Nokia Lumia Icon Vs. Samsung Ativ SE

[Nogitsune Micah]

Oh i agree Build Quality is subjective though most people would agree that Samsung is not known for their Stellar Hardware.

Windows Phone problem isn't a lack of good hardware(Again we have Lumias that cover virtually every spec point and crap like the ATIV line).

It's Microsoft's slowness and the issue of the apps/games not being available(or not being at equal features as their counterparts). So many people always say we need this manufacturer or that manufacturer...No we need developers to really start giving a damn and properly supporting their apps.

I THINK i managed to convince my roommate to get the Icon. Between now and then i guess we will see, though I hope he does get the Nokia....

Well, we are agree to disagree. Build quality is subjective. There are many iPhones, Galaxies and Lumias out there with issues. They're TECH devices and lemons are out there.

Personally, I'd rather have more OEMs involved to give people choice. If you like Nokia, good for you. Whenever people ask me about what phone to get, I first ask them what THEY want the phone do, and show them how to phone shop smartly, not trying to convince them based on what I think they should get or not.

I've probably owned or used more cell phones than many people here will own in their life within the past 10 years. Build quality is subjective and individual.

 

[A895]

I had to like and thank that post because it was hilarious.
If i followed trends, I'd own an iPhone or a Galaxy and be on imore or android central not here with the 3rd best OS and smartphone.

It has nothing to do with being "Blind". If anything anyone who supports Samsung's rehash and lack of marketing and half-done support is Blind.

I've owned a 810, 920, 928, 1020 and 1520(not to mention my siblings have Lumias now thanks to me...521 and 1020 and my mother recently got a 1020 after trying the 925).

I've never had an issue with my hardware on any Lumia(Nor have they). I am not saying there are not issues. I am sure there are issues. There are issues with any phone. Nothing is perfect.

On the Android side, Samsung phones are essentially all hype and marketing. If I had to buy an Android phone, it would be a Sony or HTC or if necessary a Motorola. I'd buy a ZTE windows phone before I'd buy Samsung...and that's saying something.

Their phones feel cheap, they are uninspired with the design(Lumias follow the same design true...yet they are at least easily differentiated for the most part), Their UI on Android Phones is not that great and essentially a childish copy of other UI/OS(The Irony of Samsung Fans before calling Windows Phone UI childish...yet touchwiz is even worse. I remember those days on AC lol).

I remember poor reception and horrible GPS that Samsung Phones had...that were heavily reported and complained about(Samsung is NOT known for their stellar cellular reception). Camera is average at best. I can go on.

Samsung Fans are a lot like Apple fans....They will accept whatever Samsung throws out even if it is a rehash and scraps and they will band together against others who don't appreciate or accept rehashes. It's not even the fact that it is a rehash of hardware....It's the fact that not only you are giving us your recycled scraps, you don't do ANYTHING to market your devices and it proves you don't care enough about your customers.

I appreciate what Nokia has done and continued to do...Even HTC differentiated with their windows phones with Beats and a VERY attractive design. If a company with as bad luck as HTC managed to design some stellar hardware there is no reason Samsung Can't, other than they don't care. Nokia has in turn done way more for the platform than anyone and it's funny to me the Nokia hate people have because without Nokia, who would've gotten the apps we do have? Samsung? LMFAO

What does a Samsung Phone have that Nokia and Windows Phone have? What is that it factor that showcases they truly do care about their Windows Phone customers?

Oh I forgot...they have an SD Card and a slightly larger battery and an IR blaster...Cool then.

This is just blind Samsung hate. There is no other words for it. You can't open your mind enough to let other OEMs come in and make WPs? Small as the market share and user base is, Samsung coming and making WPs is a good thing no matter how you slice it.

 

[Nogitsune Micah]

This is just blind Samsung hate. There is no other words for it. You can't open your mind enough to let other OEMs come in and make WPs? Small as the market share and user base is, Samsung coming and making WPs is a good thing no matter how you slice it.

lol blind Samsung hate? K then. Unless sSamsung puts marketing behind this and any of their future devices nothing will change for them.

 

[A895]

lol blind Samsung hate? K then. Unless sSamsung puts marketing behind this and any of their future devices nothing will change for them.

Change for them? They are the biggest smartphone manufacturer on the planet, you should be asking is it going to make change for WP.

Sent from my XT907 using Mobile Nations mobile app

 

[freestaterocker]

If I were looking to replace my 8X I'd choose the Icon. Imaging and audio recording is far more important to me than a MicroSD slot. I've done well with 16 GB on the 8X and backup regularly to preserve my pictures and not run out of space that 32 GB would be more than enough.

I'm very curious to see if all the Samsung support calls I get for the Galaxy Note2/3 and S3/S4 transfer over to Windows Phone as well. I'm guessing they won't, cause I see a lot of the same issues on other Android phones as the Samsungs.

If the Ativ S is any indication, the answer would be no... In the almost year and a half I've had mine I haven't had to deal with light leaks, random reboots, poor battery life, warranty exchanges or replacements, none of the issues owners of multiple Nokia devices have had to deal with. I have a 32gb micro SD card with over 26gb of locally stored Xbox music pass content, and about 8gb worth of games and apps taking up space on the built in memory. The Ativ SE (provided it came to Canada) would've been my next phone, but the dedicated camera button is something I'm not prepared to give up just yet. This time around I'll be going with the Lumia 930. I guess I gotta start figuring out what's on my current phone that I can live without... :/

 

[Honestabebread]

Just to throw in my two cents, I think both devices have comparable selling points. The Icon has a better camera, wireless charging, 32GB storage and dat build quality. The SE has an IR blaster, SD card + removable battery, and probably a faster camera shutter. Really tough call with these two.

Sent from my QMV7A using Mobile Nations mobile app

 

[freestaterocker]

Why is everyone saying the ATIV SE is cheap plastic? Isn't it going to be a brushed aluminum phone? Samsung was mostly held back by the RAM hungry Android OS they're by no means a bad OEM. If you care about the long term success of WP as an OS then we need a major OEM like Samsung to push Nokia to new heights. No competition is only a bad thing for consumers. I own a Lumia 928 and my next phone with either be the Icon or ATIV SE I haven't decided yet. Unless of course the rumored Sony Windows Phone comes out and changes my mind before then.

No it's plastic made to look like brushed aluminum, just like the Ativ S that I'm typing this on. Imo it doesn't make it any lower quality. Here's some food for thought: if I drop the Ativ SE and the Icon from the same height at the same angle and they both fall and land identically, the laws of physics tell us that between the reduced force the Ativ lands with, thanks to its lower mass, and the flexible nature of plastic vs rigid aluminum, the screen of the Samsung will absorb less vibrational energy than the screen of the icon, and thereby be statistically less likely to break than that of the Icon. Heft and rigidity do not always translate to durability.

 

[mary beth hale]

comparing the lumia icon /Samsung ativ se is kind of an exercise in futility at this point, since the ativ has not had "hands on" or reviews yet. comparison on specs only often does not tell the whole story so I will be really interested to see what's written when it gets some "real-world" usage.
I certainly hope that when the ativ se is actually being used and critiqued, any arguments against it will be well thought out and transcend the usual "Samsung phones are plastic, unsupported trash" genre.

 

[Nogitsune Micah]

Sigh....and I was the one who was called Blind?

TL, DR: Overall, Unless Samsung begins to change and do something different with their windows phones, they will be at the bottom of the barrel. Samsung fans can gobble up their recylced phones...I prefer to go for the company who at least innovates and works hard for the OS

I am aware that they are the biggest smartphone manufacturer but i meant change for them on the Windows Phone side. it doesn't matter what phone they throw out...on paper the SE sounds great and all with its specs but unless they change they wait they treat their windows phones and their customers, nothing will change for them. Eventually, someone will start challenging them(I certainly hope so....LG already is) on Android and it won't surprise me if i hear that Samsung is starting to go the apple route(they already copy apple as is) with people starting to become bored with them. It's already happening with the GS5

People keep saying they want this OEM to come out and that is the wrong way of looking at it. If these OEMS are just goign to make a phone and throw it out there(Samsung's Method) then yes they can keep their crap because don't give us or any potential customers something is going to look good but other than that you don't do anything with it. If they are going to throw out just something to say they have something there...Which is likely what is happening with the SE, then they can keep it because it won't help the Market share much. LOoks at the Lumia line up and the current ATIV line-up as of today.

It's like having someone work on a big project together. You have that one person who is 110 percent dedicated(Nokia), the one who tries their best but they are not exactly the strongest teamplayer(HTC) and then you have that one that is just showing up jus tot say they were there, and later reap any type of success while not really doing anything and letting the others do the work.

Here's an Example....Samsung's hideously made/designed Galaxy Zoom...Considering that Nokia already brought something like the 1020 out, why not try to make it a go with a Galaxy Zoom with Windows Phone?

Their Galaxy Mega which i believe is larger than my 1020...Why not bring it to Windows Phone side if they are going to rehash something? It could compete with the 1320.

If Nokia could do it, Samsung can....they just don't want to because of course they can screw up the OS like they do with Android and thank goodness for that.

On the plus side, I managed to convince my roommate to get an Icon so all is well now.

Change for them? They are the biggest smartphone manufacturer on the planet, you should be asking is it going to make change for WP.

Sent from my XT907 using Mobile Nations mobile app

 

[Nogitsune Micah]

That may be true....but at the same time, I'd prefer a company make a well designed phone vs a cheaply made phone.....The Icon looks and feels premium

The ATIV S(and alll of Samsung's Phones)...don't.

I'd take the more fragile phone if it meant i was actually getting my money's worth with it.,

No it's plastic made to look like brushed aluminum, just like the Ativ S that I'm typing this on. Imo it doesn't make it any lower quality. Here's some food for thought: if I drop the Ativ SE and the Icon from the same height at the same angle and they both fall and land identically, the laws of physics tell us that between the reduced force the Ativ lands with, thanks to its lower mass, and the flexible nature of plastic vs rigid aluminum, the screen of the Samsung will absorb less vibrational energy than the screen of the icon, and thereby be statistically less likely to break than that of the Icon. Heft and rigidity do not always translate to durability.

 

[A895]

Sigh....and I was the one who was called Blind?

TL, DR: Overall, Unless Samsung begins to change and do something different with their windows phones, they will be at the bottom of the barrel. Samsung fans can gobble up their recylced phones...I prefer to go for the company who at least innovates and works hard for the OS

I am aware that they are the biggest smartphone manufacturer but i meant change for them on the Windows Phone side. it doesn't matter what phone they throw out...on paper the SE sounds great and all with its specs but unless they change they wait they treat their windows phones and their customers, nothing will change for them. Eventually, someone will start challenging them(I certainly hope so....LG already is) on Android and it won't surprise me if i hear that Samsung is starting to go the apple route(they already copy apple as is) with people starting to become bored with them. It's already happening with the GS5

People keep saying they want this OEM to come out and that is the wrong way of looking at it. If these OEMS are just goign to make a phone and throw it out there(Samsung's Method) then yes they can keep their crap because don't give us or any potential customers something is going to look good but other than that you don't do anything with it. If they are going to throw out just something to say they have something there...Which is likely what is happening with the SE, then they can keep it because it won't help the Market share much. LOoks at the Lumia line up and the current ATIV line-up as of today.

It's like having someone work on a big project together. You have that one person who is 110 percent dedicated(Nokia), the one who tries their best but they are not exactly the strongest teamplayer(HTC) and then you have that one that is just showing up jus tot say they were there, and later reap any type of success while not really doing anything and letting the others do the work.

Here's an Example....Samsung's hideously made/designed Galaxy Zoom...Considering that Nokia already brought something like the 1020 out, why not try to make it a go with a Galaxy Zoom with Windows Phone?

Their Galaxy Mega which i believe is larger than my 1020...Why not bring it to Windows Phone side if they are going to rehash something? It could compete with the 1320.

If Nokia could do it, Samsung can....they just don't want to because of course they can screw up the OS like they do with Android and thank goodness for that.

On the plus side, I managed to convince my roommate to get an Icon so all is well now.

So obviously you don't want no other OEM besides Nokia. That's okay. Just say it. Considering the amount of Samsung Ativ SE posts lately, there are some that are interested. No matter what I say, you are biased towards Nokia. That's ok, we all have favorite OEMs.

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[radmanvr]

And you have to say it because? you think someone cares?

So you are saying that you would never share a thought unless you thought someone cared?

 

[Nogitsune Micah]

So obviously you don't want no other OEM besides Nokia. That's okay. Just say it. Considering the amount of Samsung Ativ SE posts lately, there are some that are interested. No matter what I say, you are biased towards Nokia. That's ok, we all have favorite OEMs.

Posted via the WPC App for Android!

I don't want any manufacturer who is not going to put the muscle behind the OS to help bring attention to it. Simply releasing a phone won't do.

I am a nokia fan but there are things about Nokia I wish that were better. I am not blind to anything with Nokia or windows phone.

Of course people are interested in the phone....aside from the icon/930, this is unfortunately the only other high end phone. That really doesn't mean anything

This phone likely will be just like the odyssey before it...a Samsung windows phone that Verizon sells that nobody bought because they didn't market it or add an it factor.

Wait....i keep forgetting. The it factor is its sd card and ir blaster.

(I wonder if the icon had the removable battery and sd card and ir blaster what would the excuse be then)

 

[A895]

I don't want any manufacturer who is not going to put the muscle behind the OS to help bring attention to it. Simply releasing a phone won't do.

I am a nokia fan but there are things about Nokia I wish that were better. I am not blind to anything with Nokia or windows phone.

Of course people are interested in the phone....aside from the icon/930, this is unfortunately the only other high end phone. That really doesn't mean anything

This phone likely will be just like the odyssey before it...a Samsung windows phone that Verizon sells that nobody bought because they didn't market it or add an it factor.

Wait....i keep forgetting. The it factor is its sd card and ir blaster.

(I wonder if the icon had the removable battery and sd card and ir blaster what would the excuse be then)

Samsung does not have to out extra effort in something that is not its bread and butter. They put out the obligatory WP here and there, but their money is with Android and ghats where the $$$ for marketing goes. It's a case of if someone goes in a Verizon store are they going to be told the pros and cons of the SE and the Icon in order go make an informed decision? The Odyssey was a terrible phone, but the Ativ SE is miles better, so it might do much better. Samsung is not just doing nothing, they put an IR blaster, Samsung Casting software, and Attic Beam to send stuff to other NFC devices. Its not as half hearted as before.

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[mary beth hale]

I've noticed most conversation re: Samsung vs Nokia end up with the Nokia faction taking on almost a religious fervor, especially when it comes to any question of support.
When Nokia started making Windows Phones they HAD to go in all or nothing. They HAD to support it to the Nth degree. Someone in a previous thread used the "all their eggs in one basket" analogy and that is an apt comparison. Nokia was drowning at the time. Did this commitment to Windows OS result in beautiful phones that took wonderful advantage of the Windows OS? Absolutely! But Nokia is a big business, not a humanitarian entity that took on Windows Phone out of the goodness of their heart. Hopefully Samsung will throw some of its massive marketing power towards these new phones, resulting in a larger/stronger Windows Phone market share.

 

[Kage Maru]

I don't want any manufacturer who is not going to put the muscle behind the OS to help bring attention to it. Simply releasing a phone won't do.

I am a nokia fan but there are things about Nokia I wish that were better. I am not blind to anything with Nokia or windows phone.

Of course people are interested in the phone....aside from the icon/930, this is unfortunately the only other high end phone. That really doesn't mean anything

This phone likely will be just like the odyssey before it...a Samsung windows phone that Verizon sells that nobody bought because they didn't market it or add an it factor.

Wait....i keep forgetting. The it factor is its sd card and ir blaster.

(I wonder if the icon had the removable battery and sd card and ir blaster what would the excuse be then)

I'm sorry but it's mentality like yours that is ruining this thread. I agree that Samsung could better market their WP phones, but so can MS and Nokia IMO. Just because they don't market their WP products properly, that shouldn't change the stance people have on the phone.

Some people prefer the lighter feel of samsung phones, some like the look, some people really do want a high end regular sized phone that also has SD card support. Whatever the reason may be, you should look into the definition of preferences and opinions and stop acting like yours is the only one that should matter. You act like people are making excuses to want this phone and point to the features. Well the features are the reason people want the phone, no different than any Nokia, HTC, or LG phone. It's all about the features, not the excuses as you insinuate here.

You think Samsung phones are cheap, low quality phones compared to Nokia. Fine, we get it. As you can see by this thread, other people don't agree and would happily buy this phone.

Why do you go out of your way to **** on their parade like you do?

This is an Icon Vs. Ativ thread, not a "Samsung phones suck, nobody wants them, they are cheap, and other regurgitated bull**** that has been posted" thread. How about you learn this already.

I'm saying all this as a huge fan of Nokia phones and a current happy owner of an Icon. Still, you and people like you are ****ting up this thread for absolutely no good reason.

 

[Nogitsune Micah]

Isn't it true that when the ATIV line was announced? Samsung cancelled plans to sell their devices(Phone and Tablet/PC) because of low interest despite the fact they really didn't market said devices aka a new product? Okay then...and I was wrong for saying Samsung doesn't much care to market their devices or support their products how exactly?

Personally, I do find people are being a bit too sensitive/overdramatic about this. I gave my opinion about why i thought OP should keep the Icon over the SE(if you noticed my original post was not anything extremely bad). I was respectful(and for the most part, I have been still respectful aside from sarcastic).

I am not "Shi**ing on anyone's parade" and if someone is really that offended because i said that I feel that Samsung's phones are cheap feeling(Which to me they are and i am not the only one who believes that). Something is wrong if someone is offended by that...
That is my opinion.

If someone is offended because I said Samsung does not properly support their devices as best they could....you can't get mad at that. Unlike the first part about the Build Quality/Material aka my opinion, this is fact. They do not support their products. I could get behind the cheap feeling plastic of Samsung(In fact, i have owned many galaxies in the past). If there was no Nokia Lumia devices ever thought of, I likely WOULD have a Samsung or an HTC(or God Forbid, I'd still be on android...there's a scary thought).

I can't get behind a company who shells out the same usual crap they usually do just to say "I have one too.

I never once said my opinion is the only one that matters. Do I think I am right? Of course. But i also at the same time realize, I feel this way and those who use Samsung or like them may not. I do advise you to look at your post and what you're saying to me because the moment someone speaks negatively about Samsung being cheap or not supporting the devices, people get offended. It's a PHONE and a MANUFACTURER...Not the end of the world. Have a friendly debate and discussion(Which is what i thought this initially was about). Don't get upset because someone called your manufacturer and phone of choice cheap.

I know there are some Samsung haters who go around saying(Samdung, Crapsung, etc etc) now that is absolutely immature and stupid but nobody in this threat should be getting mad with me for my opinion because it is just that my opinion.

I respect ANY and every OEM who comes to Windows Phone ready to show us what they have to offer. Samsung to date has literally shown me nothing they can offer and nothing I can respect.

It does not Matter if Nokia is "All In With" windows phone....Samsung as pointed in this thread is the "planet's largest manufacturer". If a company with the issues Nokia has had managed to bring out awesome hardware like 1020 and 1520 and even a super cheap phone like the 520/521...Samsung could do the same thing if they wanted and likely have done so if they wished to do so. They aren't hurting for money and considering I am willing to bet more people brought Lumia 1520s than the niche Galaxy zoom, they could have done great things with windows phone by now.

They don't because they don't care and that is why I speak up anytime Samsung is mentioned alongside nokia. On paper, the specs may match(or even beat) a Lumia...but i look at the overall picture and unless Samsung is going to change the way they are with windows phone, the SE will be just another great phone from a manufacturer who doesn't care too much for its customers and if you are happy with getting rehashes and recycled products, then so be it.

But don't get defensive and sensitive if someone calls Samsung out on it.
Being a fan of Nokia has nothing to do with it, I'd still not want a thing to do with Samsung even if I was on Android....they are a company that copies others and profits off cheap and tacky imitation and their devices are hyped up galore.

I'm sorry but it's mentality like yours that is ruining this thread. I agree that Samsung could better market their WP phones, but so can MS and Nokia IMO. Just because they don't market their WP products properly, that shouldn't change the stance people have on the phone.

Some people prefer the lighter feel of samsung phones, some like the look, some people really do want a high end regular sized phone that also has SD card support. Whatever the reason may be, you should look into the definition of preferences and opinions and stop acting like yours is the only one that should matter. You act like people are making excuses to want this phone and point to the features. Well the features are the reason people want the phone, no different than any Nokia, HTC, or LG phone. It's all about the features, not the excuses as you insinuate here.

You think Samsung phones are cheap, low quality phones compared to Nokia. Fine, we get it. As you can see by this thread, other people don't agree and would happily buy this phone.

Why do you go out of your way to **** on their parade like you do?

This is an Icon Vs. Ativ thread, not a "Samsung phones suck, nobody wants them, they are cheap, and other regurgitated bull**** that has been posted" thread. How about you learn this already.

I'm saying all this as a huge fan of Nokia phones and a current happy owner of an Icon. Still, you and people like you are ****ting up this thread for absolutely no good reason.

 

[A895]

Isn't it true that when the ATIV line was announced? Samsung cancelled plans to sell their devices(Phone and Tablet/PC) because of low interest despite the fact they really didn't market said devices aka a new product? Okay then...and I was wrong for saying Samsung doesn't much care to market their devices or support their products how exactly?

Personally, I do find people are being a bit too sensitive/overdramatic about this. I gave my opinion about why i thought OP should keep the Icon over the SE(if you noticed my original post was not anything extremely bad). I was respectful(and for the most part, I have been still respectful aside from sarcastic).

I am not "Shi**ing on anyone's parade" and if someone is really that offended because i said that I feel that Samsung's phones are cheap feeling(Which to me they are and i am not the only one who believes that). Something is wrong if someone is offended by that...
That is my opinion.

If someone is offended because I said Samsung does not properly support their devices as best they could....you can't get mad at that. Unlike the first part about the Build Quality/Material aka my opinion, this is fact. They do not support their products. I could get behind the cheap feeling plastic of Samsung(In fact, i have owned many galaxies in the past). If there was no Nokia Lumia devices ever thought of, I likely WOULD have a Samsung or an HTC(or God Forbid, I'd still be on android...there's a scary thought).

I can't get behind a company who shells out the same usual crap they usually do just to say "I have one too.

I never once said my opinion is the only one that matters. Do I think I am right? Of course. But i also at the same time realize, I feel this way and those who use Samsung or like them may not. I do advise you to look at your post and what you're saying to me because the moment someone speaks negatively about Samsung being cheap or not supporting the devices, people get offended. It's a PHONE and a MANUFACTURER...Not the end of the world. Have a friendly debate and discussion(Which is what i thought this initially was about). Don't get upset because someone called your manufacturer and phone of choice cheap.

I know there are some Samsung haters who go around saying(Samdung, Crapsung, etc etc) now that is absolutely immature and stupid but nobody in this threat should be getting mad with me for my opinion because it is just that my opinion.

I respect ANY and every OEM who comes to Windows Phone ready to show us what they have to offer. Samsung to date has literally shown me nothing they can offer and nothing I can respect.

It does not Matter if Nokia is "All In With" windows phone....Samsung as pointed in this thread is the "planet's largest manufacturer". If a company with the issues Nokia has had managed to bring out awesome hardware like 1020 and 1520 and even a super cheap phone like the 520/521...Samsung could do the same thing if they wanted and likely have done so if they wished to do so. They aren't hurting for money and considering I am willing to bet more people brought Lumia 1520s than the niche Galaxy zoom, they could have done great things with windows phone by now.

They don't because they don't care and that is why I speak up anytime Samsung is mentioned alongside nokia. On paper, the specs may match(or even beat) a Lumia...but i look at the overall picture and unless Samsung is going to change the way they are with windows phone, the SE will be just another great phone from a manufacturer who doesn't care too much for its customers and if you are happy with getting rehashes and recycled products, then so be it.

But don't get defensive and sensitive if someone calls Samsung out on it.
Being a fan of Nokia has nothing to do with it, I'd still not want a thing to do with Samsung even if I was on Android....they are a company that copies others and profits off cheap and tacky imitation and their devices are hyped up galore.

How is the same usual crap? They haven't made a WP since 2012.

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[Nogitsune Micah]

How is the same usual crap? They haven't made a WP since 2012.

Posted via the WPC App for Android!

Samsung Usual Crap= Let me throw out a rehash of our Android version, slightly tweaked and then toss it to the market and then barely market it. When sales don't do very well, I'll blame windows phone/Microsoft aka what they have done with the Ativ S...and the ATIV S Neo which came out almost a year after the original ATIV S. Oh and let's not forget the oft-forgotten Odyssey.

We aren't going to make a windows phone with any defining features...Let's just make one and be done.

I can only hope that HTC may decide to continue their 8x lineup as those truly were the best looking devices I've seen tbh(if only they were a little thicker). While an M8 type of phone would be amazing hardware wise, I hope they do another 8x line.

 

[ret18057]

Got it. Noted. As I was told when I disagreed with Nokia shooting rays of golden sunshine out their azz, move on. Or don't buy one. We heard you, you don't like Samsung. Glad you don't have one...