" not "pause" Zune?" But, maybe you didn't see that. As I previously stated, there is some sort of task running needed to allow the phone to "remember" where you left off. A simple stop button would eliminate this.

In any event, its great that this pause button is sufficient for you, but there are others (including myself) that would like to see a simple stop button as well. You don't have to use if, if you choose not to, but the option should definitely be present.

 

[peacefulberry]

Also I forgot to mention that you do agree that some memory is used to pause music. Now imagine if you ( like me, stream music for hours a day, pausing the music maybe 50-100 times a day (hypothetically). Doing this for 6-12 months, there maybe a significant amount of memory lost. No one knows for sure, but that is a definite possibility. So, a stop button that can even eliminate this possibility would be awesome! Actually, a clear cache button would solve this as well. Oftentimes, prevention is better than treatment... Again, thanks for reading.

 

[Simon Gregory]

Memory used to pause music would be a set of pointers to remember the track and the offset within the current playlist (you're talking a few bytes only). Multiple pausing won't use up more memory throughout the day, due to object re-use and/or garbage collection.

In fact, if only the pause button did work the way it was supposed to. My phone forgets the current track all the time, for no specific reason - this is what needs to be improved!

 

[farukdgn]

Need a seek bar for players... OMG I can't believe there isn't one. Also why there is no music player app? Doesn't wp let it?

 

[farukdgn]

Also Flash support. I know alot of ppl say that flash is becoming obsolete, but I just visited 2 websites that needed flash support and couldn't view them because of no flash. There are still alot of sites that use it.

Please stop wanting everyting you see. Flash sucks and it even slows down computers. It kills phones browsers.

 

[peacefulberry]

Please stop wanting everyting you see. Flash sucks and it even slows down computers. It kills phones browsers.

I just visited 2 sites that required flash to use one if its features...so that is why I added flash to MY list. If you don't use it, then great! But this thread is called "Next major update and what you WANT in it". If I wanted the ability to ping Mars, than that's my prerogative. It is my list, and my wants...

 

[a5cent]

Doing this for 6-12 months, there maybe a significant amount of memory lost.

Look, at this point you are just making stuff up. You can invent fake problems (your concepts about memory management) or even identify real problems as much as you like... the approach taken should always involve solving the problem.

Unfortunately, your rational for a stop button offers nothing but a way to work around such perceived problems. It doesn't actually solve any of them.

I would also suggest reading further than the first post in those threads you linked too, because the consensus changes in regard to what the problem is. Maybe you didn't see that.

Unfortunately, as long as you keep seeing the stop button as a solution to imaginary problems, and continue to ignore the more important issue, that there is logically no difference between stop and pause on digital media players, then this discussion is going nowhere.

Good day.

 

[ally42]

Email editing when I need to fwd them. I can deal with no custom sounds/volume, a bad calendar and a not so good browser. But not being able to edit emails when I need to fwd or answer? Drives me bloody mad.

 

[peacefulberry]

Look, at this point you are just making stuff up. You can invent fake problems (your concepts about memory management) or even identify real problems as much as you like... the approach taken should always involve solving the problem.

However, what you suggest only introduces a way to work around such perceived problems, but doesn't actually solve any of them.

I would also suggest reading further than the first post in those threads you linked too, because the consensus changes in regard to what the problem is. Maybe you didn't see that.

Unfortunately, as long as you keep seeing the stop button as a solution to imaginary problems, and continue to ignore the more important point, that there is logically no difference between stop and pause on digital media players, then this discussion is going nowhere.

Good day.

I do agree that we perceive things differently ( Heck, I don't even know you! But I did state that a "clear phone's memory cache" is actually the solution. Thank you for ending this discussion. Have a great day as well.

 

[Mystictrust]

Re: the stop button thing... I don't know about memory and all that stuff... I just want to be able to remove a song I played once from the drop down bar. That's pretty much it.

I appreciate that you can pause a song and come right back to it whenever you darn well feel like it, but what if you know you won't be coming back? For days on end I was seeing the bar come down with a song I played several days earlier, and all I was doing was either adjusting volume, accidentally pressing the volume bar, or setting phone to vibrate. I would hate to accidentally bump 'play' instead of turning my phone on vibrate in an inappropriate setting. Having both a pause and stop button, or an integrated "remove song" button/checkbox when you press on a volume button would be nice.

This is low priority, of course, since there's an app that takes care of it - but it's still a nuisance that doesn't seem too difficult to provide an option for.

 

[peacefulberry]

Also, the Bing search bar would work better for me at the bottom like the address bar of IE...especially for taller devices.

 

[tgp]

Microsoft's mammoth task is to take the features mentioned in this thread and integrate them into their beautiful & simplistic OS without mucking it up. Most everything mentioned here has been in mobile phones for a long time, but in the other OS's. If Microsoft successfully does it, my hat is off to the guys at Redmond!

 

[jcagga]

Also, the Bing search bar would work better for me at the bottom like the address bar of IE...especially for taller devices.

o wow never thought of this! You might be onto something!