Nokia frustration does not = hate for OEM

[Laura Knotek]

You're obviously not familiar with T-Mobile. They introduced the smartphone, along with Sprint, in the USA. T-Mo was the pioneer for Windows Mobile, Danger Sidekick (which was HUGE) and Android (the launch carrier in the USA).

Android did not gain popularity when only T-Mobile sold Android devices. Android's popularity resulted when VZW picked it up and ran the huge OG Droid marketing blitz.

 

[brmiller1976]

Android hit 5% marketshare when T-Mobile was the only carrier selling it.

If Windows Phone hit 5% market share in the US, that would be almost tripling its current share of the US marketplace.

I don't think Microsoft or OEMs would complain about that.

If Lumia 920 hit 5% of overall US smartphone sales, Nokia's stock would skyrocket.

That's why T-Mobile bashing makes no sense. T-Mobile is HUGE amongst global carriers and has a history of jump-starting new and successful mobile ecosystems.

 

[Daniel Ratcliffe]

Android hit 5% marketshare when T-Mobile was the only carrier selling it.

If Windows Phone hit 5% market share in the US, that would be almost tripling its current share of the US marketplace.

I don't think Microsoft or OEMs would complain about that.

If Lumia 920 hit 5% of overall US smartphone sales, Nokia's stock would skyrocket.

That's why T-Mobile bashing makes no sense. T-Mobile is HUGE amongst global carriers and has a history of jump-starting new and successful mobile ecosystems.

In all fairness, it is jumpstarting 4G through its parent company Everything Everywhere. So it is also technically jumpstarting the Lumia 920.

 

[Laura Knotek]

Android hit 5% marketshare when T-Mobile was the only carrier selling it.

If Windows Phone hit 5% market share in the US, that would be almost tripling its current share of the US marketplace.

I don't think Microsoft or OEMs would complain about that.

If Lumia 920 hit 5% of overall US smartphone sales, Nokia's stock would skyrocket.

That's why T-Mobile bashing makes no sense. T-Mobile is HUGE amongst global carriers and has a history of jump-starting new and successful mobile ecosystems.

The Android market share ending September 2009 was only 2.5%. The OG Motorola Droid was released in October 2009. The Android market share in December 2009 jumped to 5.2%. comScore Reports December 2009 U.S. Mobile Subscriber Market Share - comScore, Inc

 

[Heron_Kusanagi]

In all fairness, it is jumpstarting 4G through its parent company Everything Everywhere. So it is also technically jumpstarting the Lumia 920.

The thing is, iPhone 5, S3, Note 2 and One X+ all have LTE too. I don't think having LTE is going to mean much for the L920, only a sense of parity in hardware specs.

 

[Daniel Ratcliffe]

The thing is, iPhone 5, S3, Note 2 and One X+ all have LTE too. I don't think having LTE is going to mean much for the L920, only a sense of parity in hardware specs.

True, but they are still jumpstarting the 920 in a way as it is exclusive to EE.

 

[Heron_Kusanagi]

True, but they are still jumpstarting the 920 in a way as it is exclusive to EE.

Hopefully it works out. I am partial to Nokia, but I am questioning the logic of exclusivity when your brand needs all the sales it can get.

 

[brmiller1976]

OK, let's be super-conservative and assume that every bit of Android growth from T-Mobile's launch onwards was only from Verizon (a very dodgy assumption, but bear with me).

Let's assume T-Mobile had a similar launch with Lumia 920.

That would make the T-Mobile Lumia 920 2.5% of the smartphone market in the USA for 2/3 of the last quarter of 2012, or 1.65 million total T-Mobile Nokia Lumia 920s sold.

And that's in the WORST case, rosiest pro-Verizon forecast.

That means that in Q4, T-Mobile would sell twice as many 920s than Nokia has sold all Windows Phones combined in the USA in the prior year.

Contrast that to the Lumia 900 launch on AT&T, another carrier exclusive, which sold a mere 300,000 units and then immediately fell off the sales chart.

Which makes more sense? (Especially considering that Verizon isn't planning a "Droid-style" launch campaign around the Lumia 920 in Q4 of this year, and AT&T is giving the 920 no more support than it gave the 900 earlier)

Nokia is suffering from the classic Innovator's Dilemma. They're going to market with assumptions that are obsolete (carrier exclusives are good) in a market that has been entirely disrupted. As a result, they will fail as surely with the AT&T 920 as they did with the AT&T 900, for exactly the same reasons.

 

[jfa1]

Android hit 5% marketshare when T-Mobile was the only carrier selling it.

If Windows Phone hit 5% market share in the US, that would be almost tripling its current share of the US marketplace.

I don't think Microsoft or OEMs would complain about that.

If Lumia 920 hit 5% of overall US smartphone sales, Nokia's stock would skyrocket.

That's why T-Mobile bashing makes no sense. T-Mobile is HUGE amongst global carriers and has a history of jump-starting new and successful mobile ecosystems.

But Tmo USA and TMo in the rest of the worls are two separate companies. TMo USA is a joint venture of DT and VZN!

 

[stephen_az]

Sorry, but that simply is not true, and I can confirm this as I know people at all the major carriers.

T-Mobile, in particular, would be happy to push Windows Phones of all sorts as an alternative, regardless of "exclusivity." It is differentiating on 4G network speeds, unlimited data, and value.

Yes, the classic "I know people at the carriers" post. Sorry but that is a tired internet story for years on end. People always know someone who really has the answers but they just can't say. If you do not name people and decisions, then you are really not confirming anything at all.

 

[stephen_az]

But Tmo USA and TMo in the rest of the worls are two separate companies. TMo USA is a joint venture of DT and VZN!

T-Mobile in the US was previously Voicestream Wireless but was bought by DT. It is absolutely not a joint venture with anyone. It is a wholly owned subsidiary of DT that DT wanted to sell to AT&T but was blocked by regulators. VZW was one of the parties that pushed for the sale to be blocked. Please get your facts straight. This is all common knowledge and doesn't even require much of an internet search.

 

[stephen_az]

Anyone who blames Nokia for the exclusivity is an idiot. Verizon clearly does not give a **** about Nokia. Or Windows Phone for that matter.

They want to keep pimping those fugly DROID phones.

While I might choose other language since many Android phones look nice enough (it is the OS that is garbage), I appreciate the direct statement regarding VZW. People here still want to insist VZW is really on board and we are now less that two weeks from platform launch without even a single announcement. The phone is exclusive with AT&T because T-Mobile lacks both the market share and resources, Sprint is simply out, and VZW is playing a version of the same game as WP7. They do not appear to be on board to any significant degree and if offered the 920 they probably declined. AT&T becomes exclusive by default and Nokia shows that it is several years out of date by thinking exclusive actually generates positive buzz.

 

[cckgz4]

I love it LMAO.

 

[snowmutt]

Hmmmmm......

What was the original post to start this thread again?

Oh yeah. People are worried about WP's future which leads to passionate postings.

Point proven.

 

[mech1164]

It's not so much hate on Nokia its the stupidity of their movements. This is probably the best made phone from a technical point of view. That being said the 8X having gone with all carriers as possible will get more sales than Nokia. The totals will pale in comparison.

Lots of people here are too young to remember the Betamax/VHS battles. Betamax was technically the better product but was under one provider. VHS by comparison was on Multiple manufacturers. They were cheaper and more ubiquitous. Then thanks to the P0rn industry it became an even bigger runaway hit.

People here have been bashing HTC about the one X. Granted it should have been on all. That though is slightly corrected by having a variant of it in the Evo4GLTE. The One S is a great device to, the only real difference is the screen and battery the internals are the same and it's thinner.

Compare that to what Nokia is doing with the 920 and 820. The 820 and variants are smaller and have a lesser camera. the only selling point it has is that a micro sd card can be added for more storage. They can make variants of their lesser phone but not for their flagship? WTF is that?

If ATT's advertising is as awful as it was for the L900. They will be lucky to sell 100,000 of them. Once burned twice shy.

This is a cluster F from the get go when they first announced it. We all could see that they were going to make the same mistakes they did before. That's the sad part. It could have been so different for all.

 

[Heron_Kusanagi]

I will just note this.

Nokia's plan is dumb as laid out. But, there's still time for Nokia to make amends unlike what Sony did with Betamax. One hopes Nokia isn't as silly as Sony back then.

 

[Odog4ever]

Explain tmobile then?

T-mobile hasn't shown open hostility toward Microsoft like Verizon has. The evidence:

1. Verizon reneged on a super low-cost data plan for Microsofts KIN phones. Full priced smart-phone data plans + a feature phone = premature death of the KIN

2. Verizon face-men/executives have repeatedly crapped on Windows Phone in public, saying it has no chance for success.

3. Verizon only carried the first-gen Trophy. No second-gen device because they said they wanted a WP device with LTE (while at the same time not demanding LTE from Apple's iPhone) Along comes the Lumia with LTE. Where is Verizion at? *crickets*

4. Just try going into a Verizon store and asking for their only WP device and see what happens...

Both Tmobile and ATT have advertised WP device in store and on TV for the last two years.. Can you say the same for Verizon? It's great that T-mobile is on board but they just don't have the reach as the other major US carries. As far as awareness and availability, Verizon's apathy is a huge barrier for WP adoption in the US.

 

[Odog4ever]

While I might choose other language since many Android phones look nice enough (it is the OS that is garbage), I appreciate the direct statement regarding VZW. People here still want to insist VZW is really on board and we are now less that two weeks from platform launch without even a single announcement. The phone is exclusive with AT&T because T-Mobile lacks both the market share and resources, Sprint is simply out, and VZW is playing a version of the same game as WP7. They do not appear to be on board to any significant degree and if offered the 920 they probably declined. AT&T becomes exclusive by default and Nokia shows that it is several years out of date by thinking exclusive actually generates positive buzz.

OK, re-read your own post. If Sprint is out, T-mobile lacks resources, and VZW doesn't give a ****, then thats not Nokia with a bad strategy. Simply fact is they don't have a lot of options when it comes to the US do they?

 

[brmiller1976]

The idea that T-Mobile "lacks resources" and therefore cannot carry a phone is imbecilic. Sorry.

As for whether you want to believe that I know carrier people or not, I am not all that worried either way. We can revisit this in six months in the thread titled "Lumia 920 Sales well below expectations in the US -- what happened?!?"

 

[Heron_Kusanagi]

The idea that T-Mobile "lacks resources" and therefore cannot carry a phone is imbecilic. Sorry.

As for whether you want to believe that I know carrier people or not, I am not all that worried either way. We can revisit this in six months in the thread titled "Lumia 920 Sales well below expectations in the US -- what happened?!?"

I don't presume to know how things work in the US. I just feel that in a war of ecosystems, the more allies you got, the better equipped you are against other ecosystems. So I hope Nokia get their heads out of the sand and put L920 in as many hands as possible.