• The Off Topic Lounge can at times become a heated place where sensitive subjects are often discussed. While some moderation leniency is practiced in this forum, we ask that you pay special attention to the following, as set out in our community guidelines:

    Be polite. Keep your language clean and appropriate. Refrain from personal attacks or insults to other members. Constructive discussions, debates and free speech are encouraged in the forums. However, it is not constructive to criticize or insult another member because their opinion differs from yours. Discrimination or harassment is not tolerated. Be courteous to other forum members regardless of their race, age, nationality, country of residence, ethnic origin, sex, sexual orientation, political views or religious beliefs.
  • Welcome to the all-new Windows Central Forums! - We're still moving some things around, so you may see a few quirks here and there, but we're working on getting things fully completed as soon as possible. For now, take a look around, and if you run into any major issues, please let us know in this thread!

What Was Missing?

Keith Wallace

New member
Nov 8, 2012
3,179
0
0
From the first hands-on reviews I've read, the 2520 is much more impressive than the gigantic 1320 with low-end specs. It's much more massive than the 1520 with much better hardware in it.

However I agree, a high-end smartphone with a smaller screen would be desirable. But maybe it's just too soon after the 925 for Nokia.

The 2520's build seems good, but I still have no respect for ARM tablets. If this was a Bay Trail device, I'd feel differently, but this is another RT device lacking loads of software support from x86 Windows. With the current state of the Windows Store, the x86 software is the only strong leg-up Windows tablets can have against iOS and Android. $500 as the starting price is a disappointment as well, especially since we're AGAIN talking about a pre-keyboard pricing. It's tough to be impressed at the thought of $650 when that ASUS T100 is $350+ with the dock included, and even the Surface 2 is $580 with the Type Cover (I know that the 2520's cover is a power one, but meh).

As for the 1320, I think that it's a good idea. It's a mid-range device, but it allows those who don't have $750 to throw down to get in on the big-screen trend, so it's a decent example of Nokia's willingness and ability to hit a plethora of form factors and price points.

I also cannot think for a second that the 925 is too soon. It STILL runs on that Galaxy S III chip. It basically launched with year-old hardware inside, and it's in dire need of a refresh. The sad part is that if I was up for an upgrade right now (got my 920 last November though), I'd probably be avoiding ANY device for a while. None of what has been announced is for the regular consumer, and the current 92x devices are running what is likely a lesser SoC (MSM8960) than the Snapdragon 400 found in the "low-end" 1320.
 

Keith Wallace

New member
Nov 8, 2012
3,179
0
0
I was hoping to see the 525. Not that I want one, but as the 520 is the most popular WP in the world and pretty much unbeatable for the price, I was intrigued to know what improvements/upgrades they were going to do with it.

I would have also liked to see a new 4.0-4.5" phone. As it stands 920 owners who are looking to upgrade can go to a 925 or 1020, otherwise it's a 6" phone. However like me who will upgrade sometime next year, if they don't bring a new 4.0-4.5" out in the next 6 months or so, yes the 925 and 1020 are great phones but will some people see them as 'old'. I can see me getting a 1020 next year and I'd be more than happy with that, but some people like to have a 'new' phone when they upgrade.

I'm not sure with the Black update. I believe, if you want GDR3 now, then get it through the dev program through Microsoft, which I did. Otherwise, wait until Black, which I presume is GDR3+Nokia's new features/apps. 8.1 is not Black as I far as I understand it.

I think overall though, they shown off some very nice phones and I am genuinely impressed with the 1520.

Truth be told, the 920-1020 devices were all old the day they launched. Their specs (except for the cameras, of course) all match up almost identically with the Galaxy S III, which was launched in May 2012. They're definitely old NOW, considering the plethora of Snapdragon 600 and 800 devices roaming around now with Android on-board. It would be tough to convince someone to upgrade to a device running hardware that's 18 months old when you're talking about a 2-year commitment.
 

Keith Wallace

New member
Nov 8, 2012
3,179
0
0
Imo this is exactly where Nokia should go. Not banging its head to US market, but rather concentrate to its core markets where it actually sells its phones, and always has.

Though naturally I can understand some here being gutted about no ~4-inch device. This does also highlight the importance of Lumia 1020. It will be Nokia's smaller screened device for a while as 1080 screens are geared towards 5-6-inch devices.

Thing is, they didn't do that. If the DID, then we would have seen a 525, or whatever you'd call the 520 successor. The 1520 is certainly not aimed at emerging market,s and when we're talking about the popularity of the low-cost 520, it's questionable how popular the 1320 will be in the Mexico, India, and China markets, considering it's more than twice the price of the 520 ($330 vs. $150). On top of that, Windows Phones have sold rather well in several European markets, where you'd see a solid number of devices in the 920-1020 range sell well. Those markets would be well-served to get a successor to the 920/925/928, or AT LEAST that 5-inch 929. A 4.5" 930 would have made a lot of sense.
 

Keith Wallace

New member
Nov 8, 2012
3,179
0
0
Nokia is not apple. We shouldn't expect an arbitrary spec upgrade on the year. Honestly, I think its fine to wait a little longer to refresh to x30 series... The processing power built into the current generation runs every app I've thrown at it without any issue.

Problem is, while my 920 will run things, it also gets hot on something as simple as Tetris Blitz! or NBA Jam. They need improved hardware for better battery life as well, because if I was to estimate it, I'd say that the battery life on Tetris Blitz! would be about 3 hours, and that might be optimistic. You can say that they are not Apple, but you're pretty much kidding yourself there. It's only logical to see annual hardware refreshes. You see it with the new Intel Haswell processors inside loads of new laptops and desktops. You see it in the Bay Trail-based Atom devices like the ASUS T100. You just saw the annual refreshes of the Surface and Surface Pro. You get it with Android, where we saw the Galaxy S4 and Galaxy Note 3 launch. You see it with Apple's iPhone 5S, and you'll see it here shortly with the new iPad releases.

On top of that, we're talking about replacing hardware that was bordering on old when it was new. The guts in the 920-1020 devices wasn't cutting-edge when it released (hence why there was a bit-better 920T released in China). The chip is around 18 months old because Nokia does a fall release, while Samsung releases stuff with the same parts in the spring, meaning stuff is dated upon arrival (though not badly). From what we've seen SO FAR, Windows Phone stuff is a fall affair, and you simply CANNOT expect to wait until next fall for a refresh. Maybe they go the Lumia 900 route and launch in the spring, but that means a wait of about 18 months for a refresh, which is a long time to wait with technology.
 

zinksilver

New member
Jul 13, 2013
34
0
0
Truth be told, the 920-1020 devices were all old the day they launched...

What about the iPhone 5? It was old the day it launched, if we judge it from what you just said (?).
What I mean is, no, they were not "all old the day they launched". My Lumia 925 runs anything I throw at it, doesn't get hot at all (just a bit in Halo SA) and the battery life has been perfect for me (with moderate to heavy usage).

Also, you say they "were old when launched" but you're only referring to specs, I guess? I've seen Galaxy S4s (and etc) lag a lot with no apparent apps running in background and they had Snapdragon 800s - so, at the end of the day, what device is already old when it launches?
  1. The one that has a dual-core CPU but runs anything smoothly and there's no lag + some real innovations, like the Clearblack + gloves sensible, Glance screen, the Pureview optics, etc.
  2. The one with octa-dual-corium 2000 that lags + just some software gimmicks and an OS that becomes a mess (OEMs) + device is refreshed 3 times in a year and you stop getting updates for your just bought ex-flagship.

*Imho*, the Lumia 920 and the Lumia 925 are not old, not yet (in terms of functionality and even specs; I just wish people would stop the spec war! Warning: I don't want to offend you neither I want to star a 'fight' here)
I have the 925 and it feels beast, premium, innovative and fresh. It not also feels, it is.

ps:
Originally Posted by jmshub
Nokia is not apple. We shouldn't expect an arbitrary spec upgrade on the year. Honestly, I think its fine to wait a little longer to refresh to x30 series... The processing power built into the current generation runs every app I've thrown at it without any issue.
^this

AND

On top of that, we're talking about replacing hardware that was bordering on old when it was new
Isn't that exaggerating a bit? o-o
 
Last edited:

Keith Wallace

New member
Nov 8, 2012
3,179
0
0
What about the iPhone 5? It was old the day it launched, if we judge it from what you just said (?).
What I mean is, no, they were not "all old the day they launched". My Lumia 925 runs anything I throw at it, doesn't get hot at all (just a bit in Halo SA) and the battery life has been perfect for me (with moderate to heavy usage).

Also, you say they "were old when launched" but you're only referring to specs, I guess? I've seen Galaxy S4s (and etc) lag a lot with no apparent apps running in background and they had Snapdragon 800s - so, at the end of the day, what device is already old when it launches?
  1. The one that has a dual-core CPU but runs anything smoothly and there's no lag + some real innovations, like the Clearblack + gloves sensible, Glance screen, the Pureview optics, etc.
  2. The one with octa-dual-corium 2000 that lags + just some software gimmicks and an OS that becomes a mess (OEMs) + device is refreshed 3 times in a year and you stop getting updates for your just bought ex-flagship.

*Imho*, the Lumia 920 and the Lumia 925 are not old, not yet. I have the 925 and it feels beast, premium, innovative and fresh. It not also feels, it is.

No, we're talking about a totally-different story with Apple. Their stuff doesn't run Qualcomm chips. They have custom chips with what are apparently substantial GPU advantages (I don't know any cross-platform benchmarks off-hand). The Lumias carry the SAME chip as the May-launched Galaxy S III, which is my point. You can talk about the lag in Android all you want, but that is a software matter. The hardware might run everything NOW, but in most cases, people are buying these devices on 2-yea contracts. Are you confident that the 925 will be running everything well in late-2015? I'm certainly not.

What's funny is how you continue to use Android's software to defend the idea of not updated the hardware now. You'd have a point if it was an either-or option here,l but as the 1520 shows us, both is 100% possible. We're not tlaking about a Snapdragon 600 with android OR a 920 with a Snapdragon S4, we're talking about NOT upgrading the phones to the Snapdragon 600/800 line by choice. The chips are there for the devices, so--again--we're not talking about an OS comparison.

As for that silly "^this" comment, I put that theory to rest immediately. Like I said, annual updates and annual upgrades are not an Apple thing. It happens with Intel (Ivy Bridge to Hawell and Clover Trail to Bay Trail), Qualcomm (Snapdragon S4 to Snapdragon 600/800), Nvidia (Tegra 3 to Tegra 4), Microsoft (Windows 8/RT to Windows 8.1/RT 8.1 and Surface/Surface Pro to Surface 2/Surface Pro 2), Lenovo (Yoga to Yoga 2), AMD (Radeon 8000 to R7/R9), Samsung (Galaxy S III/Galaxy Note II to Galaxy S4/Galaxy Note 3), and the ENTIRE TECH INDUSTRY.

You can quote some Apple bashing and act like it's fact, but you'll simply be wrong. Annual refreshes are commonplace and expected with technology. You can also it's fine to wait for a refresh, but that's coming from a person locked into a 925 regardless. For someone looking to buy a new device in the next couple of months (or longer, we don't know), that's not the case. If I walked into an AT&T store today, I'd walk out without a device because I'm not locking myself into a 2-year contract with a device that runs hardware launched about 18 months ago, especially if you have to pay an on-contract price with it.
 

flattie

New member
Aug 10, 2013
44
0
0
I don't think we're likely to see a flagship refresh anytime before the MS acquisition. My rough guess would be that we'll see a 4-5" device launch with WP8.1, which itself will be post acquisition. Lumia 930 maybe? Still, the wait wouldn't bother me particularly; as others have said, while the guts of the 92x series may be a little dated, the performance is still generally stellar. I'll happily stick with my wonderful 925 for as long as it takes Nokia and MS to produce a suitable successor.

In the mean time, ill be looking forward to getting my mits on a cyan 2520.
 

zinksilver

New member
Jul 13, 2013
34
0
0
As for that silly "^this" comment, I put that theory to rest immediately.
Erm, with "^this" I just meant that I agree with that person's post. And I do have a point. :)
 

iAdrian23

New member
Apr 18, 2012
225
0
0
Too long didn't read ^

What was missing: Nothing. Why? Because they must prepare for the wave of 8.1. I want a new 1020, if they don't release something like it I will just buy it!
 

etad putta

New member
Oct 1, 2013
848
0
0
8.1 hasn't been announced even yet, just GDR3 last week, so why would they give any information about updates to an unannounced product?

Because that's how you get people to be excited about something. Maybe go the extra mile and give us something good that we weren't expecting.
 

Muessig

Moderator Team Leader
Sep 30, 2012
5,649
0
36
For me I'd love to have heard more information about the rumoured MP3 player!
 

khatta

New member
Nov 12, 2012
55
0
0
There was a lot missing. I am now baffled by the fact that apps and hardware is regularly announced by Nokia or MS and we usually don't see them for a few weeks or months. If for any, today's announcements by Apple were right on the spot what industry has achieved. Apple announced hardware and apps, and almost all of them are available Today !

Nokia and MS just lost momentum by not being able to deliver quickly to the market that is on the bleeding edge. MS moves way too slow and it rightly concerns the industry that MS continue to play catch up even after more than 5 years of iPhone launch, when Apple and Google are already innovating at a very fast rate.

Does Instagram and Flipboard really matter anymore ? Not really. The third party apps like 6Tag and Phonly have filled the spot very well and all the apps on the other platforms, that have been there for more than a year or two, are 'really' late to the MS platform. Aside from Apps, even the phone updates like GDR2,3 etc. has a huge gap between announcement and implementation. That is another big gap that MS continue to fail at.

MS has been tightly squeezed in a corner by both Google and Apple. MS keeps making the same mistakes again and again. Looking at how things are going, I wonder if MS switched to the self destruct mode recently. They continue to look like a company from 1980's who isn't willing to rise to the challenge. Today's consumer has a lots if options and MS keep giving them more options, in favor of its competitors. The Surface looks like a good product, but point of matter is, why consumers are still drawn to small icon based UI's and not Metro tiles based UI ?

MS is not that 'cool' company anymore that many now relate to with Apple and Google. Apple and Google are both making tons of money from the average consumer, when MS's big chunk of profit comes from enterprise.I guess that is where MS is focused, without realizing that they are also losing enterprise business !

This new item sums it up today: Tim Cook On Windows 8 And Surface - Business Insider
 

bradm77

New member
Oct 22, 2013
49
0
0
Sooo......... I guess if you're a 928 user like me on VZW who has been pining away for a nice big screen, the message from Nokia seems to be "GO BACK TO ANDROID" :unhappy:
 

Keith Wallace

New member
Nov 8, 2012
3,179
0
0
Too long didn't read ^

What was missing: Nothing. Why? Because they must prepare for the wave of 8.1. I want a new 1020, if they don't release something like it I will just buy it!

So you think that the entire smartphone market is made up of 6-inch devices and Asha? Because that's all that we got. As we see from the folks willing to get the newest devices each and every year, sitting on the 92x devices isn't enough.
 

Keith Wallace

New member
Nov 8, 2012
3,179
0
0
Erm, with "^this" I just meant that I agree with that person's post. And I do have a point. :)

Yeah, it means you agree with his point, and his point was that Microsoft isn't Apple, which is a bad comparison, because what he claims as "being Apple" is actually the norm in the tech industry (except with consoles, I guess). Annual upgrades and updates are not an "Apple" thing.
 

Keith Wallace

New member
Nov 8, 2012
3,179
0
0
I don't think we're likely to see a flagship refresh anytime before the MS acquisition. My rough guess would be that we'll see a 4-5" device launch with WP8.1, which itself will be post acquisition. Lumia 930 maybe? Still, the wait wouldn't bother me particularly; as others have said, while the guts of the 92x series may be a little dated, the performance is still generally stellar. I'll happily stick with my wonderful 925 for as long as it takes Nokia and MS to produce a suitable successor.

In the mean time, ill be looking forward to getting my mits on a cyan 2520.

See, I don't see any way that flies. The acquisition hasn't even been voted on, and won't be until next year. I'd imagine that the sale isn't completed until the summer or fall of 2014, and the idea that you're going to take an ecosystem that already lags behind and pair it with hardware that lacks behind screams "Blackberry" to me. despite improvements involving apps, you'd still be asking people to sign up for an ecosystem with legitimate software holes, and you'd ask them to sign up for 2 years of dated hardware as well.
 

bradm77

New member
Oct 22, 2013
49
0
0
The 929 is coming, we just don't know when.

Actually, we don't know WHEN, we don't know IF, and on top of that, we have no idea what screen size we might get IF the thing actually exists! On the other hand, The Note 3 is already out on VZW. How is Nokia supposed to compete when they lag months and months behind Android manufacturers on pretty much EVERYTHING?
 

Indistinguishable

Ambassador
Nov 16, 2012
4,668
0
0
Actually, we don't know WHEN, we don't know IF, and on top of that, we have no idea what screen size we might get IF the thing actually exists! On the other hand, The Note 3 is already out on VZW. How is Nokia supposed to compete when they lag months and months behind Android manufacturers on pretty much EVERYTHING?

We don't know when. Rubino said it'd have to wait until Q1 of 2014 just yesterday. We've seen the phone, we've even seen press images of it with Verizon branding. Its out there. We just don't know when it's coming. As far as we know - it could be March or April.
 

bradm77

New member
Oct 22, 2013
49
0
0
We don't know when. Rubino said it'd have to wait until Q1 of 2014 just yesterday. We've seen the phone, we've even seen press images of it with Verizon branding. Its out there. We just don't know when it's coming. As far as we know - it could be March or April.

Exactly. Months and Months behind Samsung, HTC, Moto, etc. So I can wait and wait and wait or I could go get a Note 3 TODAY. I really do love the WP experience. I have no regrets about ditching my Galaxy S3 for the 928, but the screen is just too darn small. I am locked into Verizon, so AT&T isn't an option. I guess I should blame myself for thinking that this huge "Event" was going to have something, ANYTHING, for us Verizon customers. :unhappysweat: