War of ecosystems - Apple vs MS

[cluberti]

It's not even about who's ecosystem is better right now, it's getting new users to choose a platform other than Apple's, and the only other real option is the Microsoft ecosystem (you can do similar things with Android devices and different applications and services, but it's in no way integrated yet). People who are comfortable with the Apple ecosystem will stay there until there's a compelling reason to switch, AND people in the media tell them to (well, not all, but most will need more than just a compelling competitor's product at a reasonable price). It is what it is, unfortunately for Microsoft. However, I think with good marketing and perseverance, they could become a close second in the market to Apple, although that will take time and chipping away more at Android's market share than Apple's.

 

[brmiller1976]

The reality is, Microsoft's ecosystem is still the most important.

Just look at the average "switcher" over to the Mac side. They still need Office and Windows running on VMware.

The average switcher to a PC is convinced that he's going to have a terrible experience, until he actually tries it.

I was a Mac guy years ago and "switched" (I'm now bi-platform. Typing on a Mac right now).

I was convinced it was the end of the world to go to a Windows machine. But I figured I'd try it out.

To my surprise, everything was smooth. Windows Movie Maker was BETTER than iMovie. I had better experience with Office on PC than Mac. The hardware was much cheaper and faster. And software... oh, all the software!

No more VMware. No more having to run at half speed and hope that the Windows environment would talk well with the Mac environment!

It. Was. Glorious.

And Microsoft still offers that today. With next-gen Windows, they up the ante by bringing the phone into the mix.

Sure, Windows Phone doesn't have iTunes and iMovie and iWork. It has XBox Music, Movie Maker and Office. All of which are similar, better, cheaper and work with what "everyone" uses on the desktop.

It won't take long to win that battle in most places.

 

[smoledman]

I think the advantage MS also has over Apple is its OEM partners and its use of more open standards. Apple is content to make exclusive standards that work only between the iDevice and whatever accessory you have, MS on the other hand is actually a bit more open. DLNA far more expansive than AirPlay which means you have more choice, and it will work between more than just any specific brand of devices if the OEM wants to. The same can be said for cables and ports. In addition developers have been writing apps for Windows for a long time it should only be a small leap to start making WinRT apps and from there a small leap to Windows Phone 8.

except AirPlay just works already with Apple devices. I've yet to see a single DLNA example for the Microsoft ecosystem. Seems more like vaporware at this point.

 

[smoledman]

Elop loves to use the words, but honestly, October 26th is closing on us and MS did bring the big guns out against Apple for this battle.

Smartphones - Lumia 920 vs iPhone 5
Tablets - Surface + Surface Pro vs the new iPad + iPad Mini
Laptops - Ultrabooks vs Macbook Air
Desktop - Touch-enabled AIOs vs iMacs
Cloud - MS account vs iCloud

The one thing Apple lacks in this fight is the Xbox competitor at the living room, but Apple's still trying to figure it out, so that's one point for MS now. How will the battle pan out?

Uh Apple has Airplay & Mirroring. Microsoft has no answer for this yet.

 

[brmiller1976]

Airplay only works on Apple-licensed devices (which are relatively rare).

DLNA and NFC works on open-standards devices, which are readily available and at much lower cost.

Of course, there's also plain old Bluetooth streaming, which is even easier and cheaper and more ubiquitous.

 

[anon(5335877)]

Airplay only works on Apple-licensed devices (which are relatively rare).

DLNA and NFC works on open-standards devices, which are readily available and at much lower cost.

Of course, there's also plain old Bluetooth streaming, which is even easier and cheaper and more ubiquitous.

Bluetooth can't stream video, can it? Not enough throughput.

 

[brmiller1976]

True enough, it cannot.

Then again, ever try streaming video via Airplay from an iPhone to an AppleTV? Stutter/pixel city!

 

[anon(5335877)]

True enough, it cannot.

Then again, ever try streaming video via Airplay from an iPhone to an AppleTV? Stutter/pixel city!

Lol, I haven't. Maybe I'll try it sometime.

 

[brmiller1976]

Extra credit if you stream the content via WiFi while simultaneously connecting to the AppleTV via the same WiFi router. You'll be taken back to Amiga days.

 

[power5]

I took my brother's 2008 unibody white macbook to Colorado on my last trip. My dad is an apple lover as well. They have an apple TV out there and wireless router. I hooked the apple tv up to my brother's itunes account on his laptop over the wireless and was able to stream any of my movies I wanted. Well, any that were in mp4 format. So, I did not have any 1080p mp4 files to try, but I had plenty of 2gb movies compressed down from 1080p. None had a single problem. This was also while Dad was doing his thing with his iPad, and I was on my TITAN. No problems at all. Never had to even buffer.

Still hate the stupid itunes need for streaming my content to the TV using apple TV and itunes compatible formats. I have nearly 2tb of movies on my HDDs but can only watch a handful that are in the itunes format. That is why I will never support apple again. The stranglehold they have on your experience. Now, had I known that apple would be the front runner in the ecosystems battle 10 years ago, I may have converted my movies to mp4 from the start. But now I will just go with a brand that is more accessible. And I want to get a tiny acer revo type PC to take with me to colorado next time so I can just bypass the whole apple tv BS and plug straight into the TV.

 

[brmiller1976]

Airplay works much better with laptops than phones.

On a notebook, it's good enough to drive a PowerPoint presentation.

 

[sconrad308]

Xbox will be able to stream and be controlled from your PC and a WP8 device with Smart Glass. It will all be out there when it is all released and announced.

 

[snowmutt]

Really, I think what we see coming on (provided Windows 8 and WP 8 doesn't disappoint, which there is no reason to expect it will) is the battle to grow the respected ecosystems.

Apple: Itunes, iPad and iPhone has not translated to huge TV streaming revenue or successful cloud intergration. They do have a decent foothold in the business world, but Mac computers are a drop in the bucket compared to Windows PC's and MS Office.

Microsoft: Needs their huge lead in their business platforms and gaming to translate into better Tablet, smartphone, and streaming successes. They need companies to adopt Windows Pro Tablets and WP8 smartphones, they need their XBOX users to translate into Windows RT Tablets and WP8 smartphones. XBOX music needs to be at least seen as a good option. Zune never was.

It is strange: Apple needs their Mobile to bring in other user streams, Microsoft needs all their other streams of users to adopt mobile. Totally different ends of the spectrum.

 

[ImmortalWarrior]

I took my brother's 2008 unibody white macbook to Colorado on my last trip. My dad is an apple lover as well. They have an apple TV out there and wireless router. I hooked the apple tv up to my brother's itunes account on his laptop over the wireless and was able to stream any of my movies I wanted. Well, any that were in mp4 format. So, I did not have any 1080p mp4 files to try, but I had plenty of 2gb movies compressed down from 1080p. None had a single problem. This was also while Dad was doing his thing with his iPad, and I was on my TITAN. No problems at all. Never had to even buffer.

Still hate the stupid itunes need for streaming my content to the TV using apple TV and itunes compatible formats. I have nearly 2tb of movies on my HDDs but can only watch a handful that are in the itunes format. That is why I will never support apple again. The stranglehold they have on your experience. Now, had I known that apple would be the front runner in the ecosystems battle 10 years ago, I may have converted my movies to mp4 from the start. But now I will just go with a brand that is more accessible. And I want to get a tiny acer revo type PC to take with me to colorado next time so I can just bypass the whole apple tv BS and plug straight into the TV.

Exactly the problem. I have 4 PC's in this house, all of them connected to my "above average" home network. My network is made up of several Wireless Access Points, and wired segments so I have full coverage in every room of the house. My TV, Blu Ray player, and Xbox all have the ability to see each computer's media library as long as they are on and connected to the network. Who needs Airplay? I turn on my TV, select menu, select Videos, and BAM.... all 4 PC's media libraries and shared directories are visible. I can then select movies to stream with sorting options to make navigation easier.

My TV also supports DLNA to stream video from my Lumia. I didn't have to buy anything special.... these are standard features on medium ranged flat panel televisions.

The only thing missing from Microsoft's offerings that Apple can do, is the ability for Airplay to mirror your phone or tablet. Microsoft's answer to that is SmartGlass.

There is no need for Apple devices to do this. Just the other day I was visiting my mom and she was talking about how she wanted an ipad (she is a BB user :S) so she could stream video to her TV and what not. I pointed out the fact that her TV already connects to her network and that in 2 minutes, I could have her computer streaming video to the TV with no extra devices. I simply enabled sharing on her media library and instantly she was able to view her media. Simple, and standardized. None of this Apple proprietary technology ****.

 

[Nakazul]

I am scared for the survival of Windows.

Okej, I been wondering something, and let me play devils advocat for a bit. Windows 8 RT is considered a content creation device? How is this possible with next to non desktop support? Metro apps are very primitive, and im wondering if there isn't more creation software on a iPad, I mean, except for a better UI from Windows, The apple products have a established app base, Windows does not. So with this in my mind, im sceptical. People will, at least here in Sweden, see a tablet (read iPad), very little local native support because all Windows apps are still on desktop. If people buy a Windows RT device and then look over the shoulder at a iPad device, this thing might end up with not many happy customers. The most common question from people on my WP are, "-where are the app?". People like my neighbour for example likes content in apps, and he ended up with a iPhone because he couldn't play the games his friends and colleges played. Another friend I managed to push in to liking WP stopped using his new Lumia 800 device after 3 days. He have some (like many others over here) some apps he needed and they where nowhere to be found. His little kid got a LG Optimus 7, and he's almost tormented to bring his device to school because all his friends play games and uses apps he don't have. Now, add that the Lumia 800 came with no internet sharing (a standard over here), bad audio, troubled battery and a not to good camera and I don't dare to speak about WP to him, and he clearly stated that he will not be getting any WP devices anytime soon. He really liked the UI, but what did that help when he missed content he needed and clearly got a bad impression? Based on my tips and enthusiasm to him, he recommended a friend to buy a Lumia 800 the same time he bought his, and she came almost crying back with faults of the device, but also how all the apps she used on her Android where nowhere to be seen. I hear this app story over, and over, and over again. There might not need to be quantity, but there sure is a lot still missing, and all the new Lumia 800 users that was disappointed is gonna be bad press. If you live in USA, you are getting a different experience on Windows Phone then the rest of the world, and that needs to end permanently with Windows 8 if Microsoft intend to sell Win RT outside there home turf. Say what you will about apple, but there managed a very similar experience throughout the world. I hope all the new Windows product does well, but as it currently stand, if Windows 8 RT fail, it might affect Windows 8, and there is a risk of a domino effect. So, Windows 8 RT, plz bring content with lots of apps or im no so sure anymore about the success of Metro......

They have official Apple stores here in Sweden now btw :-(

 

[Mitlov]

@Nakazul:

Paragraphs. They're your friend.

Anyway, the Surface RT is a content creation device because it's got a Microsoft Office (on the desktop, no less) plus a keyboard. For a lot of people, particularly students, that's all they need for content creation.

 

[Nakazul]

@Nakazul:

Paragraphs. They're your friend.

Anyway, the Surface RT is a content creation device because it's got a Microsoft Office (on the desktop, no less) plus a keyboard. For a lot of people, particularly students, that's all they need for content creation.

So Win RT will be a Office machine? Sounds a bit dry :-/

(Sorry, native language is not English)

 

[Mitlov]

So Win RT will be a Office machine? Sounds a bit dry :-/

(Sorry, native language is not English)

No, white-collar-oriented tablets will run x86 processors (either Atom or Ivy Bridge) and will run the full version of Windows 8, not Windows RT.

Windows RT is aimed at consumers (not industry), but consumers who want their recreational tablet to double as something they can do schoolwork or long emails or note-taking. MS Office plus the emphasis on keyboard docks add a level of utility that the iPad doesn't have. Windows RT is still aimed at ordinary consumers, who like reading books, watching movies, surfing the internet, playing touchscreen games, etc, but ALSO want to be able to use MS Office.

 

[power5]

Okej, I been wondering something, and let me play devils advocat for a bit. Windows 8 RT is considered a content creation device? How is this possible with next to non desktop support? Metro apps are very primitive, and im wondering if there isn't more creation software on a iPad, I mean, except for a better UI from Windows, The apple products have a established app base, Windows does not. So with this in my mind, im sceptical. People will, at least here in Sweden, see a tablet (read iPad), very little local native support because all Windows apps are still on desktop. If people buy a Windows RT device and then look over the shoulder at a iPad device, this thing might end up with not many happy customers. The most common question from people on my WP are, "-where are the app?". People like my neighbour for example likes content in apps, and he ended up with a iPhone because he couldn't play the games his friends and colleges played. Another friend I managed to push in to liking WP stopped using his new Lumia 800 device after 3 days. He have some (like many others over here) some apps he needed and they where nowhere to be found. His little kid got a LG Optimus 7, and he's almost tormented to bring his device to school because all his friends play games and uses apps he don't have. Now, add that the Lumia 800 came with no internet sharing (a standard over here), bad audio, troubled battery and a not to good camera and I don't dare to speak about WP to him, and he clearly stated that he will not be getting any WP devices anytime soon. He really liked the UI, but what did that help when he missed content he needed and clearly got a bad impression? Based on my tips and enthusiasm to him, he recommended a friend to buy a Lumia 800 the same time he bought his, and she came almost crying back with faults of the device, but also how all the apps she used on her Android where nowhere to be seen. I hear this app story over, and over, and over again. There might not need to be quantity, but there sure is a lot still missing, and all the new Lumia 800 users that was disappointed is gonna be bad press. If you live in USA, you are getting a different experience on Windows Phone then the rest of the world, and that needs to end permanently with Windows 8 if Microsoft intend to sell Win RT outside there home turf. Say what you will about apple, but there managed a very similar experience throughout the world. I hope all the new Windows product does well, but as it currently stand, if Windows 8 RT fail, it might affect Windows 8, and there is a risk of a domino effect. So, Windows 8 RT, plz bring content with lots of apps or im no so sure anymore about the success of Metro......

They have official Apple stores here in Sweden now btw :-(

Wow long drawn out story about followers not being happy because they can not still follow their friends. Sound like well to do followers so why not just keep their other devices they had before their WPs? She "had" an android? What happened to it? Last I checked I could still download anything I want on my iphone 3g that I stopped using a year ago. Just have to do it over wireless not 3g. Her android should do the same. If you have to do what your friends do, keep that other device around for those times. Here is a thought, find a new game on WP that you love and then see about getting those friends to find the game on their devices instead of always being the follower. As I have said, the only apps I need that are not available are banking apps. A game is a game to me. A 30 minute distraction that I am usually bored with after the trial runs out anyway.

 

[saintforlife]

True enough, it cannot.

Then again, ever try streaming video via Airplay from an iPhone to an AppleTV? Stutter/pixel city!

Sorry, buy my experience has been completely opposite. I stream videos and games from my iPad/iPhone to my Apple TV all the time using AirPlay. It works flawlessly both with youtube videos and games. Maybe it is your wifi connection that is at fault?