The curious case of the Surface 2

spaulagain

New member
Apr 27, 2012
1,356
0
0
Visit site
I love the Surface 2, it seems to have hit all the critical weak spots of the first one (power, screen resolution, etc.). I plan on replacing my RT with the 2.

I also think if MS prices the Surface Mini right, then RT can have a good rise.

OEMs suck. They always have. Only now are they starting to get the hint. Their hardware design and quality has to improve drastically.

Microsoft and Vizio are the only ones who have pulled off hardware on par or better than Apple.
 

mrpuny

New member
Jan 1, 2013
172
0
0
Visit site
It is only DOA because of perception. Perception is everything.

I cannot believe what I've seen browsing through various news sites' coverage of the Surface event. They are completely biased against it. I mean, there are plenty of things they could point out that are completely fair. It is an evolutionary update, and yes, the Surface RT didn't do so well (and had some noticeable shortcomings). But the problems of the previous generation are no reason to write off Surface 2. Every change made addresses a weakness of the original model. This product has not just been upgraded, it's matured.

The second thing I see is that people don't get the form factor, or Windows RT. They complain it's not designed like other tablets but also complain that it doesn't run Windows apps as if those things make the device bad. There is a fundamental lack of understanding of what Surface is, what it does and why.

Has there been even one major media outlet that has had a positive response to the Surface announcement? That's got to be the oddest part; it feels to me almost like Apple back in the '90s where everyone was down on them. Granted, Microsoft is still making a ton of money, but that's in large part to their enterprise business. Consumer initiatives aren't doing so well right now. Is Microsoft working to build relationships with any of the media? They need some help trying to get their message out. For all the reputation Steve Jobs had for being adversarial with the press, he knew how to play them. When he died, people like David Pogue and Walt Mossberg talked about how when Steve came back to Apple in the dark days, he'd frequently call them to talk about the company and debate articles they had written. No doubt that sort of thing helped shape more positive reporting later on. Microsoft in contrast doesn't seem to have much in the way of high-level relationships with anyone in the media, even among the PC and Windows-centric personalities like Thurrot and Mary Jo.
 

Christian Kallevig

New member
Jul 20, 2013
291
0
0
Visit site
I'd say that Asus and Lenovo both have great hardware designs, and more recently HP as well. Although I don't know if anyone actually surpasses Apple. They make some beautiful machines that are plenty functional. Although I'd say Surface 2 is one amazing machine too
 

SwimSwim

New member
Feb 1, 2013
1,173
0
0
Visit site
This post changed my viewpoint. As soon as you mentioned Windows Phone, my perspective changed. Very valid points.

I think I'm still going to stick with the Pro, simply because I'm going to use it to act as a full replacement to my laptop and as a tablet. And while I don't use legacy apps incredibly often, I think it's enough that I'd miss them. Besides, another reason I want the Pro over the RT model is because of that awesome pen Microsoft made. Me, want...

Sigh, curse my snobby tastes in technology! I'd like to get an RT model, simply due to the lower cost. Oh well, I've talked to some people on other tech sites about it, and I'm fairly convinced to go the Pro route. All or nothing, I suppose. :p

Anyways, digression over, sorry for wandering off topic there. Again, you've convinced me pushing RT. Windows Phone 7 didn't see much success, but with the later iteration of Windows Phone 8, we're now the fastest growing mobile OS in the world, especially with the low end Lumia 520 kicking *** in many markets. Who knows, maybe Nokia's low end expertise will lead to a very low cost Surface tablet after the acquisition next year, the Kindle Fire of the Windows RT world.

All very exciting stuff, and I'll back Microsoft in their valiant campaign with Windows RT. Full speed ahead!
 

crash1989

New member
Oct 30, 2012
1,491
0
0
Visit site
I love the Surface 2, it seems to have hit all the critical weak spots of the first one (power, screen resolution, etc.). I plan on replacing my RT with the 2.

I also think if MS prices the Surface Mini right, then RT can have a good rise.

OEMs suck. They always have. Only now are they starting to get the hint. Their hardware design and quality has to improve drastically.

Microsoft and Vizio are the only ones who have pulled off hardware on par or better than Apple.

Acer showed their design mettle with the Acer Aspire S7

Lenovo with their Thinkpad Carbon. I feel that OEMs can design well and their second gen devices are much improved form gen 1
 

azcruz

Active member
Jul 29, 2013
3,417
0
36
Visit site
This? :)





Sent from my Windows Phone 8S by HTC using Tapatalk
 

Attachments

  • WP_20130925_004.jpg
    WP_20130925_004.jpg
    182.9 KB · Views: 118

crash1989

New member
Oct 30, 2012
1,491
0
0
Visit site
ya this Acer Aspire S7 review (2013) | The Verge

DSC_7423-1024_large_verge_super_wide.jpg
 

azcruz

Active member
Jul 29, 2013
3,417
0
36
Visit site
As far as build and feel is concerned, no contest with even just the Surface RT.

The Sony slider Duo 11 is also present last night. After tinkering with it, I won't buy it.
 

Christian Kallevig

New member
Jul 20, 2013
291
0
0
Visit site
The Surface RT is excellent in terms of build quality and aesthetics. The thing is rock solid, looks and feels like a premium device, and is smartly designed on the whole. Although underneath all that it is good but ultimately compromised piece of hardware.

Still, it shows the advantages of controlling your own OS and supply chain. OEMs have to compromise wherever they are able just to turn a profit. And it's only getting harder for them lately as laptops are going out of favor and they clamor to hold onto market share. It's been good for those of us still looking for laptops though as there are a number of low cost, high quality options out there at the moment.
 

AngryNil

New member
Mar 3, 2012
1,383
0
0
Visit site
I absolutely agree on hardware and software support. While it's certainly not unparalleled on internals, as an overall hardware package it's great. Microsoft always has to compete against unrealistic expectations of nailing absolutely everything, because they owned the old PC market. The build quality is legit, unlike the regular crap that gets pumped out at the lower price points which Microsoft is expected to reach. And tech blogs rather report on poor sales, than talk about the monthly firmware updates which not many in the industry are doing. Guess which would matter more to the end user? Yeah.

But I have to disagree on the app store optimism. The quality is abysmal and it is the largest thorn in the side of Windows tablets. On Windows Phone, we have quite a few official apps, and where we don't, there are these hotshot apps and developers we love to hold up for creating fantastic clients. Windows has none of that, and Microsoft either needs to consolidate the two stores ASAP, or start negotiating with (i.e. handing out money to) major developers like they are doing with Windows Phone.

Fact is, I can't replace an iPad with a Surface 2 and call it an upgrade. That's not because of Windows 8/RT, that's not because the hardware sucks, it's not because there's no support. It's because Microsoft's offering cannot hold a candle up to the iOS app store, plain and simple.
 

jlzimmerman

Member
Jan 3, 2013
815
7
18
Visit site
In fact, I don’t think it’s unfair to say that Windows Phone has a superior app market when compared to Windows RT.
Exactly. The apps in the Windows store are not only far fewer, but far more inferior to that of Windows Phone. Sure they have over 100K apps but many of them are very poor quality. And Microsoft, in the interest of getting numbers has allowed really pathetic apps in the store. Example: a new game called Cave Master. Install it and play this drivel. It should have never passed MS QA/QC.

The MS store is the only weakness in having my Surface Pro, imo.
 
Last edited:

azcruz

Active member
Jul 29, 2013
3,417
0
36
Visit site
Ditto. Just imagine how many Facebook and YouTube wannabes are in the store. Good thing they don't matter to me.



Sent from my Windows Phone 8S by HTC using Tapatalk
 

jlzimmerman

Member
Jan 3, 2013
815
7
18
Visit site
So they spend most of the article trashing Surface 2 based on Surface 1 facts, figures, and statements. Figures.


From the article:
Yes, the Surface 2 may run "100,000" apps available in the Windows Store, but if you purchased a new x86 copy of Photoshop even a year or two ago, it won't run on this device.
It's a consumption tablet, not a productivity tablet. THE IPAD CAN'T RUN PHOTOSHOP EITHER YOU MORONS BUT YOU POINT THIS OUT DO YOU?
 

HeyCori

Mod Emeritus
Mar 1, 2011
6,864
68
48
Visit site
So they spend most of the article trashing Surface 2 based on Surface 1 facts, figures, and statements. Figures.


From the article:
It's a consumption tablet, not a productivity tablet. THE IPAD CAN'T RUN PHOTOSHOP EITHER YOU MORONS BUT YOU POINT THIS OUT DO YOU?

Are there really that many people that want to do high-end graphical work on a 10 inch screen? I just don't see that many professionals looking to ditch their already powerful laptops for 10 inch tablets. I know Microsoft demoed R.E.D. video footage on the Surface Pro 2 to showcase its ability to process 6K data in real time. And legitimately, that's extremely useful for people working on set. But realistically, any movie director/editor is going to take that footage back to their actual workstation and edit the footage on a computer that costs way more than a Surface Pro 2. Portable x86 apps have their uses and the Surface Pro 2 is an extremely useful product, but tech pundits have a tendency to get wrapped in their own world.
 

Jazmac

New member
Jun 20, 2011
4,995
4
0
Visit site
Yes, that Engadget piece is awful trash, more than likely pre-written before the Surface 2 release and poised for attack.

Some bloggers on Engadget are among the most technically dishonest in tech. Most paid by google to create misinformation on anything that isn't android and sometimes IOS. Even that support of IOS on Engadget is waning.
 

Mike Gibson

New member
Apr 17, 2013
192
0
0
Visit site
All of this is just rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic. They could produce the most magical device, one that cures cancer while using it, but it will be DOA.

I'm speaking here as a C++ Windows ISV. The Metro Shell and its associated framework (the WinRT API) are a disaster ... and I doubt that MSFT will be able to recover from it. MSFT already had a *huge* ecosystem based on the Win32 API (now derisively referred to as the "legacy Desktop API" by MSFT personnel). They could have added a scalable UI API to Win32 and made it available (as a redistributable or via a SP) to the huge existing Win7 base. ISVs would have jumped on the new framework because would have solved two difficult problems at one time, high DPI and touch, while maintaining complete compatibility will existing non-UI code.

But no, MSFT had to waste years creating an entirely new framework (WinRT API) and suffer through all its growing pains (the inevitable bugs in a 1.00 product, horrible performance, etc.). Existing non-UI C++ code has to be rewritten due to compiler limitations, framework limitations, etc. They added an unbelievably stupid Async app model when Win32 already had the best multithreading support in any major OS.

Again, this is from a C++ developer's viewpoint (I don't care what MSFT does with .NET, C#, etc.). They f***ed up the core API and will end up regretting it.
 

techiez

Member
Nov 3, 2012
832
0
16
Visit site
I think money is more a factor than anything else. Microsoft can afford to take a loss on RT, just like they did for years with Xbox until it made profits.

Blackberry didn't have the money to continue taking losses. That's why they're getting bought out.
MS cud hv avoided bad press if they had handled wp7.8 better, they had money n resources for tht, but they decided to save some bucks n earn bad press.
MS might be on same path with RT, no body wud know if they r eventually working in background to bring WP8 to tablets n scrap RT leaving the users red faced again
 

grant.palin

New member
Nov 19, 2012
5
0
0
Visit site
I`ve had a Blackberry Playbook for two years. Still works for me, despite the recent news. However, if I didn`t have that, the Surface 2 would be my next choice. I don`t know why, but I do like the Win8 UI, despite some oddities - such as desktop mode on a tablet. As it is I`m still in uni so can`t justify spending the money right now. But I`ll be watching :) The rumblings about unifying WinPhone and Surface RT sound good to me, seem like they will simplify the Microsoft landscape a little bit.
 

dkediger

New member
Aug 29, 2013
671
0
0
Visit site
All of this is just rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic. ....
Again, this is from a C++ developer's viewpoint (I don't care what MSFT does with .NET, C#, etc.). They f***ed up the core API and will end up regretting it.

That's a nice, honest opinion. What's your take on this piece: Turning to the past to power Windows’ future: An in-depth look at WinRT | Ars Technica The writer pretty unequivocally puts WinRT as the new future of MS dev. Although he covers MS for ArsTechnica, he generally doesn't cut them any slack either.
 

Members online

No members online now.

Forum statistics

Threads
324,119
Messages
2,245,020
Members
428,170
Latest member
DestructoDisk