Slashdot: How Windows Phone 8 Can Succeed

[a5cent]

I believe Microsoft "thinking like it did about the desktop" is the reason it was so late to ditch WinMo and finally switch to Windows Phone.

Actually, it was worse than that. Microsoft wasn't thinking about WinMo at all! Microsoft was totally surprised by the iPhone. After Microsoft realized their mistake the mobile division's leader got fired and they transferred a couple hundred people, many of them star-engineers, to get the Windows Phone 7 effort under way as fast as possible. Even for Microsoft, a new OS is a big undertaking. You can't do it in a couple of months, which is why consumers didn't see it until 2010. Microsoft was simply caught flat footed.

I'm guessing that open source code is easier to update which is why Linux had so many revisions.

Well, the Linux distros use a different Linux kernel in most cases.
By your logic, Windows is even more ancient than OS X, since the NT kernel has been around since Win2000, which is older than the first OS X.

The windows kernel gets updated too! The only difference is Microsoft doesn't stick a publicly disclosed version number on it. For Windows Vista Microsoft undertook a huge effort to componentize the underpinnings of Windows, including the kernel and MinWin. Only thanks to that effort was Microsoft able to give us Windows on ARM, which is also what we are getting on WP8. The reasons Vista failed are the exact same reasons Windows 7 succeeded and it is a large part of what is making Windows RT possible... Windows has the "shiniest" kernel of them all.

 

[smoledman]

I think MS need to completely re-think how they do things at a core level. And I feel like a lot of what they need to change is marketing and presenting to the consumer.

Sorry but this is just so ignorant I have to call it out. You obviously haven't been paying attention the last 2 years if you think Microsoft hasn't rethought everything. Look how many stores they've opened just this year, look at the "Kinect Effect" commercial, the "productivity future vision" video, the Surface, the new touch peripherals. Stop spewing that garbage. Stop foisting your laziness on the rest of us.

 

[fatclue_98]

Sorry but this is just so ignorant I have to call it out. You obviously haven't been paying attention the last 2 years if you think Microsoft hasn't rethought everything. Look how many stores they've opened just this year, look at the "Kinect Effect" commercial, the "productivity future vision" video, the Surface, the new touch peripherals. Stop spewing that garbage. Stop foisting your laziness on the rest of us.

That is totally uncalled for. If you want to flame somebody go to XDA or anywhere but here. Do you even know what part of the world this person lives in? Maybe this person works the graveyard shift and isn't as "caught up" as you appear to be. Practice what you preach!!

 

[Daniel Ratcliffe]

Sorry but this is just so ignorant I have to call it out. You obviously haven't been paying attention the last 2 years if you think Microsoft hasn't rethought everything. Look how many stores they've opened just this year, look at the "Kinect Effect" commercial, the "productivity future vision" video, the Surface, the new touch peripherals. Stop spewing that garbage. Stop foisting your laziness on the rest of us.

Please, let's not flame others. The guy above me stated it perfectly though. You're lucky I haven't been able to find the ignore button yet...

Anyways, back on topic, I think that Microsoft needs to heavily advertise the system. Pushing everything to the limits. In 2013, I think to compete in the specs war with Android we need 64-core smartphones. That will certainly blow Android out of the water. 100THz per core, with 64 of them. 6'400THz of processing power... flipping heck! It'll be flagship, but how long would the battery last haha. Actually, on second thought, that's the worst idea ever and I should be shot for it...

 

[mafu6]

Please, let's not flame others. The guy above me stated it perfectly though. You're lucky I haven't been able to find the ignore button yet...

Anyways, back on topic, I think that Microsoft needs to heavily advertise the system. Pushing everything to the limits. In 2013, I think to compete in the specs war with Android we need 64-core smartphones. That will certainly blow Android out of the water. 100THz per core, with 64 of them. 6'400THz of processing power... flipping heck! It'll be flagship, but how long would the battery last haha. Actually, on second thought, that's the worst idea ever and I should be shot for it...

64 cores... I would be carrying a back pack as a charger for it to even work .... hahaha

I second thats a stupid idea!

Microsoft will have by far the superior ecosystem when WP8 Win8 winRT and Xbox all work with one another, though all OS have different problems and I dont expect WP8 not to have some fair criticsm. I do however think it will flourish as people get used to Win8 on desktops/laptops.

 

[fatclue_98]

Please, let's not flame others. The guy above me stated it perfectly though. You're lucky I haven't been able to find the ignore button yet...

Anyways, back on topic, I think that Microsoft needs to heavily advertise the system. Pushing everything to the limits. In 2013, I think to compete in the specs war with Android we need 64-core smartphones. That will certainly blow Android out of the water. 100THz per core, with 64 of them. 6'400THz of processing power... flipping heck! It'll be flagship, but how long would the battery last haha. Actually, on second thought, that's the worst idea ever and I should be shot for it...

I'll have what you're having. Chivas is getting too expensive.

 

[Laura Knotek]

Actually, it was worse than that. Microsoft wasn't thinking about WinMo at all! Microsoft was totally surprised by the iPhone. After Microsoft realized their mistake the mobile division's leader got fired and they transferred a couple hundred people, many of them star-engineers, to get the Windows Phone 7 effort under way as fast as possible. Even for Microsoft, a new OS is a big undertaking. You can't do it in a couple of months, which is why consumers didn't see it until 2010. Microsoft was simply caught flat footed.

Thanks for the explanation. Truth be told, I never followed WinMo at all--never owned a WinMo device and never even gave one any consideration. I was a Symbian/BlackBerry user at the height of WinMo's popularity.

The windows kernel gets updated too! The only difference is Microsoft doesn't stick a publicly disclosed version number on it. For Windows Vista Microsoft undertook a huge effort to componentize the underpinnings of Windows, including the kernel and MinWin. Only thanks to that effort was Microsoft able to give us Windows on ARM, which is also what we are getting on WP8. The reasons Vista failed are the exact same reasons Windows 7 succeeded and it is a large part of what is making Windows RT possible... Windows has the "shiniest" kernel of them all.

The main issue with Vista was the debacle with the outdated hardware that the OEMs released and stuck labels on stating "Vista Capable", which led to a lawsuit.

It is obvious that Microsoft learned lessons from that, since it is making its own hardware. The OEMs will have to use decent hardware for Win8 as a result.

 

[freestaterocker]

Mindshare is key. Microsoft and Nokia are way too busy trying to be clever with their ads. Remember Verizon's "Droid Does" campaign? Show what the phone does that the competition can't. It's simple. And given Android's stranglehold on US and global market share, it was HUGELY successful. Nokia's 920 does a few things even other WPs can't do, not to mention Android and IOS. Screen you can use with gloves or long fingernails, advanced image stabilization, blur-free 60 fps visuals, etc. Create ads that highlight these strengths, and highlight that the competition lacks them, and you've got something. The Beta-Test campaign had the right idea, but they should've saved it for WP8. Just bad timing.

 

[mmacleodbrown]

Microsoft is taking all of these things very seriously. Unfortunately, even if Microsoft gets all of those three things right, I don't think it will be enough.

Somehow, on an emotional level, WP isn't connecting. Picking up a WP device in a store just doesn't make the same impression as an Android device with an animated background image. Many peoples first reaction to WP is simply: "eww.. ugly". WP needs to grow on you, after which you learn to love it. But first impressions sell the device. Just the fact that Microsoft and Nokia employees can't stop mentioning how beautiful and personal the start screen is, tells me that aspect of WP is everything but self evident. As stupid and superficial as it sounds, I actually think this is WP's main sales-issue.

From a user who is switching to WP for the first time, I disagree with this.
Everyone knows WP is a well thought out OS and has been well received by tech blogs etc.

The issues (for me) were

WP7.xxx was seen as a half baked crippled OS, no screenshot functionality, dubious multitasking abilities, cut and paste, etc
Some of these things were fixed in updates, but for me there was no reason to switch from a capable ecosystem

Lack of apps - still an issue, but this WILL change with the win8 shared kernel - apps are no longer an issue for me

Finally and probably most importantly, there was just no compelling reason to switch to WP from android or IOS - on WP7.xx functionality, why would anyone switch - where is the unique selling point???

With WP8 so so much changes....
A whole host of online services have been updated
The cloud is central to the phone and Microsoft strategy, and it shows in how key it is in MS software now - it is central to everything.
Integration between desktop and phone
The best maps out there
Some really tight integration between apps - Im thinking the nokia apps..
some desirable hardware

Im no casual user, I had a SG3 and I work in IT and have done for years, and for me WP8/W8cloud integration is the key selling point for me. I can see how much easier that will make things for me and the systems I use and want.

Make no mistake WP8 is a game changer, and Im excited about it, poor old half baked WP is finally growing up and is ready for the big time. It not only matches the functionality of IOS and android, but offers possibilities well beyond anything either of them currently offer

The biggest risk as I see it is the metro UI on Win8 - if people use it and take the time to learn it properly, they will love it as it is so much better than the old start button, BUT if people just want to open a box and it all work instantly, then they will get frustrated, slag it off and Im worried that WP8 will get caught up in the backlash.
Microsoft really need to spend a lot of money and resources to ease people through the transition and then it will be OK..

I cant wait for it all to be out so I can show people the possibilities rather than just talk about it

 

[Guzzler3]

It's MS not M$ otherwise good thread.

Off topic, I know. But it's been a running joke ever since I started as a win admin (20 years now) of using the "offending" initials (even with Softies). I have to use the immortal phrase "lighten up Francis"

 

[Laura Knotek]

Off topic, I know. But it's been a running joke ever since I started as a win admin (20 years now) of using the "offending" initials (even with Softies). I have to use the immortal phrase "lighten up Francis"

I just thought you might have been a Linux user or Linux Admin.

 

[smoledman]

Mindshare is key. Microsoft and Nokia are way too busy trying to be clever with their ads. Remember Verizon's "Droid Does" campaign? Show what the phone does that the competition can't. It's simple. And given Android's stranglehold on US and global market share, it was HUGELY successful. Nokia's 920 does a few things even other WPs can't do, not to mention Android and IOS. Screen you can use with gloves or long fingernails, advanced image stabilization, blur-free 60 fps visuals, etc. Create ads that highlight these strengths, and highlight that the competition lacks them, and you've got something. The Beta-Test campaign had the right idea, but they should've saved it for WP8. Just bad timing.

No doubt the new ads will feature young couples frolicking about and show you nothing about the phone. *THUD*

 

[a5cent]

From a user who is switching to WP for the first time, I disagree with this. Everyone knows WP is a well thought out OS and has been well received by tech blogs etc.

<snipped>

Im no casual user, I had a SG3 and I work in IT and have done for years, and for me WP8/W8cloud integration is the key selling point for me. I can see how much easier that will make things for me and the systems I use and want.

I think you misunderstand something. The topic of this thread is "How WP8 can succeed" and not "How can WP8 succeed with you"

You have very good reasons for being drawn to WP8, but almost none of that is relevant in terms of appealing to the masses, which is what WP must do to be successful.

How many consumers have requirements so advanced, that WP7.5 (not 7.0) wouldn't suffice? How many consumers walk into a telecom shop with precise technical requirements, or even any clear concept of what they expect from a smartphone beyond the absolute basics? Surely not many. Most don't feel up to the task of making technical judgments. That is something most prefer to leave up to the technical-friend (like yourself), sales staff, or society (via popularity). However, what people can judge is aesthetics.

As everyone knows, the less you understand about cars, the more you care about their color. The same applies to any other consumer product. That is why I believe the aesthetics-related problems I described in my previous post are WP's main sales-issue. At least in my experience, WP often fails to make a good first impression, if the person is unwilling to spend a good half hour with the device. Most consumers are neither that curios nor that patient.

 

[mmacleodbrown]

I think you misunderstand something. The topic of this thread is "How WP8 can succeed" and not "How can WP8 succeed with you"

You make a very good point there, and maybe miss one at the same time?
WP8 has already succeeded in a way as it has attracted a long time Android user into switching systems..
The reason why doesn't matter in a way...

The only way you will get round the other perfectly valid points you raised is with an extensive advertising campaign similar to the Apple one "there is an app for that" type of thing. One that shows new users how customisable the GUI is, or the simplicity of the people hub or detailing the wow factor of their phone OS

 

[pjs37]

Sorry but this is just so ignorant I have to call it out. You obviously haven't been paying attention the last 2 years if you think Microsoft hasn't rethought everything. Look how many stores they've opened just this year, look at the "Kinect Effect" commercial, the "productivity future vision" video, the Surface, the new touch peripherals. Stop spewing that garbage. Stop foisting your laziness on the rest of us.

I have paid attention for the past two years. Certain divisions of Microsoft get it and the XBox division is one of the major ones that is strictly for the consumer and is good at marketing to the consumer. They came from having absolutely no presence in the market place to having a massive mindshare presence in the console market.

However when it comes to the Windows division I do not feel at all that they get it. They are starting to but I still don't think they get the whole picture. Windows is a product of Enterprise and Consumer needs. Enterprise has entirely different needs from the Consumer that is obvious and the pacing is completely different. But the world is changing and MS obviously sees that which is why we have Windows 8/Windows 8 Phone. But they have not done a very good job getting the consumer excited about either IMO. I am excited because I like my Windows 7 Phone and I like where it is going and the changes the future holds but that is the exception not the rule.

I can see where MS is going with everything and how it will be Windows Everywhere but I do not feel like they have made very clear to the consumer how it will effect them and why they should put their horse with MS. We are talking about ecosystems now and no longer about platforms. And no the productivity future vision video doesn't help at all with that. The Kinect Effect video is good though again they need to take that and merge that somehow with the Windows Division stuff.

 

[pjs37]

64 cores... I would be carrying a back pack as a charger for it to even work .... hahaha

I second thats a stupid idea!

Microsoft will have by far the superior ecosystem when WP8 Win8 winRT and Xbox all work with one another, though all OS have different problems and I dont expect WP8 not to have some fair criticsm. I do however think it will flourish as people get used to Win8 on desktops/laptops.

I agree. I think we are beginning to see the start of a new Windows/MS ecosystem here and I hope they can bring it all together. I wouldn't be shocked if MS beats Apple to the punch having a seamless experience between all their various platforms.

As a gamer I see something like this where I can be playing a game on my Xbox 360, go to work the next day while at work play some mini games on my Windows Phone which is effect my 360's game and then get home and I can play an even bigger game on my PC.

So for example it would be something like what Eve online is gunning for: The console will have a shooter where players fight for control of planets very Halo style like. On the PC they are part of massive fleets doing the space engagements around those planets for entire systems and the Xbox service can link it altogether perhaps. I can see it where there is something on my phone where I can keep an eye on things and use my phone either as an extension of a device in the game or while I may not home watch fleet movements send mail to my corp. members about things I notice etc. We are very close to that and that is just one example. Obviously that is a gaming situation.

For pictures I can see having like an eyeFi and my phone/or windows tablet where pictures I take get uploaded to my skydrive, I can go home on my PC and do some editing and the changes are automatically applied to my site with having to re-upload things and Windows can be the thing that bridges all those gaps and makes the experience seamless.

 

[a5cent]

You make a very good point there, and maybe miss one at the same time?
WP8 has already succeeded in a way as it has attracted a long time Android user into switching systems..
The reason why doesn't matter in a way...

I think we are just defining "success" differently. That you are part of this community and supporting the platform certainly is a success (I would be the last person to dispute that)! I also agree that the reasons for that success don't matter (neither do any other single persons reasons for liking WP).

However, my definition of "success", in the context of this thread, differs. IMHO "success" is only achieved after Microsoft's earnings from it's mobile division suffice to sustain competitive development efforts with Google and Apple. I have no idea how large of a market share that requires, but it certainly is much larger than what WP has today. As of right now, Microsoft is sinking millions of dollars into WP every week. That rate of spending might need to be raised further still. Obviously, at some point, those expenditures must balance out with earnings, or we can all kiss WP goodbye. That's why I wouldn't call WP a success until we reach that point.

I don't think there is any right or wrong here... it's just a matter of understanding what the "other guy" is talking about.

The only way you will get round the other perfectly valid points you raised is with an extensive advertising campaign similar to the Apple one "there is an app for that" type of thing. One that shows new users how customisable the GUI is, or the simplicity of the people hub or detailing the wow factor of their phone OS

You may be right, but I'm not sure. As a software guy, I would prefer fixing the products problem instead of devising a method of marketing around it. In my view the product just needs to be better at selling itself (I'd actually have a few ideas on that). I guess I'm just somewhat skeptical that advertisements can take WP as far as it needs to go, no matter how well they are done. Apparently, all companies agree that northern/western/central Europe (excl. the U.K.) is one of the most non-responsive advertising markets in existence, so being from central Europe myself might explain some of that skepticism.

 

[Daniel Ratcliffe]

64 cores... I would be carrying a back pack as a charger for it to even work .... hahaha

I second thats a stupid idea!

Microsoft will have by far the superior ecosystem when WP8 Win8 winRT and Xbox all work with one another, though all OS have different problems and I dont expect WP8 not to have some fair criticsm. I do however think it will flourish as people get used to Win8 on desktops/laptops.

Think big, unrealistically big... Oops! Bet I've come across as a troll too...

I'll have what you're having. Chivas is getting too expensive.

It's called having the strangest ex-girlfriend ever she did weird things to my mind...

 

[fatclue_98]

Think big, unrealistically big... Oops! Bet I've come across as a troll too...



It's called having the strangest ex-girlfriend ever she did weird things to my mind...

You're young. Wait until you have to reply with an "ex-wife" line. Especially a red-head like I endured.

 

[Daniel Ratcliffe]

You're young. Wait until you have to reply with an "ex-wife" line. Especially a red-head like I endured.

Good thing I wasn't eating or drinking anything at the time of reading that, I'd have covered my keyboard in the stuff out of laughter. Yea, I've heard red-heads are wild. Trust me to try and get with one though, especially a seriously stubborn one... but I digress.