The elephant in the room: Lumia 830 vs. Moto G (2nd Gen)

[salmanahmad]

Lol Imreally don't think the 830 should be compared with a moto G it should really be compared with an iPhone. They are both underpowered phones that run well on their own platforms and are priced high. Even though the iPhone 6 has a lot more features than the 830, from the spec sheet alone they seem similar. Very similar.

I myself am more of an Android and Windows Phone supporter, bur even I will admit that the 830 can't be compared to a much more pricier iPhone 6.

Whatever the specs sheet tells you, isn't what you should base your decision on. The iPhone 6 absolutely blows the 830 out of the water in all aspects, and considering the higher price point it should.

These phones are either being sold at a loss (Nexus 5) or for no profit (OnePlusOne). Though the Nexus 5 gained some general popularity it is still not sold directly by AT&T or Verizon, and it gets almost no marketing support. The Nexus program was designed to seed the Android dev community with reference devices. The OnePlusOne is largely unknown outside of Android enthusiast community and is in very, very short supply (invitation only until recently). As with the Nexus, this phone is being used strategically to build awareness. If they can slowly ramp up manufacturing they may make a small profit within a few years; unless they use the notoriety to springboard the launch of a better phone at a price closer to normal levels.

Microsoft doesn't have the luxury of dozens of committed hardware partners. They cannot just flood the tiny WP market with under-priced phones and expect manufacturers to happily give up sales and profits. And while they seem jealous of Apple sometimes, I don't think there is any real interest in Redmond in going it alone as the sole maker of WP devices.

Since Microsoft isn't a poor company and they do own Nokia now, they could easily make an affordable "flagship" device, I'm sure they'll have to subsidise it quite a bit but considering that they've been supporting an OS that has had pretty rough chances of growth, this is the least they could've done.

According to teardowns of devices that are priced above $700 such as the Galaxy S4 it was revealed that they didn't cost above $270 to make, not including the research and development costs.

But even with the R&D costs, $400 is too much for the 830.

 

[prasath1234]

Lumia 830 does not have a great camera for low light even though it has pureview and optical image stabilisation.plz open your eyes and watch review on internet.lumia 830 is failure in India.lumia 730 best value for money wp device unless you are so attracted to looks and design.
From Windows phone

 

[techiez]

Here 730 launched at $240. That's a very good pricing. Also due to high pricing of 830, here snapdeal is providing a special $100 off on 830 if you buy it using WP app.

you should give the details as well
that 100$ (Rs 6000) from snapdeal is useless, its 1000Rs per month off on a purchase of Rs2100 and above

 

[techiez]

That's easy. OEM partners. MS cannot live on income from consumers. They need dozens and dozens of manufacturing partners to push out devices of every shape and size to every corner of the world. They're in a very delicate position with Lumia phones and Surface tablets. They need to push just enough to show what can be done, but not risk sucking up too much of the business. They're not a huge manufacturer like Samsung. They're a software company that dabbles in hardware. They're not Apple. They'll never own the whole process end to end; Windows is simply too large. And it is very, very difficult to make the kinds of profits that Apple does on the hardware side. Actually it is essentially impossible given that no one else does it.

So, yeah- they need OEMs and they need Enterprise. Obviously they need some footprint among consumers and in mobile given the whole BYOD movement and the risk that the next generation could grow up without having used Windows. But that is a secondary market for them. What they really need to do is keep improving Windows Phone software, get it to work more seamlessly with laptops and desktops, and work like hell to get more developers on board. If they can do that, I'd bet they'd be happy to have a much smaller role in making phones.

They shdnt have bought Nokia or soon they must spin off Devices division as a separate company, the reason for the current market share whatsoever is due to Nokia,

 

[Chris_Kez]

They shdnt have bought Nokia or soon they must spin off Devices division as a separate company, the reason for the current market share whatsoever is due to Nokia,

Yeah, I think they would have preferred not to but couldn't risk Nokia going all-in with Android and just watching the little world of WP completely collapse and implode. If they can get some growth over the next year or so, and other OEM's see some success then we may see MS spin off that division, just as Google did with Motorola. Heck, we could even see them send it back to Finland. Maybe Nokia buys it back at a discount and emerges as a leaner, meaner player in the smartphone world.

 

[Bodeanicus]

I'd like to see proof Google makes no profit off of the Nexus 5. All I can find is speculation. They do, however, make $15 per unit on the Nexus 7. It's safe to say Google is not selling the N5 at a loss. Lower than 30% Apple profit margin is not a "loss." Microsoft needs to be buying mindshare and market share with low prices right about now, don't you think?

 

[Bodeanicus]

They shdnt have bought Nokia or soon they must spin off Devices division as a separate company, the reason for the current market share whatsoever is due to Nokia,

How is it Nokia's fault that Microsoft has the worst marketing division in the world? Nokia went above and beyond, considering their circumstances. From an objective view, it appears Microsoft drove them into the ground through sheer incompetence.

 

[Chris_Kez]

Net-net, they certainly make a profit on the play store and through increased ad sales regardless of what happens with the hardware. The below links are by no means any kind of "smoking gun", nor does it really matter. No one outside of Mountain View will ever know. My point was just that the Nexus 5 and OnePlusOne do not necessarily reflect true market prices. Because Android is so large, and Google makes their money elsewhere, they can afford to release a somewhat niche device at below-market cost without hurting themselves or their partners very much. It's possible that partner grumbling, or the risk of it, may have also influenced Google's decision to quickly spin off Motorola and not remain in channel conflict by selling a range of phones that more directly compete with other Android OEM's portfolios.

Here's why T-Mobile's Nexus 5 is $100 more than at Google Play - CNET

Is Google subsidizing the price of the $299 LG Nexus 4? | 9to5Google

 

[Bodeanicus]

Windows Phone has been on life support from Office sales for 4 years, and will continue to be for the near future. Microsoft can afford to break even on phones to buy market share.

 

[Chris_Kez]

Windows Phone has been on life support from Office sales for 4 years, and will continue to be for the near future. Microsoft can afford to break even on phones to buy market share.

Will they subsidize HTC or any of the other dozen partners they just brought on board? Or will those guys have to compete with discounted phones from MS? The reality is those guys don't stick around if they can't profitably sell phones. And MS clearly doesn't want to go it alone. Could they have shaved a few dollars off the 830's starting price? Sure, and I wish they did for my own sake, but I assume they know the risk/reward situation better than we do.