was the apple win good for wp? I think yes

[sentimentGX4]

I am nuts along side ya. I have been making the case for a year that Apple has peaked. I see them along the same area as RIM. Stuck trying to compete updating both the hardware and the software. Meanwhile all their competitors are moving twice as fast doing only half the R&D.

Let's be realistic. Samsung, HTC, and Nokia are not innovators. As hyped up Apple's reputation may be, a company like Samsung being in the same sentence as "innovation" makes me laugh.

 

[palandri]

Let's be realistic. Samsung, HTC, and Nokia are not innovators. As hyped up Apple's reputation may be, a company like Samsung being in the same sentence as "innovation" makes me laugh.

You don't think the 41MP camera on the Pureview was innovative?

 

[scottcraft]

Let's be realistic. Samsung, HTC, and Nokia are not innovators. As hyped up Apple's reputation may be, a company like Samsung being in the same sentence as "innovation" makes me laugh.

S beam, photo share, sliding the hand across the screen to take a screenshot, putting a hand over the screen to stop the music player: all features the Galaxy S3 have that the iPhone doesn't.

The HTC One X and the GS3 can take still pictures while shooting video.

As palandri said the Nokia pure view is a 41 megapixel camera.

The iPhone is certainly nice, but it is not on the cutting edge of innovation.

 

[sentimentGX4]

This is a major victory for Microsoft. The $1 billion in damages isn't the thing to watch. The potential injunctions against Samsung will have significantly deeper implications.

This could literally kill Android and leave Windows Phones as one of the sole iPhone alternatives for months and months. OEMs will have no option but to sell Windows Phones, which are free from the threat of lawsuits.

S beam, photo share, sliding the hand across the screen to take a screenshot, putting a hand over the screen to stop the music player: all features the Galaxy S3 have that the iPhone doesn't.

Other than S Beam and Pureview, these are all minor features that the OEMs did not even necessarily innovate or freshly introduce to Android OS.

There were/are dozens of apps that add gimmicky gesture features to phones. I'm confident the music player "stop" gesture has even been around since Symbian. Are you sure there isn't an app for taking video stills?

Apple pioneered a significant portion of the touchscreen GUI. That its contributions are compared to unoriginal, little features added by OEMs like Samsung is rather unfair.

 

[threed61]

Improving old ideas is innovation, but not the same as creating something truly new. Its not however usually worthy of a patent, if you use the American patent definition of useful, new and non obvious.

 

[Reflexx]

Let's be realistic. Samsung, HTC, and Nokia are not innovators. As hyped up Apple's reputation may be, a company like Samsung being in the same sentence as "innovation" makes me laugh.

Nokia has been innovating for decades.

Their history is full of innovative handsets.

 

[Retro_uk]

There is a quote floating around from one of the jurors where they said they skipped some vital areas. Here is the quote:

Samsung had provided evidence of what they believed to be prior art, to show that Apple's patents were invalid. The jury deliberated this at length, but then rather interestingly, eventually decided to skip this evidence, because it bogged them down:

"After we debated that first patent -- what was prior art --because we had a hard time believing there was no prior art, that there wasn't something out there before Apple. In fact we skipped that one so we could go on faster. It was bogging us down".

What?! This is critical evidence that the jury skipped, just because it was "difficult" to go through. This point is likely to form an important part of Samsung's appeal and it's right and proper that it does so.

Safe bet that will be brought to notice when Samsung appeal.

 

[Joelist]

There is a quote floating around from one of the jurors where they said they skipped some vital areas. Here is the quote:

Samsung had provided evidence of what they believed to be prior art, to show that Apple's patents were invalid. The jury deliberated this at length, but then rather interestingly, eventually decided to skip this evidence, because it bogged them down:

"After we debated that first patent -- what was prior art --because we had a hard time believing there was no prior art, that there wasn't something out there before Apple. In fact we skipped that one so we could go on faster. It was bogging us down".

What?! This is critical evidence that the jury skipped, just because it was "difficult" to go through. This point is likely to form an important part of Samsung's appeal and it's right and proper that it does so.

Safe bet that will be brought to notice when Samsung appeal.

I would think so. In fact that quote is going to pretty much seal the deal for Samsung on appeal as it is proof the jury did not consider the evidence in their deliberations.

 

[scottcraft]

Other than S Beam and Pureview, these are all minor features that the OEMs did not even necessarily innovate or freshly introduce to Android OS.

There were/are dozens of apps that add gimmicky gesture features to phones. I'm confident the music player "stop" gesture has even been around since Symbian. Are you sure there isn't an app for taking video stills?

Apple pioneered a significant portion of the touchscreen GUI. That its contributions are compared to unoriginal, little features added by OEMs like Samsung is rather unfair.

I will say that innovate might be the wrong word to use. Yes some of the features of the GS3 have been used by others before, S Beam is one of them and you are probably right about the stop gesture too. Their might be a third party app for taking a still shot during a video, but the GS3 and HTC One X can do it with the built in camera app. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that Samsung put all of these features in the GS3 that were not in the GS2, so it seems to me that they are doing a lot of things to separate their phones from the pack. From all of the rumors I've heard Samsung has improved from the GS2 to the GS3 more than Apple will have improved the iPhone from the 4S to the new iPhone.

In regards to the touchscreen GUI I have read in various threads on an Apple forum that many of the features of the touchscreen were used in other phones prior to the iPhone. I'm not going to preach that as gospel because I don't have links with me, but the posts I have read provided links.

 

[dtristan111]

This lawsuit will not kill Android at all. It will force Google to innovate even more leaving iOS behind. Remember Google has that crazy sci-fi Google X lab and learning from Apples lawsuits they are surely going to patent everything. Plus they now also have Motorola's patent portfolio so the lawsuits from Google to Apple are coming in no time.

Microsoft and Nokia's patent portfolios are huge as well.

So if Apple continues to make lawsuits they will get crushed by lawsuits coming in their direction.

 

[palandri]

Nokia has been innovating for decades.

Their history is full of innovative handsets.

Plus innovation with software if you look at the Nokia Beta Labs web page.

 

[GoodThings2Life]

Are you freaking kidding me?! You're going to call Apple innovative just because they took the Windows 3.1 Program Manager concept of icons in a grid layout and made them look "pretty"? Oh wait, Blackberry had been doing that for years minus the pretty hardware, and everyone from Palm to Microsoft had touchscreens and such long before.

Apple is no different than any other company... they see an idea, they improve on it and claim it new and revolutionary. Every company does this, and every company comes up with some genuinely new ideas too. You don't get to claim one side is true while ignoring all the others.

Anyway, I still think this helps Microsoft in the long run, because I think Apple's "revolutionary" updates are behind them, and I think Google is going to continue to leave it up to the OEMs to defend themselves. That makes Microsoft very appealing, but as others have stated... ONLY if they can really generate some excitement with Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8.

This is Microsoft golden opportunity, and I'm excited to see if they'll take it.

 

[GoodThings2Life]

There is a quote floating around from one of the jurors where they said they skipped some vital areas. Here is the quote:

Samsung had provided evidence of what they believed to be prior art, to show that Apple's patents were invalid. The jury deliberated this at length, but then rather interestingly, eventually decided to skip this evidence, because it bogged them down:

"After we debated that first patent -- what was prior art --because we had a hard time believing there was no prior art, that there wasn't something out there before Apple. In fact we skipped that one so we could go on faster. It was bogging us down".

Safe bet they use that, indeed! This is absolutely ludicrous, and had Judge Koh been responsible, she'd have tossed their ruling out.

Apple has, as others have stated, a long history of running head-first into a battle in the market, and yet in spite of having armed themselves with flashy weapons, they always get their butts handed to them in the long run. So what do they do? They turn and run to courts for help.

Apple has a very long history of not being able to get the job done when Steve Jobs isn't running the show, and this is just history repeating. It will not serve them well long term.

However, as I've suggested elsewhere, this sets precedence for Samsung and other OEM's to reconsider whether Google Android is the right direction for them. Google won't save them, and they're paying money to Microsoft anyway... why not skip the middle man and go back to Microsoft?

 

[crystal_planet]

This lawsuit will not kill Android at all. It will force Google to innovate even more leaving iOS behind. Remember Google has that crazy sci-fi Google X lab and learning from Apples lawsuits they are surely going to patent everything. Plus they now also have Motorola's patent portfolio so the lawsuits from Google to Apple are coming in no time.

Microsoft and Nokia's patent portfolios are huge as well.

So if Apple continues to make lawsuits they will get crushed by lawsuits coming in their direction.

Oh Lord, let it be so. I'm so tired of Cook thumping his chest every time a lawsuit is launched by Apple and his "That'll teach em to steal from us!" rants. I'd love to read some his emails in response to incoming litigation.

Apple used to be the innovative little guy that the public couldn't help but root for - especially against the evil empire that is Microsoft. Now they have proven themselves to be just another greedy corporate entity bent on world domination.

I love it.

 

[sentimentGX4]

This lawsuit will not kill Android at all. It will force Google to innovate even more leaving iOS behind. Remember Google has that crazy sci-fi Google X lab and learning from Apples lawsuits they are surely going to patent everything. Plus they now also have Motorola's patent portfolio so the lawsuits from Google to Apple are coming in no time.

Microsoft and Nokia's patent portfolios are huge as well.

So if Apple continues to make lawsuits they will get crushed by lawsuits coming in their direction.

You are wrong. The bulk of Motorola, Samsung, and Nokia's patent portfolio are useless FRAND patents. These are industry standard patents that MUST be licensed at a reasonable rate.

Samsung and Google are abusing their FRAND portfolios and are under probes from a number of governments. (As a non industry no worker, you probably don't realize how horrified and angry other companies are at Samsung or Google for using FRAND in litigation.)

Read here for more info:
http://mobile.theverge.com/2012/6/30/3127315/ftc-reportedly-investigating-google-over-motorolas-use-of-frand
http://www.fosspatents.com/2012/06/googlemotorola-reportedly-being.html?m=1
http://mobile.theverge.com/2012/2/16/2786970/FRAND-smartphone-industry-apple-motorola-samsung

What will be the repercussions? No one is certain; but if found guilty, it is guaranteed there will be serious antitrust lawsuits. So as you can see, Samsung and Google are actually biding their time with these lawsuits since the legal process moves so slowly relative to technology.

 

[threed61]

You are wrong. The bulk of Motorola, Samsung, and Nokia's patent portfolio are useless FRAND patents. These are industry standard patents that MUST be licensed at a reasonable rate.

Samsung and Google are abusing their FRAND portfolios and are under probes from a number of governments. (As a non industry no worker, you probably don't realize how horrified and angry other companies are at Samsung or Google for using FRAND in litigation.)

Read here for more info:
FTC reportedly investigating Google over Motorola's use of FRAND patents | The Verge
FOSS Patents: Google/Motorola reportedly being investigated by the FTC for suspected FRAND abuse
FRANDs forever: how the smartphone industry turned a gentlemen's agreement into a full-scale patent war | The Verge

What will be the repercussions? No one is certain; but if found guilty, it is guaranteed there will be serious antitrust lawsuits. So as you can see, Samsung and Google are actually biding their time with these lawsuits since the legal process moves so slowly relative to technology.

Motorola and Nokia have created, not innovated, more mobile tech and software than Apple could ever dream of. Anti-trust laws don't apply companies who try to gouge with frand patents. They apply to companies who engage in anti-competitive and monopolistic behavior. Like say a company that controls 90% on the high end personal computer and music player market, 70% of the tablet market and is trying to force competitors out of the smartphone market. Oh yah, and makes price fixing arrangements with book publishers. That would be the company who should worry about anti-trust lawsuits.

 

[danialgoodwin]

Here's something I wrote on Google Plus and Facebook:

So, Apple recently won a patent lawsuit against Samsung because Samsung's tablets are the same as Apple's iPads..

Let me say that again in bold letters: Apple has proved successfully in court that there is no distinct difference between their product and Samsung's product.

What does that mean for you, the consumer? You can get the same products from Samsung for half the price...

This decision does not significantly affect Windows. Windows will need to do more of their innovations in order to stand out.

And, by the time this appeal is over, pretty much all Androids will already have the new sue-proof OS's and manufactures will have their lawyer designed phones.

 

[threed61]

Apologies to Danny for getting a little off the thread subject.

 

[hoovermac]

Not a patent attorney, but have had experience as an expert witness. These cases can drag on for years, and it's likely this one will, as both sides have deep pockets. It will be interesting to see how it affects the vendors, and it (hopefully) should make non-android OS's more attractive! Time will tell with the impending launch of major new platform updates.

 

[HeyCori]

Apple’s victory boosts Microsoft as Asian vendors scramble