Nokia Lumia 1520 802.11ac 5GHz wifi issues

[Citizen X]

The Nokia Lumia 1520 specs indicate that it is equipped with an 802.11ac receiver. Unfortunately it does not seem to work on the 5 GHz band. I just started playing with an Asus RT-AC68U 802.11ac router today. It's a beast of a router and costs over $200. It's a bit complicated so I can't say for sure I'm doing everything correctly, but I seem to have replicated the problems others on the internet have had with 802.11ac. My phone can't even see the 5 GHz channel even with SSID broadcasting turned on. 2.4 GHz seems okay. WPA-2 security was active during all tests. I am running the latest firmware version 3.0.0.4.374_4561-g5f5c8d8. I will keep tinkering and let you guys know if anything changes... good or bad.

I wanted to start this thread so people can list their 802.11ac routers and post whether it works on the 5 GHz band or not. I will be in touch with Nokia and Asus about this. We need to make some noise.

 

[cariocap]

I have an Asus RT-AC66U (5GHz capable) and I connect my Lumia 1520 to it using the 5GHz channel.

Try to restart the phone or check the attached configurations bellow of my 5GHz channel.

 

[Citizen X]

Sorry man. Busy at the moment. But I tried some of your settings and got 5 GHz to connect. I will do some speed tests and report my findings. One of the changes I did was my SSID was hidden. I made it visible like you. I'm not sure if that's what the issue was. Like I said I will do some analysis and report back. Thanks for your speedy help!

 

[Pete]

Windows Phone 8 doesn't like to connect to hidden SSID networks - there's no way of manually adding a hidden WiFi network in the settings. It may be possible to hide the SSID after you've added it to the phone, but it may not be practicable.

Personally, I leave my SSID open, I reason that if someone has the hardware/software to crack my network, it'll also be able to find and crack hidden networks.

 

[Morpheus Phreak]

Indeed. Turning off the SSID has no actual practical application, and actually violates the WiFi standard.

It is basically like taking the numbers off your house for added privacy. All it does is make it hard for friends to find your house, and makes no difference to 'the man' as they have grid maps with addresses already listed.

Basically it adds no security, but makes things more difficult to do when you need to.

 

[Reflexx]

Windows Phone 8 doesn't like to connect to hidden SSID networks - there's no way of manually adding a hidden WiFi network in the settings. It may be possible to hide the SSID after you've added it to the phone, but it may not be practicable.

Personally, I leave my SSID open, I reason that if someone has the hardware/software to crack my network, it'll also be able to find and crack hidden networks.

Yeah. A few years ago my buddy showed me how he could find all hidden networks easily with his laptop. Then crack them. Made me hiding my network feel pretty useless.

 

[kb4000]

You can add hidden ssid networks. Just press advanced and then add.

 

[Citizen X]

Windows Phone 8 doesn't like to connect to hidden SSID networks - there's no way of manually adding a hidden WiFi network in the settings. It may be possible to hide the SSID after you've added it to the phone, but it may not be practicable.

Let me assure you that Windows Phone 8 connects to hidden networks just fine. My Lumia 1520 even connected fine to the hidden 2.4GHz network on my 802.11ac router. The issue was solely with the 5GHz band... Thus the title for the thread. Most of the routers I connect to on a regular basis use hidden networks. They are not a problem for Windows Phone 8. And yes of course Windows Phone 8 has the ability to connect to new hidden networks. I realize Windows Phone 8 is in third place in the cell phone wars but let's hold off on making up total fiction about it.

Personally, I leave my SSID open, I reason that if someone has the hardware/software to crack my network, it'll also be able to find and crack hidden networks.

No offense man but you were 100% wrong regarding the 1520's ability to use hidden networks so I am not going to open up my network based on your say so.

Having said that the location where I am going to be installing this particular router is remote and the people that are going to be using it are not tech savvy. The router I installed out there years ago doesn't even have encryption enabled let alone a hidden SSID... less out of state tech support calls for me. After dropping $200+ on a router and getting a new 1520 though I wanted to make sure they were working perfectly.

I have an Asus RT-AC66U (5GHz capable) and I connect my Lumia 1520 to it using the 5GHz channel.

Thanks for your help man. I did some speedtests and everything looks legit on the 5 GHz band. I will have to tinker with it some more to see what change really did the trick. In my initial tinkering I thought I disabled hiding the SSID and it still didn't work. Maybe I was mistaken or maybe it was a combination of things.

Basically it adds no security, but makes things more difficult to do when you need to.

Not sure I follow. You still need to enter the wifi password. Never had a problem with it till now. Wasn't even aware it was controversial.

 

[kb4000]

Indeed. Turning off the SSID has no actual practical application, and actually violates the WiFi standard.

It is basically like taking the numbers off your house for added privacy. All it does is make it hard for friends to find your house, and makes no difference to 'the man' as they have grid maps with addresses already listed.

Basically it adds no security, but makes things more difficult to do when you need to.

You're right about hidden ssid being pretty much useless but I've never heard of it violating WiFi standards. Do you have any articles or sources that explain more.

 

[Evan_ISS]

Indeed. Turning off the SSID has no actual practical application, and actually violates the WiFi standard.

It is basically like taking the numbers off your house for added privacy. All it does is make it hard for friends to find your house, and makes no difference to 'the man' as they have grid maps with addresses already listed.

Basically it adds no security, but makes things more difficult to do when you need to.

I read this response with interest. However it exhibits a complete consumer bias and doesn't take into consideration that the 1520 is also used (albeit in very small numbers) in the enterprise as well. Also can you explain the part where hiding the SSID violates the WiFi standard?

It is not uncommon in an enterprise environment for multiple SSIDs to coexist with differing authentication requirements as both internal and guest networks are on offer. It is also not uncommon for network admins to only expose guest (open) network(s).

My 1520 (for as long as I had it) had no problem connecting to hidden networks both at work and at home. Similarly my 920 (although it tends to play up a bit with WPA2-Ent).

To the OP (and other posters that managed to connect successfully at 5Ghz): the fact your 1520 manages to connect to a 5GHz SSID doesn't mean it is necessarily connected at 802.11ac speeds. The best way to confirm is either successfully connecting to a 5GHz/80MHz only SSID (if your router allows the configuration of one) or use your router/controller monitoring section to identify the connection.

 

[Morpheus Phreak]

As a reply that covers my response to both posters as regards the standards violation, check out this article:

Myth vs. reality: Wireless SSIDs - Steve Riley on Security - Site Home - TechNet Blogs


For a more specific response to Evan_ISS as regards Hidden SSIDs being useless:

I'm confused as to why you mention the 1520 at all in this scenario. Would you care to clarify?

What I was talking about is the fact that Hidden SSIDs do nothing to prevent connections and do not enhance security in any way.

The only thing they prevent is a casual browser from seeing that there is a network there. It does nothing to prevent people who sniff for networks being able to find it.

The only real benefit in Enterprise scenarios is that it prevents clutter on the list of available access points...quite literally the only benefit...but it is good that you mentioned that unintentional benefit, as it is a genuine one....seriously no snark.

 

[Citizen X]

To the OP (and other posters that managed to connect successfully at 5Ghz): the fact your 1520 manages to connect to a 5GHz SSID doesn't mean it is necessarily connected at 802.11ac speeds. The best way to confirm is either successfully connecting to a 5GHz/80MHz only SSID (if your router allows the configuration of one) or use your router/controller monitoring section to identify the connection.

I configured my router for just 5GHz/80MHz and it "worked." I didn't do anything other than an internet speed test from a room on the far side of a small house. I also forced N+AC only instead of auto configure.

Interestingly my phone could NOT see the 5GHz/80MHZ channel in airplane mode! I had to have cellular on! I turned cellular on and disabled cellular data and it could still see the 5GHz/80MHz channel. Initially I put the phone in airplane mode and just turned on wifi to do my wifi testing. But for whatever reason the 5 GHz/80MHz setup doesn't like that with my router/phone combination.

What I was talking about is the fact that Hidden SSIDs do nothing to prevent connections and do not enhance security in any way.

Does it really matter? The reality is hidden SSIDs exist on routers we need to use and do not control. As a side issue the academic discussion is interesting but if I need to connect my Lumia 1520 to a hidden 802.11ac 5GHz network whatever the "right" answer is is going to be of little comfort if I can't connect.

What irks me is when my girlfriend had a problem connecting to WPA2 networks with multiple iphones using multiple OSes the "geniuses" at the Apple Store just kept saying well it connects to our open network so the phone is fine. Online people suggested using a less secure encryption protocol. All those solutions were unacceptable. For one thing they exposed her to more security risks and even more pertinent was she wouldn't be able to connect to numerous networks... such as mine. I wasn't about to downgrade the security on my router in a crowded urban environment just to accommodate an iphone. Even if we accept the premise that openly broadcasting your SSID 24/7 doesn't open you up to any more security risks it still doesn't address what you do if you go to a coffee shop, bar, friend's home, work, etc. that has a hidden 802.11ac 5GHz network. I don't like working with misinformation nor having a false sense of security so I appreciate the contributions challenging the effectiveness of hidden networks from a security point of view but there are other practical real world considerations I have to take into account before abandoning my efforts to get it to work.

Anyway I will keep tinkering and report back.

 

[kb4000]

Does it really matter? The reality is hidden SSIDs exist on routers we need to use and do not control. As a side issue the academic discussion is interesting but if I need to connect my Lumia 1520 to a hidden 802.11ac 5GHz network whatever the "right" answer is is going to be of little comfort if I can't connect.

I gave instructions for connecting to hidden SSID networks above. Go to WiFi, then click advanced, then click add. All you do at that point is type in the SSID and password.

 

[Citizen X]

I gave instructions for connecting to hidden SSID networks above. Go to WiFi, then click advanced, then click add. All you do at that point is type in the SSID and password.

As I stated earlier most of the networks I connect to are hidden and I have no problems connecting to them... except 802.11ac 5GHz/80MHz hidden. That combination is an issue. I can do it if the SSID is not hidden but the minute I hide it no luck. I'm still tinkering so I will keep you guys updated.

 

[etzolin]

I have an Asus RT-AC66U. Connecting my Lumia 1520 (UK-version) to a "hidden" 5GHz network with 80MHz bandwidth isn't a problem, it works perfectly fine. Turning of cellular prevents me from discovering and connecting to a 5GHz network though, regardless of settings.

 

[Morpheus Phreak]

As I stated earlier most of the networks I connect to are hidden and I have no problems connecting to them... except 802.11ac 5GHz/80MHz hidden. That combination is an issue. I can do it if the SSID is not hidden but the minute I hide it no luck. I'm still tinkering so I will keep you guys updated.

...and this is why my discussion about Hidden SSIDs is important and not just an 'academic' discussion.

Settings that violate standards can have unforeseen effects. When you attempt to connect to an access point that is following the WiFi standard everything is working, under all test cases.

Think about that before brushing off my point about standards violations...

Think about the 90s and early 00s browser wars where standards were not followed. Things would work in one browser, but not another. Go to a different site and you'd find the opposite browser situation.

That's the situation with Hidden SSIDs today. Sometimes it will work just fine, and sometimes it won't, because it is not a standard.

 

[Citizen X]

...and this is why my discussion about Hidden SSIDs is important and not just an 'academic' discussion.

Settings that violate standards can have unforeseen effects. When you attempt to connect to an access point that is following the WiFi standard everything is working, under all test cases.

Think about that before brushing off my point about standards violations...

Think about the 90s and early 00s browser wars where standards were not followed. Things would work in one browser, but not another. Go to a different site and you'd find the opposite browser situation.

That's the situation with Hidden SSIDs today. Sometimes it will work just fine, and sometimes it won't, because it is not a standard.

So what am I supposed to do when I access the corporate network or a client's network or a friend's network? I mean most of the networks I access on a daily basis are hidden. Do you expect me to quote your take on standards to these people and have them change their network for me? Luckily they are not ac 5GHz/80MHz networks so I have never had a problem with hidden SSIDs.

I am trying to find out what the issue is because I have full access to the router and phone now. As I said earlier I probably won't even activate encryption on this router because it is going to be in a remote location and I don't want tech support hassles. I am just making sure I don't have a problem with the phone. I tend to keep my phone for almost two years. I just want to be sure before the warranty is over. I am all for standards and I am all for educating people about standards. But in the real world people don't seem to be following that particular standard and I have to deal with it.

I have an Asus RT-AC66U. Connecting my Lumia 1520 (UK-version) to a "hidden" 5GHz network with 80MHz bandwidth isn't a problem, it works perfectly fine. Turning of cellular prevents me from discovering and connecting to a 5GHz network though, regardless of settings.

Cool. Thanks. I've been busy and not very systematic in my testing. I may have skipped over a 5GHz/80MHz test with cellular on and a hidden SSID. I'll give it a try.

 

[etzolin]

If it's on a remote location it is better to enable remote management. Disabling encryption will leave the network very vulnerable. Always use WPA2 with AES encryption and WPS turned off.

Skrivet p? min Lumia 1520

 

[Morpheus Phreak]

So what am I supposed to do when I access the corporate network or a client's network or a friend's network? I mean most of the networks I access on a daily basis are hidden. Do you expect me to quote your take on standards to these people and have them change their network for me? Luckily they are not ac 5GHz/80MHz networks so I have never had a problem with hidden SSIDs.

I am trying to find out what the issue is because I have full access to the router and phone now. As I said earlier I probably won't even activate encryption on this router because it is going to be in a remote location and I don't want tech support hassles. I am just making sure I don't have a problem with the phone. I tend to keep my phone for almost two years. I just want to be sure before the warranty is over. I am all for standards and I am all for educating people about standards. But in the real world people don't seem to be following that particular standard and I have to deal with it.

No. I'm saying that you do have control over your own router. You may not be able to control what others do; but as you said, so far that hadn't been a problem.

The current problem that needed to be solved was a connection issue with your router. The issue is solved when you enable the mode that is standards compliant. Is it not?

I thought I was clear in my meaning. Am I mistaken? (Genuinely Confused, not being snarky)

If it's on a remote location it is better to enable remote management. Disabling encryption will leave the network very vulnerable. Always use WPA2 with AES encryption and WPS turned off.

Also yes, this. I cannot emphasize enough just how correct this post is.

 

[Citizen X]

I have an Asus RT-AC66U. Connecting my Lumia 1520 (UK-version) to a "hidden" 5GHz network with 80MHz bandwidth isn't a problem, it works perfectly fine. Turning of cellular prevents me from discovering and connecting to a 5GHz network though, regardless of settings.

I am such an *****. I sat down and did further testing that that seems to be the issue. The hidden SSID thing appears to have been a red herring. I guess normal people rarely turn off their cellular unless they are on a plane so they wouldn't have an issue. I only turned it off for testing purposes. Funny thing is if I never tested it there never would have been a problem!

A little bit of google turned up a couple of things that leads me to believe ac requires two antennas. I am no networking expert so don't quote me on that. But it does make sense. Thanks for all your help.