Nokia "EOS"

[Juanma Herrera]

But I think those pics are 100% crop, isn't it? When you resize the pics to a common 5mpx image, or even a less than 2 mpx pic for web sharing, the differences would minimize, I hope you know what I mean...
Oversampling is the main objetive of 808 pureview...

 

[vlad0]

Do we know if that 808 pic is a crop from a 1:1 pixel ratio (38Mpix) or distilled/oversampled pureview mode .. ? It makes a huge difference in terms of noise levels.

I am not saying that the HES9 is the perfect sensor, but its the best one available for mobile phones. Don't forget that all those high end compact cameras have lots of room to play with, which is not the case with the 808. The camera module/space is significantly smaller than any of the 1" sensor devices.


RX 100: 102 x 59 x 36 mm
808: 123.9 x 60.2 x 13.9 mm

RX100: 240 g
808: 159g

The RX100 has one purpose only, to take pictures.. the 808/EOS are fully functional smartphones.

In terms of size / quality .. there is nothing better than the Phase 1 system.

Here are some pics from the two:

RX100

808

RX100

808


The RX 100 is better, but the difference is not all that big.. and it should be considering that its a proper camera.

Also, I don't think any noise filtering will be able to help you with what those 1/3" sensors in the gs4/iphone 5 etc, produce..

iPhone 5 ( 800 iso )



Phase 1 pureview mode (800 iso)



100% crop

iphone 5

808

The oversampling algorithm cleans up a lot of the junk..

 

[JustToClarify]

I appreciate Nokia took a light approach to noise reduction but the sensor is still too noisy for a phone that's meant to be state-of-the-art in digital photography. It's still better than all the others but I really want a phone that can compete against the good cameras. If I'm fine with running the images through heavy noise reduction on computers afterward, I can just use the iPhones and Galaxys of the world and be happy.

err it's best you can get in a <200g device with todays technology, also price of those cameras(RX100 & J1) is quite higher than 808...I think 808 beats pretty much everything in its price range at least for sheer IQ

 

[vlad0]

^ it does.. at $400 its a bargain, even you not using it as your main smartphone


Report of Nokia EOS encounter describes Lumia 920 / 808 hybrid - GSMArena.com news

 

[jmajid]

@vlad0 you beat me to it i just saw this...
wow - i dont mind that look at all, very nice...but it appears that device that was seen was not quite like this...much lighter than 920!

 

[vlad0]

I played around with some full resolution images from the Phase 1 system today... one advantage of having such a large mpix count is that you can basically pick any number of mpix between 2 and 38 and .. resize accordingly. I don't think it brings any improvement in terms of IQ, but I can see the benefit..

I've taken these over the last few months, and I never looked at them because I really don't care about the mpix count that much, and I still think that in PureView mode the 808 produces the best results.

So let's hope they can fully port the technology over to WP


15Mpix

18Mpix

12Mpix

10Mpix

 

[tissotti]

Imo if any phone ever, it's the EOS Nokia should never use large screen. It will look ludicrous with anything like 808PV camera module. It would anyways be nice to be able to grip a phone with that kind of camera, so keep it on 4-4.5-inch, like Nokia will likely do.

Nokia is absolutely free to make +5" phablets and no doubt will when Microsoft finally decides to move 1 cm forward by giving 1080p support. Likely somewhere in Q4... hopefully.


From left to right: Lumia 925, Lumia 920, Lumia 800, N97


41MP "true" PureView camera on the left, Lumia 920 on the right

 

[vlad0]

^ looking at that sensor, and reading this:

The device is made of polycarbonate, and is about as thick as the Nokia Lumia 920 in the middle, but is highly tapered at both ends, giving the impression of a much slimmer device.
The lens housing is round in shape and does not protrude much. The flash is Xenon, and the flash and lens are both smaller than the Nokia 808 Pureview. Next to the flash is a small red LED which may be a focus assist light.
The lens also has an automatic cover that opens when the camera app is started.
The number of megapixels were not marked on the prototype, with “XX megapixels” only being written on the lens housing.
There is a new camera app called “Nokia Pro Camera”with a completely new interface. There is also manual focus available through the app. The regular photo app is also available.
The screen size and resolution is same as 920, and appears to be AMOLED. The speaker holes are at the bottom as the handset.
The handset was much lighter than the Nokia Lumia 920."

It might not be the same camera pack.

 

[JustToClarify]

They need to stick a 5" on this thing pronto and scrap whatever silly 4.5" prototype they have. Ideally it should be a 1080p display, but having to wait for Microsoft's slow *** 1080p support late in the year, which should've been supported with WP8 from the get go, means Nokia can't utilize their early to market advantage, or really test my patience when so many other manufacturers are gunning for Nokia now in the cameraphone department with Sony and Samsung throwing their hats in. I know it's cold in Finland, but that's no excuse for being frozen in time.

in that case it would be huge and weigh over 200 and possibly 250 grams, with at least 3000 mAh battery having hard time to cope with all that processing...

 

[vlad0]

Steve, and a few others, called this situations a while ago..

EOS, the mysterious Nokia camera flagship that's yet to come?

 

[jmajid]

Steve, and a few others, called this situations a while ago..

EOS, the mysterious Nokia camera flagship that's yet to come?

im not so sure of downgrading the size of the sensor to something smaller than the N8 would be something that Nokia would pursue.
While i read both AAWP and AAS, i have seen that Steve has become more and more a skeptic than a believer.
I believe there will be a device this summer, a half way house lets say, but im not ready to call it a failure until its announced and we see the specifications and its capability.
I firmly believe a graphene sensor is in Nokia's future, holiday 2013 or 2014 spring.

 

[FavBrowser]

im not so sure of downgrading the size of the sensor to something smaller than the N8 would be something that Nokia would pursue.
While i read both AAWP and AAS, i have seen that Steve has become more and more a skeptic than a believer.
I believe there will be a device this summer, a half way house lets say, but im not ready to call it a failure until its announced and we see the specifications and its capability.
I firmly believe a graphene sensor is in Nokia's future, holiday 2013 or 2014 spring.

Enough graphene to cover the head of a pin would cost upwards of ?1,000

Hero material: 10 fascinating facts about graphene ? Nokia Conversations : the official Nokia blog

 

[jmajid]

Enough graphene to cover the head of a pin would cost upwards of €1,000

Hero material: 10 fascinating facts about graphene – Nokia Conversations : the official Nokia blog

did you see the entire video/article?
the sensor wont be entirely graphene - its graphene based.
As with anything new, the costs of production and development are always high to begin with; no doubt this is the reason that Nokia is investing its money into the technology.
Nokia Research Center participates in the Graphene Flagship EU pilot | Nokia Research Center
towards the bottom of this article...
"The first commercial products are expected to enter the market in 2013 or 2014 according to recent estimates."
Not to say this is going to be a Nokia product but...

 

[wizzackr]

The biggest problem is the supposed 4.5" OLED display. One of the reasons why I don't want to buy a dedicated camera like the Sony RX100 is their dinky 3" screens. I can't enjoy the images or share them around the room with that thing. The 4.5" is small by today's standards. Nokia needs to get in with the times and stop living in its own little self-made bubble. Otherwise it will be no different than Apple. The standard is 5" now and Samsung can achieve this on the Galaxy S4 in the same footprint as the 4.5" Lumia 920. That's 0.5" measured diagonally and it is a massive difference in screen size while the width and height isn't any different than a Lumia 920. It's just Nokia loves their thick *** bezels that serve no purpose beyond aesthetics.

Couldn't agree more - if Nokia's next flagship has a screen of <=4.5" I'm looking elsewhere.

 

[vlad0]

If it has anything over 4.5 I would be looking elsewhere.. its really hard to make everyone happy

I've been experimenting with the 41Mpix sensor.. and you can push this thing pretty hard overall.. I am impressed. I've been shooting in pureview mode (where the software combines pixels and cleans the junk) so far, but I can see how the full resolution mode can come in handy as well..

You take in full res, and then just resize.. results are acceptable.

Here the foreground is out of focus, but mid/far.. sublime details from such a small assembly
If it has anything over 4.5 I would be looking elsewhere.. its really hard to make everyone happy

I've been experimenting with the 41Mpix sensor.. and you can push this thing pretty hard overall.. I am impressed. I've been shooting in pureview mode (where the software combines pixels and cleans the junk) so far, but I can see how the full resolution mode can come in handy as well..

You take in full res, and then just resize.. results are acceptable.

Here the foreground is out of focus, but mid/far.. sublime details from such a small assembly



So, even if they can't do oversampling on WP..i still hope they can use that same sensor.

 

[wizzackr]

If it has anything over 4.5 I would be looking elsewhere.. its really hard to make everyone happy

True, but I take it you're talking about the physical footprint, right? As has been stated above you pretty much get the 5" screen 'for free' on the S4, as it's pretty much sharing the L920's footprint. I have a hard time seeing any reason for 'going to look elsewhere' if the physical dimensions stay the same while getting a bigger screen, no?

Also, if the S3/4 sales figures are any indication of what the market demands, I'd rather have Nokia follow that than either mine or your personal opinion

Finally: That photo looks amazing...

 

[jmajid]

agreed that photo is really great
I have some problems still trying to get the 808 to focus on what i want.... so i end up with a soft focus... might be moving at the time of the photo being taken... i have tried shifting from the shutter button to using the soft key and it helps a little....
But yes, taking 41MP shots and then cropping etc. can give some really nice details even still.
Must say though that the S4 camera does a pretty decent job considering its doing it with a 13MP sensor and software tricks.

 

[vlad0]

Fresh info.. lets hope that its true

Nokia’s Lumia EOS Will Sport a 41 Megapixel Camera: Coming July 9! | Mobile Geeks

agreed that photo is really great
I have some problems still trying to get the 808 to focus on what i want.... so i end up with a soft focus... might be moving at the time of the photo being taken... i have tried shifting from the shutter button to using the soft key and it helps a little....
But yes, taking 41MP shots and then cropping etc. can give some really nice details even still.
Must say though that the S4 camera does a pretty decent job considering its doing it with a 13MP sensor and software tricks.

The S4 does well mainly because of that potent DSP they have in there... and of course the jpeg processing is good as well.

 

[jmajid]

Fresh info.. lets hope that its true

Nokia’s Lumia EOS Will Sport a 41 Megapixel Camera: Coming July 9! | Mobile Geeks

The S4 does well mainly because of that potent DSP they have in there... and of course the jpeg processing is good as well.

very interesting article - not quite a drive by article, in that it actually was written to provide extra detail and also tried to provide substantiation too.
I have heard Mary Jo Foley mention another device ( i think once she mentioned EOS) coming this summer.

I am still a little unsure about this July device being the full 41MP device or a cut down version of it....
and the mention of the OIS being present - not sure if they can fit all that with the same size camera module into something thinner than the 920.
THAT would be a feat of engineering! (see above photos from @tissotti comparing the 920 and 808 camera modules)

Also still holding out for the next gen of camera modules - especially after reading the latest Nokia conversations article about imaging:
Bringing in the best imaging technology through NGP – Nokia Conversations : the official Nokia blog
Could this be late 2013 or early 2014? I think early 2014 now as Nokia would be shooting themselves in the foot hammering out so many devices in one year... got to leave us wanting more

 

[vlad0]

^ I think that's why the source from mnb said that there are two EOS devices, one based on current gen (less mpix) and one on next gen (phase 1 system) ... it kind of makes sense, but they might've found a way to use phase 1 with the current gen cpu/gpu..

We will find out soon