OEMs aren't doing any favors to Microsoft

red grenadine

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This is in regards to the new HTC phones, but holds true for the first generation of phones.

The HTC Radar is basically a Trophy painted white with a front-facing camera. 8GB of storage with no SD card option (I haven't seen anything about this, so correct me if I'm wrong) is just inexcusable for something attempting to compete with the iPhone or the latest Android devices.

The HTC Titan is interesting, but I'm not convinced it'll find widespread adoption, as a screen that big almost relegates it to a niche market. Even so, a huge phone like this still has only 16GB of storage? Really?

Where is the mainstream 4" / 4.3" screen phone with 32gb of memory, standard?

The first generation of Windows Phones seemed to be Android retreads and cast-offs (LQ Quantum, really?), and even the best phone (Samsung Focus, which I have) shipped with only 8GB of storage and a SD card option that was troublesome at best and headache inducing at worst (as I and many others with SD card reset/erasing issues can attest to).

Looking at the leaked Nokia 703 device - 3.7" screen with 8GB storage? Seriously Nokia? I understand if it's an entry level device, but God, I hope that isn't the Nokia Sea-Ray we've all been salivating about. I really hope their flagship variant knocks our socks off, because if it isn't Nokia, then I don't know who else. Maybe Samsung.

Hopefully the Samsung Galaxy 2 variant for Windows Phone will be a high-spec'd trendsetter.

Oh well, just venting. It really doesn't seem like Microsoft's hardware partners are setting the platform up for success with awesome, mainstream phones with great build qualities and at a minimum, 16GB of storage with 32GB preferred.
 

smartpatrol

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I don't see the problem. Titan looks like a damn good superphone to me. Bigger screens are the future (look at the US Galaxy S2 variants). Radar looks like a good competitor to the Incredible 2, which has been selling like hotcakes.

As for Nokia, we already know they are making a whole range of devices. 703 will be a mid-range device judging by the model #. There are still the Sea Ray and the mysterious 800 that have popped up recently.

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theefman

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You can bet one of the first articles on xda will be how to upgrade the storage without voiding your warranty. Instead of demanding better devices people will buy this and try and hack around the limitations then wonder why htc continues to produce such devices.
 

Reflexx

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The Titan looked okay. 1.5 Ghz. Probably a better GPU attached to that. HDMI out is nice.

I'm not really impressed with the Nokia. Though I'm glad to see it's a 7xx series device. I'm sure it will be good for mid-range customers.

I want a premium smartphone though. I'd be happy with a Nokia version of the Titan. But maybe with a 4.1" screen. And 32 GB of storage space. And those awesome Nokia cameras.
 

Reflexx

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I wonder if limiting the onboard storage is a conscious decision made to push skydrive?

I suppose it's possible. Though I don't think it's all that likely.

These are the OEMs that are doing this. Not Microsoft. The OEMs don't benefit from SkyDrive. But maybe they figure that the existence of SkyDrive is an excuse to not invest more in memory.

Some companies, like HTC, actually use a an internal non-accessible SD card for their storage. The support for this was built-in for the purpose of allowing OEMs to easily make different versions of the same model with different storage capabilities. They could just change what SD card was in it.

So there could be Phone X-8GB. And also Phone X-16GB. And Phone X-32GB. And all of these phones could be exactly the same except for the size of the SD card that is inside.
 

theefman

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The Titan looked okay. 1.5 Ghz. Probably a better GPU attached to that. HDMI out is nice.

I'm not really impressed with the Nokia. Though I'm glad to see it's a 7xx series device. I'm sure it will be good for mid-range customers.

I want a premium smartphone though. I'd be happy with a Nokia version of the Titan. But maybe with a 4.1" screen. And 32 GB of storage space. And those awesome Nokia cameras.

Compare the leaked Nokia to the Radar and its immediately more impressive because the camera, call and build quality will be better. I think a 9xx Nokia phone will show exactly what Nokia is made of.
 

Umm Yeah

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The OEMs are the ones who decide how much internal memory to include and I have no idea why they haven't at least offered a 32GB phone yet but it's MS who makes is keeping the OEMs from offering removable storage. Only that one Samsung WP7 phone has it and it was included in error from what I'd heard and you have to use only class 4 SD cards and they even need to be of a certain type to work. Even my creaky old BlackBerry can do removable storage. MS REALLY needs to rethink this idea of limiting removable storage.
 

theefman

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The OEMs are the ones who decide how much internal memory to include and I have no idea why they haven't at least offered a 32GB phone yet but it's MS who makes is keeping the OEMs from offering removable storage. Only that one Samsung WP7 phone has it and it was included in error from what I'd heard and you have to use only class 4 SD cards and they even need to be of a certain type to work. Even my creaky old BlackBerry can do removable storage. MS REALLY needs to rethink this idea of limiting removable storage.

You covered the problem right there, since no card can be guaranteed to work with WP7 its better to eliminate them as a potential point of failure from the beginning. If every WP7 device to date had an accessible storage card slot like the Focus the issues and resulting complaints would be horrendous. Its just because OEM's have been cheap that we havent seen more devices with more than 16GB. The Dell and the Fujitsu are the exceptions as they can both be had in 32GB versions.

Strange though that the more popular brands are the ones skimping on the storage amounts, isnt it?
 

Reflexx

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You covered the problem right there, since no card can be guaranteed to work with WP7 its better to eliminate them as a potential point of failure from the beginning. If every WP7 device to date had an accessible storage card slot like the Focus the issues and resulting complaints would be horrendous. Its just because OEM's have been cheap that we havent seen more devices with more than 16GB. The Dell and the Fujitsu are the exceptions as they can both be had in 32GB versions.

Strange though that the more popular brands are the ones skimping on the storage amounts, isnt it?

Also keep in mind that it's not like the working cards don't exist and aren't identifiable.

HTC uses SD cards for all of their internal storage on Windows Phone. They don't just do trial and error. There must be a certain type of card that will work. Something optimized for random memory access speeds.

But that metric is not something that is checked for in cards that are made available to consumers. And there isn't a large enough market for SD card makers to create a whole consumer line based on those cards. So they're only sold to corporations.
 

Umm Yeah

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Also keep in mind that it's not like the working cards don't exist and aren't identifiable.

HTC uses SD cards for all of their internal storage on Windows Phone. They don't just do trial and error. There must be a certain type of card that will work. Something optimized for random memory access speeds.

But that metric is not something that is checked for in cards that are made available to consumers. And there isn't a large enough market for SD card makers to create a whole consumer line based on those cards. So they're only sold to corporations.

They already exist! There are "Windows Phone 7 certified microSD cards" available. They were announced back in November - First Windows Phone 7 officially certified microSD card announced: Sandisk 8GB? | wpcentral | Windows Phone News, Forums, and Reviews
 

Reflexx

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They already exist! There are "Windows Phone 7 certified microSD cards" available. They were announced back in November - First Windows Phone 7 officially certified microSD card announced: Sandisk 8GB? | wpcentral | Windows Phone News, Forums, and Reviews

Well, in the Focus manual it actually says that the only certified card is a 8 GB SanDisk.

What I meant with my earlier comment is that there is a metric to be able to identify cards that will work. So it would be nice to have 16 GB cards available. Or 32 GB cards. But they aren't available to consumers.

So other than the 8 GB SanDisk Class 2... everything else is a risk.
 

red grenadine

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Reflexx

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With that said, I have heard great things from people who managed to get Samsung branded cards. I haven't heard of any problems with them. But they aren't generally sold directly to consumers. Even on Samsung's site they don't sell them.
 

GekkoAce

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Holly cow... The two guys in this video should be fired!

Viddler.com - HTC Titan hands-on - Uploaded by engadget

How could the HTC rep say that Twitter isn't in the People Hub. How could he not know that the bigger screen has the same resolution so that the apps don't get fragmented. This interview just proves how little companies and the press care about WP7. Come on Engadget! WTF!!
Obviously HTC has not included Micro SD cards in their products becasue of MS's lousy implementation (requiring a complete restore when the card is changed).

I'm so frustrated. How can people like this get such cool jobs like they have, just showing off phones, and be so crappy at it.. <sigh>
 

smartpatrol

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AFAIK the reason for the weird SD card situation is that the SD card in WP7 is treated as an extension of its file system. It's not just a removable storage device like it is in every other OS. Not sure why they designed it this way.
 

GekkoAce

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AFAIK the reason for the weird SD card situation is that the SD card in WP7 is treated as an extension of its file system. It's not just a removable storage device like it is in every other OS. Not sure why they designed it this way.

I get that... I hope they have something up their sleeves and there's a bigger reason... Like maybe full encryption on the phones filesystem and OS? Would be niiiice. haha
 

Umm Yeah

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AFAIK the reason for the weird SD card situation is that the SD card in WP7 is treated as an extension of its file system. It's not just a removable storage device like it is in every other OS. Not sure why they designed it this way.

That's my understanding as well. But they should allow there to be internal as well as external storage. Or allow a one time only upgrade that then ties into the WP7 OS. So you could buy an empty WP7 phone with no storage other than RAM maybe and buy the SD card of your choice separately. Or at least REQUIRE that OEMs have phones for sale of 8, 16, and 32GB sizes.
 

threed61

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The strange thing about the windows phones having so little memory is that these are supposed to replace the Zune players. 5 to 13 gb of available memory isn't much to the folks who were rocking 32 to 120.
 

psychotron

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The HTC Titan is interesting, but I'm not convinced it'll find widespread adoption, as a screen that big almost relegates it to a niche market.

Honestly, you see that as a detractor? Perhaps you haven't noticed the throngs of people falling all over themselves to get their hands on the Galaxy S II, which has nearly the same size screen. ;) For whatever reason these sub-tablet size displays seem to be all the rage at the moment.
 

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