The inevitable debate...

[Leonel Funes]

Today, the iPad Pro arrived, complete with iOS 9, keyboard cover and a Pencil... Does it pose a threat to the Surface Pro 3 [and upcoming Pro 4]? Or will The Surface Pro 3/4 thrive?

 

[stevesu]

I think you'll find Microsoft is happy when folks copy their stuff. It points to how good it is.
I'm not watching, nor do I care what apple does, however I spent a bit of time working on iPad compete stuff and I recall nobody wanted anything negative - just comparison numbers on pro-Microsoft...no anti-any other company.
I just saw a comparison chart on another site and other than resolution, Surface and Surface Pro beats the iPad stuff pretty easily.

 

[Leonel Funes]

I think you'll find Microsoft is happy when folks copy their stuff. It points to how good it is.
I'm not watching, nor do I care what apple does, however I spent a bit of time working on iPad compete stuff and I recall nobody wanted anything negative - just comparison numbers on pro-Microsoft...no anti-any other company.
I just saw a comparison chart on another site and other than resolution, Surface and Surface Pro beats the iPad stuff pretty easily.

My thoughts exactly - although the resolution of the SP3 isn't bad at all... I see it as an iPad RT, since it's not OS X running in that thing.

 

[WillysJeepMan]

My thoughts exactly - although the resolution of the SP3 isn't bad at all... I see it as an iPad RT, since it's not OS X running in that thing.

I suspect that the iPad Pro not only is NOT a threat to the Surface line, but will actually bolster it. Apple's pricing of the tablet, pen, and keyboard are in line with Microsoft's pricing... but for a device that is still heavily restricted.

Your referring to the iPad Pro as the iPad RT is actually quite insightful... but I think gives the iPad Pro too much credit. The Surface RT had all of the connectivity options as the Surface Pro. The iPad Pro does not have support for mice/trackpads, nor USB peripherals.

 

[jojoe42]

I think the iPad Pro slots nicely into Apple's believe that if you use their products you can do anything pros can. For example, they're selling it as a tool for productivity, graphic designers and office workers. With my mother working in a business encouraging the Pro 3 and one of my relatives working in a business encouraging iPads, the latter ended up switching to SP3s. The iPad Pro will be good for consumers, students and anyone else NOT looking to do serious work. It just lacks too many features, ports and isn't powerful enough. One of the reasons why my relatives' company switched to Surfaces is because you could dock it in and have a keyboard/mouse combo running Archicad and full Outlook on multiple monitors. The average consumer won't be so concerned about that - if the product is more user-friendly that will always take precedence. So in summary - iPad Pro for "work", Surface Pro for people who want to get actual things done. It's just that Apple has taken out a chunk of users who probably used it for education and/or nothing serious

 

[Edward Johnston1]

You guys are such fanboys. Say what you will about ports. The A9x chip is much much much more powerful than the silly Intel ultrabook processor. And sky lake won't change that much either.


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[WillysJeepMan]

You guys are such fanboys. Say what you will about ports. The A9x chip is much much much more powerful than the silly Intel ultrabook processor. And sky lake won't change that much either.


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If all one cares about is staring lovingly at a spec sheet of the processor, then you are absolutely correct. But if one needs to actually get stuff done, then the power of the processor is only one small piece of the overall equation.

 

[jmerrey]

Makes me miss the MS Touch Cover. It was so perfect for the Surface line I thought. Sad they got rid of it.

 

[Michael Alan Goff]

They're both good products with different philosophies. One won't kill the other. Heck, they're not even the same product or way of going about solving the same problem. Microsoft is trimming down Windows to be a tablet OS, coming down from complex to a more simple. Apple is trying to make simple more complex. One is a hybrid, both in OS and hardware, and the other is a tablet with some things added.

 

[morozshawn]

Surface all the way for me..

 

[skstrials]

Neither, I find the Surface quite overpriced compared to other Windows tablets.

I would just go for a decent Windows tablet from Dell or Lenovo.

 

[Edward Johnston1]

Why do you guys need ports anyways? Ports are not important, use cloud, wireless printing, AirPlay or miracast. I just don't see why people care. Bluetooth itself can connect to most anything. I already had an argument with a guy cause I believe Apple should remove the headphone port and make their device slimmer, especially the six plus which is very difficult to hold.


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[WillysJeepMan]

Why do you guys need ports anyways? Ports are not important, use cloud, wireless printing, AirPlay or miracast. I just don't see why people care. Bluetooth itself can connect to most anything. I already had an argument with a guy cause I believe Apple should remove the headphone port and make their device slimmer, especially the six plus which is very difficult to hold.

Again, it is about functionality not looks. Ports are still important for many people who use their devices beyond watching YouTube videos and snapchatting.

Those of us who use our devices in business settings often find a need for a USB port. Exchanging data with a client is just one scenario. When using the device for presentations, having a USB port allows one to use a presentation remote. Apple's suggested solution is to use your iPhone as a remote. That's goofy. Not only is it difficult to use a touchscreen device when presenting (need to look down for the "next slide" spot on the screen), but walking on stage with a phablet is dumb. Notice that Apple presenters themselves don't use that solution for THEIR presentations.

My non-pro Surface 2 (running the limited Windows RT) handles this presentation scenario perfectly whereas the "pro" iPad Pro fails. The iPad Pro may be a pro device for CREATIVE professionals, but for BUSINESS professionals... not so much.

 

[Zulfigar]

Why do you guys need ports anyways? Ports are not important, use cloud, wireless printing, AirPlay or miracast. I just don't see why people care. Bluetooth itself can connect to most anything. I already had an argument with a guy cause I believe Apple should remove the headphone port and make their device slimmer, especially the six plus which is very difficult to hold.

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I can't tell if you're serious here, or a troll. Hmm, but either way, not every peripheral has wireless (most headphones don't, and the ones that do, do not sound as good as wired headphones). Then you have displays and keyboards, which alright, you can get a dongle for and it'll work just fine.

Though, back to the iPad Pro vs Surface Pro, the Surface Pro can run the full suite of Adobe software, where the iPad Pro only gets the dumbed down version because the hardware isn't true x86 (or x64 in the Surface's case), so it can't run desktop apps. So essentially, the iPad Pro is just a bigger iPad, where as the Surface Pro is more of a laptop.

 

[Edward Johnston1]

Again, it is about functionality not looks. Ports are still important for many people who use their devices beyond watching YouTube videos and snapchatting.

Those of us who use our devices in business settings often find a need for a USB port. Exchanging data with a client is just one scenario. When using the device for presentations, having a USB port allows one to use a presentation remote. Apple's suggested solution is to use your iPhone as a remote. That's goofy. Not only is it difficult to use a touchscreen device when presenting (need to look down for the "next slide" spot on the screen), but walking on stage with a phablet is dumb. Notice that Apple presenters themselves don't use that solution for THEIR presentations.

My non-pro Surface 2 (running the limited Windows RT) handles this presentation scenario perfectly whereas the "pro" iPad Pro fails. The iPad Pro may be a pro device for CREATIVE professionals, but for BUSINESS professionals... not so much.

Ok first off there are Bluetooth clickers, so you do not need a usb to do that. And as for sending files to clients, you could have it on an FTP like I do. But if that's not an option you can cloud share it via Dropbox. Encrypted share via airdrop. Or if you have a secure mail server, just email it. Or if it's small enough Bluetooth transfer it.

Anything else is Microsoft being Microsoft and embracing the past instead of forcing their customer base forward, even if painful in transition. This is something Apple understands and executed on to get ahead of Microsoft.

USB needs to die, it's a terrible connector, have to plug it in the right way, relatively fragile. Most importantly it's large and makes devices thicker for it. You can live in the past, but the future is way nicer, trust me.


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[Edward Johnston1]

I can't tell if you're serious here, or a troll. Hmm, but either way, not every peripheral has wireless (most headphones don't, and the ones that do, do not sound as good as wired headphones). Then you have displays and keyboards, which alright, you can get a dongle for and it'll work just fine.

Though, back to the iPad Pro vs Surface Pro, the Surface Pro can run the full suite of Adobe software, where the iPad Pro only gets the dumbed down version because the hardware isn't true x86 (or x64 in the Surface's case), so it can't run desktop apps. So essentially, the iPad Pro is just a bigger iPad, where as the Surface Pro is more of a laptop.

It's not because it's x86, or ARM. ARM is as capable, and more capable in power constrained situations than x86. The applications haven't been written for iPad yet, but they will. If you want to criticize iPad pro for having trouble getting pro apps written( they made good progress), lets criticize Microsoft for selling a touchscreen device with a terrible touchscreen app ecosystem. Universal apps cannot match the quality of ground up touch based apps. So they both got problems. And in the end I believe they will meet somewhere in between.

My professor is a molecular biology researcher, she has a MacBook and an iPad, and she reads research articles on the iPad all day, and she comments on them and replies back, grades our proposal grants. She is being extremely productive, she has many publications. The iPad or surface don't make you productive, you are or your not.

To her, a person who owns a retina 2015 MacBook Pro, chooses her iPad Air 2. Why? I believe the lightweight form factor appeals to her when reading and taking notes, we have to read and take notes for hours upon a day, I don't think anyone wants to hold a surface pro 3 for that long. Thin and light is not about looks, it's an important part of the functionality of a product. Do stop looking down on thin and light as only minor traits.


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[WillysJeepMan]

Ok first off there are Bluetooth clickers, so you do not need a usb to do that.

Do you actually use one on an iPad or simply did a search for it? I have tried them. They are not officially supported on iOS. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. Modifying some accessibility options in iOS settings can sometimes get them to work. But there's no guarantee. When giving a presentation the last thing one needs to worry about is if their remote is going to work.

And as for sending files to clients, you could have it on an FTP like I do. But if that's not an option you can cloud share it via Dropbox. Encrypted share via airdrop. Or if you have a secure mail server, just email it. Or if it's small enough Bluetooth transfer it.

Sorry, but when a customer has a file on a thumbdrive ready to hand it to me, I'm not going to tell them to stuff it and put it on an FTP server (as if they'd know how to do that). Using the cloud is a fine workaround when it is needed (as is the case with iOS), but not as preferable as a direct solution such as this.

Anything else is Microsoft being Microsoft and embracing the past instead of forcing their customer base forward, even if painful in transition. This is something Apple understands and executed on to get ahead of Microsoft.

USB needs to die, it's a terrible connector, have to plug it in the right way, relatively fragile. Most importantly it's large and makes devices thicker for it. You can live in the past, but the future is way nicer, trust me.

It's not about being devoted to an OS and modifying my workflow to accommodate that, it's about the OS accommodating MY workflow. The iPad Pro requires the user to dramatically alter their workflow to accommodate the device. That is a fail for business professionals.

As for living in the past vs. living in the future, my devices and configurations for personal use are quite different than the needs imposed by my profession. The whole point of the discussion is about PRO as in professional, not personal preferences.

 

[Edward Johnston1]

So your saying people should always use USB or whatever else in professional settings? No. Transitions can be forced, I remember when iPhone started to come out and higher up management forced IT teams to support the iPhone rather than just blackberries and palms. If the will is there the change can occur.

Now I am not even talking about the iPad pro, that could be great or sucky, I haven't used it so I don't know. I am just speaking about embracing change.

 

[WillysJeepMan]

So your saying people should always use USB or whatever else in professional settings? No. Transitions can be forced,

You obviously didn't read what I wrote.

 

[Edward Johnston1]

I have and my answer is that you can tel customers to email it to you. That's key. Be the change you want to see.