What Are Your Thoughts On Windows 10 Mobile VS 8.1?

[a5cent]

I have the 640 on the latest non insider update and I see no lag. What should I do to make my phone lag not including using poorly programmed apps? I am asking that cause I do not see your point even thought my phone is low end.

I don't know. It seems to me that reports vary widely. Some people claim to be having no issues at all, but I've never seen an older low end device run W10M well.

Just to be clear, I don't see any lag. What I do see is micro jitter all over the place, as if it's regularly skipping a frame, which I never saw on WP7 or WP8 (yes, I'm pretty sensitive to this sort of thing). It's anything but smooth. Battery life (which is the primary indicator of efficiency) is also quite a bit worse than it was with WP8.

I just installed the anniversary edition an hour ago and did a hard reset without restoring from backup. I haven't really looked at it yet, but just by scrolling the start screen I can already see screen tearing. Never had this on WP7 or WP8 either.

Even if all of that were perfect, the real issue I have with W10M is related to individuality and innovation. I was with WP because it was different and I liked the ways in which it was different. W10M is no longer different, or it's different only in superficial ways. That's the bigger issue for me personally.

 

[tgp]

Again no. I collected a lot of empirical data on this a few years back when smartphone hardware performance mattered a lot more than it does now. Android was demonstrably and notably less efficient than WP7 (and always will be).

OK, we're differing on technicalities. You of course are technically correct, and you know way more than I do due to your background and training. You need to remember that you look at these things differently than a lot of us do! :smile:

I'm talking about efficiency as what is apparent on the outside, not on what is happening on the inside. If something isn't working well, the average user couldn't care less why. They just want it fixed. What I meant was that WP7 did run great, but if you would have added the components of WP8/WP8.1/W10M to WP7 (probably technically impossible), would it have still run great? I have no idea what goes on "under the hood", but it ran great but did little. W10M does a lot, but runs poorly except on the highest specced hardware.

The matter of efficiency is always relative. Compared to WP7 Android remains terribly inefficient, and always will be. None of my fly-by-the-seat-of-my-pants comparisons would lead me to believe Android is any less efficient than W10M. Quite the opposite actually.

It's not a completely accurate analogy, but I now think of W10M being in the same position as Android was back in 2008... being adapted from a OS that was originally designed for a completely different kind of device, and with Microsoft having a long road of" required efficiency improvements" ahead.

Would W10M run like WP7 did if you took out the added components? I've said before that in the last several years, Android and WP/W10M have switched positions. It seemed Google was throwing features at Android which made it very capable, but heavy and buggy. That's where we are now with W10M. Microsoft certainly has "a long road of" required efficiency improvements" ahead" with WM, which is what Google has done with Android in the last several years.

 

[a5cent]

What I meant was that WP7 did run great, but if you would have added the components of WP8/WP8.1/W10M to WP7 (probably technically impossible), would it have still run great?

Yes. But only if the components you're referring to aren't part of the OS. Note that apps like Mail, Groove, Skype etc. aren't part of the OS. They are just apps that are bundled and shipped along side the OS. Almost every user-facing feature is presented to the user via one of those apps. Even access to the OS settings is provided through an app. You can switch those apps out all day long with whatever you want without impacting overall OS efficiency in any way.

Would W10M run like WP7 did if you took out the added components?

No. At least not if what you're referring to with "components" are user-facing features/functions. As mentioned above, almost all user-facing functionality is presented to the user via apps. If you were to remove all the W10M apps from the OS and replace them with the less functional versions from the WP7 days (not technically possible so view it as a thought experiment), then W10M would perform no better than it does now.

In the software stack the OS resides below the apps, and in these lower level OS layers MS hasn't added so much to it, as they have just continually replaced it with versions that are ever more similar (with W10M now largely identical) to those employed by their desktop/server OS.

For example, the basic foundation on which all version of W10 are now built is called OneCore. OneCore is very flexible in the sense that it can interface with a huge array of hardware in all kinds of devices. It provides very general purpose solutions to power management, security, networking, cryptography, storage etc. This generalized approach has advantages, but it also has disadvantages, one of which being that it can never be as efficient as a solution designed specifically for a much more narrowly defined set of requirements and hardware configurations. It's simply a fact of software engineering that flexibility must always be bought at the expense of efficiency. That's where most of the efficiency differences between WP7, WP8 and W10M come from.

I've said before that in the last several years, Android and WP/W10M have switched positions. It seemed Google was throwing features at Android which made it very capable, but heavy and buggy. That's where we are now with W10M. Microsoft certainly has "a long road of" required efficiency improvements" ahead" with WM, which is what Google has done with Android in the last several years.

This is how I perceive the situation as well.

 

[EspHack]

I don't know. It seems to me that reports vary widely. Some people claim to be having no issues at all, but I've never seen an older low end device run W10M well.

Just to be clear, I don't see any lag. What I do see is micro jitter all over the place, as if it's regularly skipping a frame, which I never saw on WP7 or WP8 (yes, I'm pretty sensitive to this sort of thing). It's anything but smooth. Battery life (which is the primary indicator of efficiency) is also quite a bit worse than it was with WP8.

I just installed the anniversary edition an hour ago and did a hard reset without restoring from backup. I haven't really looked at it yet, but just by scrolling the start screen I can already see screen tearing. Never had this on WP7 or WP8 either.

Even if all of that were perfect, the real issue I have with W10M is related to individuality and innovation. I was with WP because it was different and I liked the ways in which it was different. W10M is no longer different, or it's different only in superficial ways. That's the bigger issue for me personally.

yep, its like they disabled VSYNC lol

btw after AU update I feel the OS is more finished now, I can finally start looking at future possibilities instead of being completely clouded by the inconvenience that was trying to use w10m daily, so there's that, maybe RS2 is the turning point

 

[a5cent]

yep, its like they disabled VSYNC lol

btw after AU update I feel the OS is more finished now, I can finally start looking at future possibilities instead of being completely clouded by the inconvenience that was trying to use w10m daily, so there's that, maybe RS2 is the turning point

You may be right. I still haven't gotten around to using it that much, but so far no crashes at least. So far so good

 

[NatKingColeslaw]

For every person who is unwilling to admit that some users have had issues after updating to Windows 10, there is certainly a person who seems oblivious to the fact that a great many people truly, honestly think Windows 10 is an improvement. I had a Lumia 822 and 928, and my meager 640 on Windows 10 runs circles around them. I find it more powerful, and yes, more efficient. It is my honest opinion, I am not a naive simpleton for thinking so.

 

[Guytronic]

In simple terms:
Windows phone 8.1 could've been a contender.
Personally I loved it.
When 10 got shoved down our throats I thought "Oh ok this will be better...Microsoft knows best".
I get depressed when I use my poor, sad and abandoned 925 that I still love.

Maybe I should just bury it out behind the garage while the moon shines bright :\

 

[TechFreak1]

For me personally, W10M is better overall, but at the same time (with its androidesque UI and shedding of all WP specific innovations) it's lost everything that initially drew me to WP7 and WP8. IMHO the improvements in W10M do manage to make up for its disadvantages in comparison to WP8.1 (although barely), but for me personally, W10M no longer makes up for the disadvantages it has over iOS or Android.

What people actually want is a W10M that is an improvement over WP8.1 in every way, rather than just in some ways, in particular:

• metro had some issues, but rather than throwing out all of the metro design principles, I would have liked to see MS improve upon and add to them.
• regain the fluid smoothness WP once exhibited (even on low end WP7 hardware)
• be more efficient rather than slower
• be more stable rather than frequently unreliable
• keep pushing UI and mobile innovation rather than becoming an androidesque clone.

Alas that's not going to happen, but I think that's what people actually wanted.

This. ^^^^

What we actually got was W10M.

What we actually got is a rancid tasting cocktail of a mojito designed by numbers via a committee who never have tasted a mojito before :grincry:. I could point so many things wrong with the UX but I won't as I'd end up writing a novel.

 

[Gerade_Kurve]

In my opinion Windows 10 offers a lot more options for the future with the Universal Windows Platform but as always: new features come with new bugs. WP 8.1 was an OS which has existed and been bug fixed long before I joined the smartphone World (which was 2014). Another negative point with Win 10M is that some features are missing which I used in WP 8.1 (looking at you Cortana) but I hope for MS to listen to the feedback and bring back these features.

 

[colinkiama]

I finally understand why this update is opt and not over the air for 8.1 devices. This feels like a completely different OS in so many ways.

I love all the new features but it just never feels smooth and polished. There's always something off. Even as I'm typing with the keyboard, it feels slower than it would be in 8.1. I feel like Th2 was really W10 Mobile 1.0 and the anniversary update was W10 Mobile 2.0. Things can only get better to be honest. It'll be interesting to see how the OS will look when it reaches 8.1's level of polish and easily.

The name change is really important. This is not Windows Phone like we remember it.

 

[Pierre Blackwell]

Like some of stated already, it is a matter of staying in the past or moving forward. With Windows phone 8.1 you had unique features that separated Windows phone from iOS or Android. Unfortunately is also kept it separated from it's Windows counterparts on PC's, Tablets, and Xbox. If MSFT didn't have their hands in other aspects of the Windows ecosystem then it would make sense for them to stay where they were with Windows phone. I agree, there are aspects of Windows phone I miss, but when it comes to integration and functionality, Windows 10 is only scratching the surface and it is already a more full functioning system. Updates are more frequent. UWP apps are a game changer with continuum. The reality is this...most iPhone owners don't own other apple products. I have a guy I work with who owns an Xbox, a Surface 3 and an iphone. He told me that he uses MSFT Office, One drive, and skype because of his family overseas, and has recently been interested with trying a Windows mobile device simply because of the integration he sees from my 950XL. That is the carrot the MSFT is using. Not the mobile device itself, but the comfort of transparent functionality between all MSFT devices. He recently tried Groove and loves it because it's compatible on his Xbox One. If you only wanted a Windows mobile device, I can see how someone would prefer Windows phone, however I love where Windows 10 mobile is at right now with updates being sent for both mobile and desktop simultaneously, you can only expect things to get better. Especially when MSFT turns their focus to mobile.

 

[EspHack]

I finally understand why this update is opt and not over the air for 8.1 devices. This feels like a completely different OS in so many ways.

I love all the new features but it just never feels smooth and polished. There's always something off. Even as I'm typing with the keyboard, it feels slower than it would be in 8.1. I feel like Th2 was really W10 Mobile 1.0 and the anniversary update was W10 Mobile 2.0. Things can only get better to be honest. It'll be interesting to see how the OS will look when it reaches 8.1's level of polish and easily.

The name change is really important. This is not Windows Phone like we remember it.

thats the thing, they made it clear they are no longer pursuing form over function(wp) and are now focused on productivity and functionality instead of looks, they reached the conclusion that looks offered no real value, hence we got hamburgers and such things

you may think they will some day give it some polish after a lot of work and features, but, they may simply keep adding features for the sake of it, until people start complaining and they do their own project butter or something, its a non ending cycle of priority A vs priority B coming to attention from time to time