Surface Pro 4, a very expensive frustation

[Luinwethion]

I ask myself, do people at Microsoft use their own products? Or they just use the Surfaces for the conferences and after that they go back running back to their MBP?

It really seams like the second one, yeah I understand that from time to time something might bug down and you might even need to restart the system. But having to restart such a device 3 times in a day due bugs that are around since the beginning of the ages is unacceptable.

Even after clean installing Windows 10 AU the system can turn out to be unusable.

Before someone puts the blame in other software, I've almost nothing installed on my surface, and nothing else starts up with Windows other than Defender and OneDrive, I like to keep things pretty clean.

Almost all problems are linked to Windows freaking out after resuming it from sleep / hibernation.

I often leave Edge and Mail open always, because I like to keep my tabs and I use Mail a lot.
Edge doesn't like waking up from hibernation, it will freeze, it will get slow and sometimes it won't even close, forcing me to close the process.

Switch from landscape to vertical while Windows Hello is taking ages to turn the camera on? More often than not the graphics will freak out and 1/3 of the screen will be kept in landscape while the rest will turn. Fix? Restart. Very strange thing, never saw something like this, not even in the cheapest Chinese Android tablet I've seen things like this.

Groove music, that one is funny, how to kill the Surface battery in 1 hour? Well, have some Music at the local OneDrive Music folder, and play it with Groove, for decoding a 320Kbps MP3 Groove would use more than 50% of the power of a dualcore I7 processor, very impressive.
Now sure after months of agony with Groove, they solved the problem by avoiding the CPU to speed up and get hot, but this doesn't mean that Groove is fixed, now when I open Groove, I can't make some steaks on the back of my surface anymore, but I can't work on it either because the whole systems slows down, it seams like I'm exporting something in Premiere, but no, and people complained about iTunes needing resources.

Now as it is, the SP4 is pretty unusable as a mobile computer, that goes to sleep and resumes many times a day while keeping apps open. I understand the decision to hibernate the machine after 2h of inactivity, makes sense for the battery and I'm able to accept the longer wait from time to time, but when resuming from sleep, even with its i7, 8GB of ram and super fast SSD, the SP4 is everything but instant on resuming. Even if I would not use Windows Hello that more often than not bugs down, it will take the device annoying seconds before it responds to my command of dismissing the lock screen.

Anyone with problems and frustrations like mine? You found a solution for any of those problems?

I'm really thinking of giving up the bigger screen and the flexibility of Windows for a Pixel C, that will at least, always work when needed.

 

[pwscott]

I don't even understand the question in the poll...."...DOES YOUR SURFACE BUGS DOWN MORE THAN YOU EXPECTED?..."

That doesn't even make sense as a question.

 

[GatsbyGlen]

I've had my SP4 now since October of last year. Sure, there were some issues in the beginning, but it's much better now than it used to be

 

[kristalsoldier]

I bought my SP4 earlier this month and as of now (its on the latest Release Preview version) it is working fine (including battery life).

But this is something that I wonder about: How come the experiences on the same class of machines (SP4, for example) are so different for different people who are all downloading and installing the same update? Why does this happen?

Edit: What the OP mentions about Edge, I have that happen sometimes - usually when the SP4 is connected to the Surface dock - but only sometimes, not always.

 

[X0LARIUM]

I can understand your anger. Trust me, I am in the same boat. But I MIGHT have a solution to your problems. I have a SP4 i5, 128 gigs, almost nothing on the HDD just like you. What used to happen? Lags and stutters all throughout. Sound wasn't working as well, keyboard was not being detected, no Windows Hello. My 6 year old iPad MINI felt more stable.

Cut to the chase, here is your issue: "Even after clean installing Windows 10 AU the system can turn out to be unusable. "

Two words say it all: Anniversary Update. Screwed up as hell.

So what do we do?

1.

First thing's first, speak to MS Support and ask them for a link to download Windows 10 for your system.

I got this link from MS: https://forums.windowscentral.com/e...ry%2Fdownloadablerecoveryimage&token=hdscvkFj

2.

Now get a USB and flash it on a USB and follow the instructions here:

https://forums.windowscentral.com/e...Fusbrecovery%3Fos%3Dwindows-10&token=bgsuHWI_


3. VERY CRUCIAL

Now, once you are done reinstalling, DON'T update to Anniversary Update. Observe your machine for a week or more, without AU. When I used it without upgrading, it was buttery smooth. No issues at all. Once the update hit, the same issues came back. But I solved it.

4.

When the SAME issue of sound and stutter returned, I was super angry. But then one member on the forum,

13paul13
suggested this:



​

Hope this helps.

 

[fury2g]

Thanks for this!

 

[Luinwethion]

Thanks for the idea.

I actually did both installations with the actual surface recovery image.

But you actually gave me an idea, in the past with Windows 8 I've had some serious problems with the fast boot option, a problem where I blamed the drivers and of BIOS of my mother board by the time.

But, almost all problems on the Surface happens after a resume from sleep or hibernation o after powering it up. Knowing that fast boot is a fancy hibernation, I will try disabling fast boot and hibernation on the surface. so it will either sleep or be totally powered off.


Just for a heads up of what kind of things I encounter, I was using my surface in tablet mode, pushed the power button (it went to sleep), and I attached the type cover.
Half an hour later, I came back, removed the type cover, powered the surface back on, and the screen rotation refuses to work.

https://twitter.com/_Rena_Chan_/status/770332516528037888

 

[vezycash]

I ask myself, do people at Microsoft use their own products? Or they just use the Surfaces for the conferences and after that they go back running back to their MBP?

Applies to windows phone as well

Almost all problems are linked to Windows freaking out after resuming it from sleep / hibernation.

If Microsoft doesn't fix this, iPads will continue to win.

Groove music, that one is funny, how to kill the Surface battery in 1 hour?

Try media monkey. Just checked: CPU usage 0.4%, RAM of 14MB compared with...
Hit me up if you decide to use it. It's got some cool configurations that aren't on by default like "close to tray."

Before someone puts the blame in other software, I've almost nothing installed on my surface, and nothing else starts up with Windows other than Defender and OneDrive, I like to keep things pretty clean.

I'm really thinking of giving up the bigger screen and the flexibility of Windows for a Pixel C, that will at least, always work when needed.

With your use case, an iPad should suffice.

 

[Chintan Gohel]

Thanks for the idea.

I actually did both installations with the actual surface recovery image.

But you actually gave me an idea, in the past with Windows 8 I've had some serious problems with the fast boot option, a problem where I blamed the drivers and of BIOS of my mother board by the time.

But, almost all problems on the Surface happens after a resume from sleep or hibernation o after powering it up. Knowing that fast boot is a fancy hibernation, I will try disabling fast boot and hibernation on the surface. so it will either sleep or be totally powered off.


Just for a heads up of what kind of things I encounter, I was using my surface in tablet mode, pushed the power button (it went to sleep), and I attached the type cover.
Half an hour later, I came back, removed the type cover, powered the surface back on, and the screen rotation refuses to work.

https://twitter.com/_Rena_Chan_/status/770332516528037888

hope the fast boot disable works for you as I was going to suggest that too
I wonder if you got the latest firmware updates?

 

[cracgor]

I would suggest changing your browser and abandoning groove.

I don't want to endorse a particular browser, but Edge is inferior to the competition. I hated to admit it. For the longest time I used Edge, but gave up when it wouldn't load some common webpages I visit well enough. In short, FireFox, Opera, Chrome, or TOR (if you want to be super anonymous). My experience has been much better with extension support, better page loading, etc. I feel like an ***** for using IE and Edge for so long.

There are a lot of other music options available these days. Groove is okay, but more expensive than many and carries some limitations on the number of devices you can have it installed to and has a limited music library. In particular, I was often missing some of the new hip hop and having issues with songs or albums being updated then not letting me play them anymore without deleting the old track and finding a new track. Google Play Music, Spotify, Pandora One, Amazon Prime Music, etc. Research the competition and you may find something better. I just wish I could uninstall Groove from my system (along with many of the other preinstalled Microsoft bloatware). If you are like me, you only used it because you kept getting upgrade from Zune. The service I use now is more similar to what I remember Zune being like...the only downside is there isn't a Windows Phone app and I can't download music to a PC. Still download it to my phone and have internet mostly when using my computer so it works out.

Hope it gets better. I still haven't done the AU. Trying to avoid Windows Ink.

 

[Djalmar]

Surface pro 4 o surface book ?
I would like to know someone opinion

 

[TechZeke]

I've been highly satisfied with my Surface Pro 4.

I also own a 15" Retina MacBook Pro, but my SP4 is pretty much my main mobile computer now. It's practically collecting dust.

 

[burgesszachary1]

Everything on my SP4 is working okay but when headphones are plugged in there is some noise sometimes. Like popping are pulsing not crazy loud, but annoying. also AU AU does not seem to be as stable as the factory image version of windows that came with the device

 

[Andrea988]

I've had it freeze a few times from hibernation but nothing like 3 times a day. 2-3 times a week maybe but I do turn it off (into hibernate) an awful lot; many times a day as I'm using it virtually from when I get up to when I go to bed as we run an online business. The battery easily lasts me most of the day.

I use Groove mostly on the phone (Lumia 950) but after the month's trial I recently signed up permanently as I have been so impressed with it. No-brainer for the price of a CD a month. I've downloaded dozens of albums which has always been quick and easy and added them to OneDrive so I can play from my phone or from the SP4 and apart from one which wouldn't play I have had no problems at all. I haven't found much that's not available though I tend to go for older stuff rather than the latest albums. My only complaint would be that you have to add them to the OneDrive folder, it would be nice if they synced automatically. Maybe there is a setting to let them do that, I haven't looked.

One or two points. I'm not sure why you would want the screen to rotate while you're signing in via Hello. It recognises me 99% of the time but I've never tried to do anything with it until I'm in. Why put extra pressure on the system unnecessarily?

If Edge is a problem upon the computer waking - yes, I occasionally had the same issue - just don't leave it open. It opens in seconds anyway and you can have it open from where you left off (Settings > Open Microsoft Edge with previous pages). I do this most of the time now.

The only problem I have had until recently was with the new Pin (tab) option. After one event of it not restarting from hibernate, it lost all the pinned tabs. Since then I have added each pinned tab to a new folder in Favourites, so if it happens again I at least know what they all were. But since I found the option to show just the icons in the Favourites Bar I use that now instead of the tabs for the most part. Find that option in Settings > Favourites > View Favourites settings.

I said "until recently....". Lately I have had websites hanging a lot since the AU. We played around with a few settings and uninstalled the last update KB3176934, which helped, but I then ran a disk check using AVG Disk Doctor which "checks the file system of the drive for errors and locates bad sectors and recovers readable information". I appreciate not everybody has the AVG program but since I ran that it's been perfectly fine again.

So overall, yes a couple of niggles but nowhere near enough to spoil my enjoyment of it, and I think it's superb but I hope there is some information here useful to somebody. I'm not sure if certain models have more issues than others but mine is the core i5/8GB/256GB model.

If you can find one (they're now discontiunued) you can also get a Lenovo Yoga 2 8" on Windows, I have one and while it's not the most powerful for intensive apps it has been very reliable and fantastic quality. I paid less than ?200 for it new. They also do an Android version and a 10" version.

 

[Andrea988]

I'm really thinking of giving up the bigger screen and the flexibility of Windows for a Pixel C, that will at least, always work when needed.

You seriously think a tablet running on Android's buggy operating system is the answer? And at over ?500 including the tiny optional keyboard? I actually sold a Sony Tablet Z2 on ebay at a considerable loss, absolutely loved the tablet which seemed to be top quality but so many bugs in the OS made it unusable a lot of the time. I was even half expecting the buyer to send it back.

I'm no Apple fan but for that sort of money you would be far better going for an iPad Air 2. I've only used one briefly but it was smooth enough for the short time I used It and you can pick them up new for ?300 on ebay, maybe even less soon if Apple come up with a new model in November.

 

[BenIsCool]

Oh my...Never expected that. Thanks for pointing out guys, I might want to reconsider buying it.

 

[Luinwethion]

I would suggest changing your browser and abandoning groove.

I don't want to endorse a particular browser, but Edge is inferior to the competition. I hated to admit it. For the longest time I used Edge, but gave up when it wouldn't load some common webpages I visit well enough. In short, FireFox, Opera, Chrome, or TOR (if you want to be super anonymous). My experience has been much better with extension support, better page loading, etc. I feel like an ***** for using IE and Edge for so long.

There are a lot of other music options available these days. Groove is okay, but more expensive than many and carries some limitations on the number of devices you can have it installed to and has a limited music library. In particular, I was often missing some of the new hip hop and having issues with songs or albums being updated then not letting me play them anymore without deleting the old track and finding a new track. Google Play Music, Spotify, Pandora One, Amazon Prime Music, etc. Research the competition and you may find something better. I just wish I could uninstall Groove from my system (along with many of the other preinstalled Microsoft bloatware). If you are like me, you only used it because you kept getting upgrade from Zune. The service I use now is more similar to what I remember Zune being like...the only downside is there isn't a Windows Phone app and I can't download music to a PC. Still download it to my phone and have internet mostly when using my computer so it works out.

Hope it gets better. I still haven't done the AU. Trying to avoid Windows Ink.

I actually use groove to play local music, and other win32 app is no go because it won't play when the display is off.
For streaming I have Deezer that's pretty decent and they have a win10 app.

The thing is, when it works, no browser is as good with battery than edge, Chrome lives on battery and ram.

One or two points. I'm not sure why you would want the screen to rotate while you're signing in via Hello. It recognises me 99% of the time but I've never tried to do anything with it until I'm in. Why put extra pressure on the system unnecessarily?

If Edge is a problem upon the computer waking - yes, I occasionally had the same issue - just don't leave it open. It opens in seconds anyway and you can have it open from where you left off (Settings > Open Microsoft Edge with previous pages). I do this most of the time now.

Is not like I'm trying to move the display orientation for the camera to work better, actually windows hello works well.

The thing is, that sometimes I just wanna to read or browse in tablet mode and I just pickup the surface from my desk, push the power button, disconnect the keyboard and turn it from landscape to portrait. This is not putting pressure on the system, this is as poorly implementation and poor testing of the software features.

As for edge, I could say the same, why should I avoid doing something that should work? I use the surface mostly to consume media, and sometimes because I use it on places without no internet reopening edge means that I would need to activate the hotspot on my phone to reload pages.

And some video streaming websites doesn't recall the video position if I reload it.

You seriously think a tablet running on Android's buggy operating system is the answer? And at over ?500 including the tiny optional keyboard? I actually sold a Sony Tablet Z2 on ebay at a considerable loss, absolutely loved the tablet which seemed to be top quality but so many bugs in the OS made it unusable a lot of the time. I was even half expecting the buyer to send it back.

I'm no Apple fan but for that sort of money you would be far better going for an iPad Air 2. I've only used one briefly but it was smooth enough for the short time I used It and you can pick them up new for ?300 on ebay, maybe even less soon if Apple come up with a new model in November.

Was the OS on the Z2 lollipop? If yes I feel your pain, I used a nexus 9 with lollipop for a while and it was a disaster, opening a few tabs on chrome would make the tablet unusable.

Anyways, the why I consider Android is just because iOS is not an alternative for me.

Of course the pixel C is much less capable than a surface, mostly in real multitasking, where on Windows you can open a tab on edge with YouTube, and open more other tabs and minimize the browser and the video would still play back. Of course without counting on apps running in free windows instead of only 1 or 2 side by side.

Anyways, because I want to wait the whole android + chrome OS thing, and that selling my surface would result and buying a tablet + updating my desktop workstation. I decided to give a try with the MS service in the hopes that some of the mostly annoying problems are due hardware issues. The new one should be arriving tomorrow.

 

[Luinwethion]

So new surface is here.... Kickstand doesn't close flat with the surface body and when opening it, it gets stuck and the force needed to open it is more than normal.

 

[CraigCole]

When the SP4 first came out mine was absolutely deplorable, easily the most unreliable electronic device I've ever owned (after my Lumia 950, which is another steaming turd). Now, as other commenters have mentioned, things have gotten a lot better in the subsequent year but it's still not good enough. Problems persist.

Some say Intel's Skylake chips are to blame for our woes, but even if that's true it's just a strawman argument as Microsoft agreed to buy these junky chips; the buck stops in Redmond, or at least it should. A device priced like this should be nearly flawless, something Apple seems to excel at. My buddy's iPad air sat unused and asleep in his laptop bag for three or four days. Opening the cover revealed it still had 100 percent battery life; I shudder to think how much a SP4 would have dropped, even if it were turned off.

I remember back when using Windows 7, the taskbar thumbnails would get "stuck" at times. When you moused over an icon pinned to the taskbar it would highlight and then remain that way even after moving the cursor away (hardly a deal-breaker but still annoying as heck). In typical Microsoft fashion this issue remains in Windows 10; I have to kill Explorer.exe about once a day to fix this stupid problem that hasn't been addressed in nearly a decade. 10 is called "The Best Windows Ever," yet in reality it's just SSDD (same crap, different DECADE).

I often ask the same question as the original poster, "Do Microsoft employees even use their own devices"? The answer appears to be NO!

 

[brankestein]

Is buying it really worth the expense? Since I'll be relying on it pretty heavy for use in college, so is it stable enough and all for it or will it be better to wait a while or buy a Windows 2in1 from another brand?

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