OEMs aren't doing any favors to Microsoft

[Pronk]

Yeah, but the Galaxy S2 also has a SAMOLED display at 960 x 540 and a screaming fast processor. The Titan is *just* big - that's all it has going for it.

I think it's going to be more niche than flagship - especially when other OEMs get their new handsets out. I'm really quite disappointed in HTC to be honest - I was hoping for something that's by far best in class like the original Droid Incredible or at least a solid bargain like the Wildfire. Instead there's a lukewarm re-do of the Trophy merged with the Mozart, and what could have been a great phone had it not been on steroids.

 

[smartpatrol]

Galaxy S2's screen is only 800x480 not 960x540.

And look at the dimensions of the Titan: 131.5 x 70.7 x 9.9. HD7 is 122 x 68 x 11.2. It's really only slightly bigger than the HD7, and it's actually slimmer. I think there can be a huge market for 4.7" devices with this form factor. This phone is not nearly as big as people are assuming it is. I bet it will feel great once you get your hands on.

 

[Pronk]

Sorry, yep - you're right. Regardless, that SAMOLED screen is still a big selling point for the GS2. And it's smaller, so higher pixel density as well.

And I think big phones can be a success, but I just don't think the Titan has enough other than being big. After all, if you're going to make something that's a statement (and if you pulled out a phone as big as the Titan, that's clearly what you'd be making), it should really deliver on all fronts.

 

[Sparxy19]

I think from what the boys who went to the htc event said, the phones screens are probably more viabrant and sharp than the screens on the Omnia 7 so they cant be to bad.... It would be interesting to compare the screen on the TITAN to the GS2

 

[Dave Blake]

Will any OEM ever make a device that is rite for everyone? Its not possible to put it all in the same device these new devices are already way to expensive INHO if they added all the things the OP wants the device cost would surely go up. I think the Titan is a good balance of hardware but the cost is still to high. It will be interesting what the subsidized price will be is $300 plus 2 year contract to much money to spend?

 

[red grenadine]

Will any OEM ever make a device that is rite for everyone? Its not possible to put it all in the same device these new devices are already way to expensive INHO if they added all the things the OP wants the device cost would surely go up. I think the Titan is a good balance of hardware but the cost is still to high. It will be interesting what the subsidized price will be is $300 plus 2 year contract to much money to spend?

I'm basically looking for a samsung focus with 32gb standard onboard memory, front facing camera, and better build quality

You can't tell me that's more expensive than the behemoth that is the titan. And even if it was, so what, market it as THE flagship WP7 phone.

Like i said, maybe it'll be the new Samsung Galaxy S2 variant or Nokia Sea Ray. I'm just hoping the OEMs do better this time around than last time

 

[velvetelvis]

maybe ms needs to do what google does and release "their" version of the phone alongside the oem's? but wait, isnt that what nokia is supposed to be?

 

[Dusteater]

It's all just taking too long. That is the biggest problem. I would consider myself to be a pretty big Microsoft ******. If I don't even have a Windows Phone yet because there isn't one on Sprint with global roaming then something is wrong. So, I wait for something new to come out on AT&T... and keep waiting... At this point I don't expect to have a Windows Phone until well into 2012. Everything that has been announced or rumored is only coming to Europe this year. I am not holding my breath to see a single Mango device in the USA in 2011.

 

[theefman]

It's all just taking too long. That is the biggest problem. I would consider myself to be a pretty big Microsoft ******. If I don't even have a Windows Phone yet because there isn't one on Sprint with global roaming then something is wrong. So, I wait for something new to come out on AT&T... and keep waiting... At this point I don't expect to have a Windows Phone until well into 2012. Everything that has been announced or rumored is only coming to Europe this year. I am not holding my breath to see a single Mango device in the USA in 2011.

Well in the US carrier are king, so if no carrier shows interest in carrying any new WP7 there is no way to get one officially, especially on CDMA carriers like Sprint and Verizon. People can import devices for use on GSM carriers like T-mo and att but thats probably at the expense of 3G and will be expensive.

Then you figure in the fact tha US carriers are all basically android fanboys and you can see why Europe would be first, as you can still release devices there that can either be bought unlocked or with a contract from 3rd party vendors.

So sadly, for all the talk from MS and the advantage in services the US has WP7 uptake in the US is likely to be on the slow side for a long time.

 

[Reflexx]

Unfortunately, MS isn't really plating in a position of strength yet. And while there are a bunch of things we wish MS could force carriers to do, it isn't going to happen. If US carriers tell MS to f*** off, then WP is dead.

After there is an established and strong ecosystem, then MS might have some leverage. Though, they might have to actually team up with Apple and Google when it comes to pushing around carriers.

Apple has been doing all they can. But there is only so much even they can do right now. It will take multiple strong systems combined to make a difference. Google hasn't put much pressure yet. But it feels like it's just a matter of time.

 

[theefman]

Which is why Microsoft should be pushing with all they have in the area they DO control, the OS. Still cant believe no backup, no BT audio when playing videos, no real, top notch 1st party game from MGS. So OEM's dont care to do their best because the OS is still lacking, and carriers likewise are not too interested because they dont have any compelling handsets to woo customers with. And then so many WP7 services dont work around the world so how are they going to get any leverage? They are moving too slowly so its no wonder carriers and OEM's alike arent rushing to support it.

 

[Reflexx]

Too slowly?

This is an OS. Not a simple application.

They practically started over with Windows Phone. And in this short time they've created something pretty awesome.

The Mango update contains over 500 improvements. I wouldn't classify that as veven remotely slow.

Unless code is supposed to pop out of thin air.

 

[Pronk]

No, too slowly is valid because they knew what everyone else had. iOS and Android have been around for 5 years or so now. MS dragged their heels with WM6.5 and launched WP7 well after iOS and Android with a LOT missing. It really only became decent and able to hold its own with NoDo.

If they were a small startup, fair enough. But they're one of the biggest, richest companies in the world. If WP7 is to succeed they need to be on par or better right now, not in 6 months time. Mango addresses that to a large extent, but seriously - with pockets as deep as MS have, how did they let it take so long? Code may not pop out of thin air - but if you need more code, hire more coders.

 

[theefman]

Sadly the only ones who seem to think they've actually have created something awesome are us, people who have got a WP7 device. Doesnt seem to be encouraging the kind of enthusiasm from oem's and carriers they are displaying for android.

Let me ask, with Mango adding so many features is there any patricular reason OEM's should not be stepping up their game, in device design and promotion of their upcoming WP7 devices? Why is it that they seem so reluctant to even mention they make WP7 handsets, like it seems Samsung is? They make a sale either way so what's really going on?

 

[foosball]

Sadly the only ones who seem to think they've actually have created something awesome are us, people who have got a WP7 device. Doesnt seem to be encouraging the kind of enthusiasm from oem's and carriers they are displaying for android.



Let me ask, with Mango adding so many features is there any patricular reason OEM's should not be stepping up their game, in device design and promotion of their upcoming WP7 devices? Why is it that they seem so reluctant to even mention they make WP7 handsets, like it seems Samsung is? They make a sale either way so what's really going on?

I'm curious about this too because its so blatantly apparent that they are shoving Android down consumer's throats. Every damn contact I get from Sprint is Android this or that. It appears more momentum related than anything else but after awhile it does feel conspiratorial.

Sent from my HTC Arrive using Board Express

 

[wolf1891]

...Code may not pop out of thin air - but if you need more code, hire more coders.

okay... now I'm not really looking to defend MS on this topic but... as a programmer I kinda resented this particular statement of yours. First off, are you a programmer? Because if so then you should know that it's not just a case of throwing bodies behind keyboards to get results. Good code takes TIME to design, develop, and TEST. Extra coders can help (in certain areas) but, it's more important to have the few, BEST programmers you can find doing what they do best rather than lots of mediocre to average coders doing okay work that will then require tons more time in the testing and debugging phases.

The mistake MS made was not in failing to develop this O/S fast enough, the mistake was letting the competition get several years head start before even beginning to develop a serious smartphone O/S option. In the little time they have had MS's WP7 development team has done a TON of great work. Would I like them to be even further along? Yes. But I also very much prefer that we have the smoothly functional and stable O/S that we have now rather than a buggy, clunky mess of an O/S that's likely to result when you rush too much and just bring in tons of extra coders to try and knock things out quickly. Better to take the extra time to do it right the first time even if it means not getting all of the features we want as soon as we'd like them.

 

[smartpatrol]

I'm curious about this too because its so blatantly apparent that they are shoving Android down consumer's throats. Every damn contact I get from Sprint is Android this or that. It appears more momentum related than anything else but after awhile it does feel conspiratorial.

I don't know if I'd say it's a conspiracy, it's just economics.

Think about it this way: why would any OEM want to push WP7 over Android? WP7 is supposedly $15/device to license, whereas Android is free (actually I think there is a $5 fee to use the Android name and include Google's maps/nav and app store, but you get the picture). OEMs are already struggling to turn a profit from Android. Only Samsung and HTC have managed to turn a profit from their smartphone divisions. . . Motorola, LG, and Sony are all in the red. An extra $10/device is a hard pill to swallow. Meanwhile, since Android has all the momentum, the carriers are all pushing it as hard as they can.

The only way we'll see a big surge in WP7 devices is if consumers are asking for it. And how can they ask for it if they don't know about it? That's why Nokia is so important. Finally there's a top-tier smartphone OEM putting WP7 on all their phones, including their flagship "halo" devices. It will be their business to sell WP7 phones, not just some afterthought.

Also, now it makes sense why MS and Apple are suing the pants off all the Android OEMs. Google's strategy was to build an OS with IP ripped off from Apple, MS, and Sun, and then give it away for free so nobody else could compete with them. You can't blame MS for trying to level the playing field and wanting to get paid for the use of their patents.

 

[Reflexx]

No, too slowly is valid because they knew what everyone else had. iOS and Android have been around for 5 years or so now. MS dragged their heels with WM6.5 and launched WP7 well after iOS and Android with a LOT missing. It really only became decent and able to hold its own with NoDo.

If they were a small startup, fair enough. But they're one of the biggest, richest companies in the world. If WP7 is to succeed they need to be on par or better right now, not in 6 months time. Mango addresses that to a large extent, but seriously - with pockets as deep as MS have, how did they let it take so long? Code may not pop out of thin air - but if you need more code, hire more coders.

Software doesn't necessarily work like that.

Often times, having too many coders on a project will hinder it. It depends on how many different areas are being worked on. And the likelihood of people making changes and enhancements in an area that could affect what someone else is working on.

With a project like this, it is likely that underlying infrastructure for new features has to be fleshed out and tested before letting other people build on top of it. Having a bunch of extra coders waiting around does nothing.

The speed that the OS has been built up is quite impressive. Saying they should have started earlier has nothing to do with how fast they have been working. Only when the start date was.

I happen to believe that WP is already on par, and in some ways, better than the competition already. Does it support the sheer number of features as its main competitors right now? No. But if that is the metric that you use to judge "better", then WP may not be the choice for you at this time.

I happen to love how what WP does so is implemented. I love the UI. I love the whole people/task-centric approach it takes, as opposed to being a app launcher.

This OS isn't being designed to clone what's already out there. It's a different way of doing things. And they're not going to be able to have every feature or ability available out of the gate. But those features have been coming fast.

 

[Reflexx]

Sadly the only ones who seem to think they've actually have created something awesome are us, people who have got a WP7 device. Doesnt seem to be encouraging the kind of enthusiasm from oem's and carriers they are displaying for android.

Let me ask, with Mango adding so many features is there any patricular reason OEM's should not be stepping up their game, in device design and promotion of their upcoming WP7 devices? Why is it that they seem so reluctant to even mention they make WP7 handsets, like it seems Samsung is? They make a sale either way so what's really going on?

They are making money hand over fist with Android. Their only reason to experiment with WP in its infancy is to just become familiar with it in case it becomes popular.

OEMs have no interest in promoting something that isn't already proven. They will focus on where the revenue stream is.

Nobody cared about Android in the beginning. These things take a little time.

 

[Dusteater]

I wasn't really referring to the OS so much as the OEM hardware development. I would be perfectly satisfied with with NoDo, it is still hundreds of times better than my BlackBerry Tour running BBOS 5.

Right now, it is all about devices. I am not sure why Nokia made their WP7 annoucement a year before they would have any product to show. It seems to me like a bad decision to give cunsomers so long a wait while you have nothing new to offer. I imagine they have lost a lot of customers during this time.

But the biggest problem with getting devices, isn't Microsoft or even the OEM's. It's US carriers. Look at the HTC Radar and Titan. We know where they are headed in Europe, and yet no word on when they will ever be sold in the US. Microsoft really needs to work more with US carriers to convince them they need WP7 devices. Also, as others have said, they need to hear it from customers too.