was the apple win good for wp? I think yes

[suvastallions]

As Snowmutt says, the appeals process will take time.The court's decision does not result in an immediate cessation of sales of Samsung androids phones or suddently make the OEMs contemplate running to MS. I've read a lot of news features, opinion pieces and blogs coming out in the aftermath of the verdict and the majority agree that Samsung has a strong case for appeal.

Samsung still has the biggest market share for smartphones, and not matter what happens in the courts or what dumb jurors are doing, phones are still being made, shipped and sold.

For WP I would prefer that the OS wins for what it is - an excellent OS, rather than scavange the scraps from the Apple vs Samsung wars.

 

[suvastallions]

Let's be realistic. Samsung, HTC, and Nokia are not innovators. As hyped up Apple's reputation may be, a company like Samsung being in the same sentence as "innovation" makes me laugh.

This is true if you live on Mars.

 

[GoodThings2Life]

FTC reportedly investigating Google over Motorola's use of FRAND patents | The Verge
FOSS Patents: Google/Motorola reportedly being investigated by the FTC for suspected FRAND abuse
FRANDs forever: how the smartphone industry turned a gentlemen's agreement into a full-scale patent war | The Verge

I'm sorry, did you really just cite "The Verge" as a legitimate news source?

And I don't know anything about FOSS Patents as a source, but I have to assume by the name that it's a open-source biased site.

Look, I'm not trying to shoot your ideas down... you actually have valid points, so don't do yourself a disservice by quoting The Verge.

 

[fatclue_98]

No one is more lawsuit concise that MS. My point being that when OEMs look at where to go in the future weighing the choices between WP and Android I would think this makes WP look more attractive. Android is a free/ was a free OS to use in devices but OEMs are now having to pay to use it with ZERO legal supprot from Google. When I say zero I mean google doesn't support the OEMs in there legal battles with cash. Microsoft charges for its OS and as the provider of the OS is responsible for making sure that all contained in the OS is it own intellectual property. MS will be the one getting sewed not the OEMs. Put those together I would think the OEM would rather pay an up front charge on the OS (they are going to pay anyways it seams) and get the backing of MS. Microsoft must first put out an OS that proves popular and sales phones.

Do you really think the average consumer knows or even cares about lawsuits, intellectual property rights or any of that? If MS wants to be the Mac Daddy again in the smartphone arena, it needs to put out a product that resonates with users. They need a real marketing team to advertise but above all else, they need a gimmick. I don't mean a 2-for-1 sale gimmick, I mean an app or feature that no one has or has done well. Right now, my gut tells me they have to push WP8 & Windows 8 integration and milk it til' it moos. OTA syncing between all your devices would be huge since you wouldn't have to fiddle around with USB cables and such. Fire up your phone or Surface and the same information is already there. Whaddaya think?

 

[gregoron]

Apple = innovative is baloney. Jobs just knew how to sell something as complicated as a PC or mobile phone to the masses and sold them well he did. Then they patented a lot of that "innovative" features because tech geeks like MSFT, Motorola, and Blackberry were thinking these are basic stuff that they tech inclined consumers took for granted. They missed out on the marketing hype that Apple scored on with the iPhone when it allowed just about anyone can finally operate a smartphone. But, what did Apple really bring to the table other than a marketing platform to make smartphones more accessible to the public. If there's innovation in Apple, it's their patent lawyers who brought it.

 

[dtristan111]

News after the court decision:
- Samsung shares drop $12 billion(!), that is 7.5%
- Nokia shares jumped for 10% !

Nokia jumps on hopes it can cash in on Samsung setback | Reuters

Samsung shares drop $12 billion after Apple's court victory | Reuters

About Google having only FRAND patents, I think that is simply untrue. There are 2 lawsuits Motorola vs. Apple in which 11 patents are mentioned. In the first lawsuit Moto used 4 patents and 3 were cleared and 1 is still not. The new lawsuit of 7 patents is still unclear.

ITC remands decision on Motorola vs Apple to judge
ITC clears Apple of infringement of three Motorola patents, holds decision on fourth - Apple Business - Macworld UK

Well if Moto, Google and Samsung (with appeal on this decision) loose then I'm quite sure Android will be shelved by 2014-15. Remember Microsoft is making money of it (Android is actually more expensive for phone manufacturers then Windows Phone license!), there is still Oracle trying to make money out of it (check link below). Meanwhile Google has its Chrome OS, Samsung is involved in Tizen with Intel and if things go bad for Android I think one of those OS-es will replace it. Google was simply naive with Android, I think that they won't make the same mistake with a new OS.

Oracle and Google meet again to discuss rangeCheck code | ZDNet

EDIT:
Some info about the new lawsuit Moto vs. Apple:
http://www.theverge.com/2012/8/17/3...patent-case-against-apple-with-itc/in/2572477

 

[X0LARIUM]

Google replies:

Google's Response to Apple Patent Massacre: Don't Freak Out, Guys

thought this will help.

 

[GoodThings2Life]

News after the court decision:
- Samsung shares drop $12 billion(!), that is 7.5%
- Nokia shares jumped for 10% !

...

Google was simply naive with Android, I think that they won't make the same mistake with a new OS.

Heh, well the changes is stock shares would suggest how the investors feel about the matter. Unfortunately, overall market standings are far too volatile for any long-term predictions.

However, if it really comes down to it that Android falls apart, I don't think that OEMs will be quick to embrace Google going forward... whether it's Chrome OS or something else. "Fool me once, shame on you, but fool me twice, shame on me" and what-not.

 

[MrBurrrns]

Apple = innovative is baloney. Jobs just knew how to sell something as complicated as a PC or mobile phone to the masses and sold them well he did. Then they patented a lot of that "innovative" features because tech geeks like MSFT, Motorola, and Blackberry were thinking these are basic stuff that they tech inclined consumers took for granted. They missed out on the marketing hype that Apple scored on with the iPhone when it allowed just about anyone can finally operate a smartphone. But, what did Apple really bring to the table other than a marketing platform to make smartphones more accessible to the public. If there's innovation in Apple, it's their patent lawyers who brought it.

You are just trolling if you are suggesting that the the iPhone and the iPad were not industry revolutions. They completely changed the market and they did it over and over again. They might not cure cancer but innovative they are.

 

[GoodThings2Life]

You are just trolling if you are suggesting that the the iPhone and the iPad were not industry revolutions. They completely changed the market and they did it over and over again. They might not cure cancer but innovative they are.

Agreed, and yes, that's coming from a guy who HATES Apple and their products. I have a lot of reasons for why I loathe them so much, but I can't deny the impact they've had in moving technology forward.

 

[Dave Blake]

You are just trolling if you are suggesting that the the iPhone and the iPad were not industry revolutions. They completely changed the market and they did it over and over again. They might not cure cancer but innovative they are.

Why can't the man speak his mind without you calling him a troll. If you have evidence to the contrary please post it up. We can debate the points in a civil manned without the name calling.

 

[MrBurrrns]

Why can't the man speak his mind without you calling him a troll. If you have evidence to the contrary please post it up. We can debate the points in a civil manned without the name calling.

I think we only need to look at the latest Apple vs Samsung trial if we need some supporting evidence.

Regardless, we are all reasonable adults here. Let's not get down to the level of ignorance by downplaying the importance of Apple. For heaven's sake, there would be no Windows Phone 7 if it wasn't for iOS and Apple. They have revolutionized the smartphone market and I don't think anybody in their right mind can deny that.

 

[Dave Blake]

Let's not get down to the level of ignorance by downplaying the importance of Apple.

Why does this need to be part of what is otherwise an intelligent and helpfully post?

 

[MrBurrrns]

Why does this need to be part of what is otherwise an intelligent and helpfully post?

I don't understand. I pointed out the fact, that Apple has been the absolutely decisive part in the smartphone revolution. They created the modern smartphone as we know it today. They are a part of the phone industry history just as much as Windows Mobile or Nokia.

It helps nobody if we allow hate and ignorance - and that is exactly what the first post I reacted to propagated. To allow to hate on Apple, to take away from their contribution is just blind ignorance.

If we want to have a healthy discussion we need to respect the facts. Blind fanboyism doesn't help anybody. You might think my posts are ignorant - they are not, they are provoked by ignorance. I am from Europe, so I might not be so great with the politically correct. But I very much do respect an opinion - if it comes from an honest and profound place. The truth might hurt, but it's never wrong.

Let's not be a bunch of puppies.

 

[Dave Blake]

I don't understand. I pointed out the fact, that Apple has been the absolutely decisive part in the smartphone revolution. They created the modern smartphone as we know it today. They are a part of the phone industry history just as much as Windows Mobile or Nokia.

It helps nobody if we allow hate and ignorance - and that is exactly what the first post I reacted to propagated. To allow to hate on Apple, to take away from their contribution is just blind ignorance.

If we want to have a healthy discussion we need to respect the facts. Blind fanboyism doesn't help anybody. You might think my posts are ignorant - they are not, they are provoked by ignorance. I am from Europe, so I might not be so great with the politically correct. But I very much do respect an opinion - if it comes from an honest and profound place. The truth might hurt, but it's never wrong.

Let's not be a bunch of puppies.

You are correct you just don't understand. Please do not try to bypass the curse filter it is against forum rules.

 

[MrBurrrns]

And to post something on topic: I don't think the Apple win is good for WP. Even Stephen Elop said that this is a war of ecosystems. And this does nothing to improve the ecosystem of WP.

More so, Apple and Microsoft might have cross licensing agreements in place and play nice right now, but should the day ever come where WP is a danger to iOS you can be damn sure they certainly will explore every options they have to fight it. Litigation will be one of them and with their patents and cases bolstered by trials like this it will only make it harder for Microsoft to fight them. So no, a stronger Apple will do no good for Microsoft.

 

[Reflexx]

It helps that MS and Nokia are BFFs.

Nokia's patent portfolio is powerful. MS's isn't too shabby either. Especially when it comes to computing in general. And we all know that the line between mobile phones and full computers is blurring.

I really don't think Apple would want to pick that fight.

 

[palandri]

I don't understand. I pointed out the fact, that Apple has been the absolutely decisive part in the smartphone revolution. They created the modern smartphone as we know it today...

Here's the 1st problem. Your statement is subjective. That's your opinion. If you ask me, I would point out Palm as being, "the absolutely decisive part in the smartphone revolution", but I am not going to waste my time by getting into a pissing contest with you on it.

...It helps nobody if we allow hate and ignorance - and that is exactly what the first post I reacted to propagated. To allow to hate on Apple, to take away from their contribution is just blind ignorance.

If we want to have a healthy discussion we need to respect the facts. Blind fanboyism doesn't help anybody. You might think my posts are ignorant - they are not, they are provoked by ignorance. I am from Europe, so I might not be so great with the politically correct. But I very much do respect an opinion - if it comes from an honest and profound place. The truth might hurt, but it's never wrong.

Let's not be a bunch of puppies.

Here's the 2nd problem, this is how you want the forum ran. Your opinion on, "hate, ignorance and fanboyism" is once again subjective. You want the forum ran on the rules according to MrBurrrns. It's this simple, it's not your forum or your rules.

 

[mprice86]

Until a few months ago I wouldn't have cared either way who "won" this case; I put it in quotes to illustrate that there really is no winner in a case like this. It makes Samsung look stupid and it makes Apple look like a tantrum throwing child... but I digress.

I didn't care either way until I actually read some of the stuff that Apple had patented, like a rectangular phone with equally rounded edges on all corners and straight edges. Bezels of equal height at the top and bottom of the screen, with a centrally placed "home" button.

I don't like Samsung any more than I did before (which was not at all), but idiotic patents like that have really lowered my opinion of Apple, which is impressive because I already had nothing but contempt for them.

What they've done is patent the design for the front of 90% of smartphones and all they have to do is wait for a phone that looks similar to get popular and then slap the manufacturer with a lawsuit.

This case, and anything else like it should have been laughed out of court. By all means, patent an original idea, a new function; but don't take out a patent on something just because no one else has. It might be good business, but it makes your company look like a bunch of ****s.

EDIT:

To actually make a point about the OP, no, I don't think it was good for Microsoft, or the technology industry as a whole. Cases like this set a dangerous precedent and I expect that we'll see a lot more cases like this in future.

I don't know how well protected Microsoft are, I would have to assume reasonably well, but unless they're willing to lower themselves to the same level that Apple are fighting at then they haven't a hope of winning. All it's going to take is Apple getting a patent on something like launching an OS or other software from a mechanical or non-mechanical storage device and that's the ball game.

 

[Gungzwei]

Apple, Google, Microsoft, Nokia, etc. have all been important players in the smartphone arena. They all have built off of the same ideas, so the court cases seem a lot like dogs marking the same fire hydrant.

I think the real issue is that the Patent office will issue a patent for ANYTHING. Then let companies battle it out in court. You could submit a patent for round rubber things that allow an automobile to roll smoothly over the ground and probably get issued a patent.

Groklaw.net does an amazing job of going through technology related court cases and boiling it down to what it means.
I started following them when SCO sued IBM for $3 billion because "SCO owned UNIX"