Yeah you are getting that deal because of us Lumia 900 owners are getting burnt.
Why Microsoft just made a huge mistake.
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Yeah you are getting that deal because of us Lumia 900 owners are getting burnt.
12Danny123
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Nope, why do you get that idea? I was merely expressing my opinion. Wasn't that true? As soon as MS decided to categorize the Lumia 900/800 as "legacy" device, the value drop to the point where everyone are getting the good deals. What do you think Lumia 900 owner would feel?
But it was my fault with that one line statement, it just seems like the more I wrote in my replies, the less reply I would get (search my name, and you'll see). So I'm going to give more insight on my opinion, and please provide your thought and input.
In a nut shell I agree WP8 is a necessary update for Microsoft. They've made several mistakes in my opinion, and I've expressed them across different topic here in WPCentral. I'll try to put them together. It'll be biased but my true opinion nonethelesss. I would think OP would agree with me.
On a business side:
We don't know how much Nokia knew about Microsoft abandoning the platform that sets the install base back to zero. If they didn't know, this is a mal-practice on the Microsoft side, and I feel sympathy for Nokia. Looking at MS' recent announcement and the related story such as Microsoft & HP, Acer's thought on the Surface, it's not hard to see the trend of Microsoft screwing (sorry I can't think of a better word) over their partners. One can argue it's necessary for Microsoft to survive, and it's rather common in the business world. I agree with both, they just need to be done more tastefully. Do you really want to mess with the partnership that got you here today? This is the aspect I see which you may not agree, but something I will definitely keep my eyes on. As exciting as all the announcement Microsoft has made so far this year underneath it I see a lot of potential problem lying ahead with Microsoft and their partners. Gradually Microsoft will have to make decision whether to continue their partnership with hardware manufacturers or stay like a lone wolf like Apple. Most consumers won't see it, but business analysts or market will soon start react to such behavior, and this will definitely affect the future development of WP.
On the hardware side:
My question is does Microsoft really has to pick this time to abandon the Windows CE kernel? Couldn't they just add the hardware support for the multicore CPU in the CE kernel? I can't honestly say Microsoft made the mistake as multicore CPUs is the trend and possibly the future. With Windows 8 supporting the ARM CPU it further reaffirm that Microsoft should probably also make Windows RT part of their Windows Phone platform. But why does Microsoft has to "abandon" current WP7.x device since it already has an ARM CPU? (besides the core difference) I'm guessing it's due to the fact that Microsoft wants to implement DirectX support in their new mobile platform strategy. As the current ARM CPU only support OpenGL ES, performance wise it would be illogical to translate from OpenGL ES to DirectX, so Microsoft may have Qualcomm build a custom ARM CPU that is able to execute the DirectX on the hardware level. (my speculation, we won't know until Surface is released and we see the CPU spec) This in return, hurts people like us who happened to be the "interim" adopters (although we didn't know we were "interim" until now). The mistake I'm trying to convey is that with Microsoft's WP platform playing the catch up game to the likes of iOS and Android, I don't think they want to change the kernel (why not do it when they made the decision for WM6.5), abandon the customer base they already have, separate the developers (more about it later), or even tried to piss off the OEM manufacturers. Microsoft is able to do it with their desktop OS because they have the most market share, but not when you trying to catch up. If you had observe Microsoft from the beginning you'll see Microsoft isn't shy when it comes to abandon the platform. This is different level of fragmentation. Amongst all these who is the biggest loser? Clearly Nokia and their customers. HTC and Samsung played the observation game when Nokia is out in the front fighting because HTC and Samsung know their smartphone games. Nokia clearly didn't have any clue and is getting hit for it. Let's not forget WP8 has only been announced. We don't really know when we will see the actual OS let along the actual product to be present on the market (I'm guessing Jan). That's 6+ months to go, in the mean time Nokia's market value has dropped to $25.54 billion, consumer and analyst started to see the problems with Nokia/Microsoft relationship, and with competition from iPhone 5, Samsung, and HTC, it's a wonder how Nokia will survive in all these.
Moving forward, had Microsoft chose not to abandon the platform but continued to add support for things such as low end CPU, memory management, etc, Nokia may have chance in climbing back up in the low end phone sectors. If Nokia falls victims to the MS' decision, MS will have no choice but to either purchase Nokia (don't forget MS spent $8 Billion on Skype, a software company) and continue the trend of pissing off other hardware manufacturers, OR do nothing about it and continue their observatory relationship with HTC and Samsung, and/or other potential partners. Microsoft's decision of abandoning the hardware too soon may not be the best interest right now.
Mistake on the developer side:
A lot has been talked about. WPCentral even invited their in-house developer to talk about the transition. Allow me to give my opinion as I also develop apps in my free time, and I currently have 2 simple apps in the Windows Phone Market to test the water. My partner and myself was looking into developing for the second platform besides iOS. I took the plunge and switch to the Lumia 900 for being a long time Nokia fans and WP interface.
The current market will continue to see the support for WP7.x apps, this much is true. The inclusion of DirectX and Havoc engine is also welcoming news as a developer and user as this ease up the cross platform development. However I doubt how much easier the production work would be using Managed C++ compare to C# + XNA. But like everyone said, you want your app to have the maximum exposure, which is true for most big companies as they have the resource to do it and they are looking to profit. For casual and new developer this is going to be a different story. The choice for the new/casual developers is simple. Do you want to develop for the new and exciting platform or do you want to develop for the old and dated platform? It's a no brainer if you already have apps in the market place, but when you start a new project that you need to spend time shaping up your C++ skill and looking at compatibile APIs for Windows 8 RT and WP8, do you still want to go back and look at the dated technology using a different language? We will see more and more of these developers not supporting WP7.x.
These are not so much of issues if you 1. got your phone for free. 2. Didn't have to sign for 24 months contracts. 3. Bought it on eBay. You are just getting additional value (WP7.8) for your device. So coming here suggesting how cheap you bought your phone for is just adding insult to us who fell victim to Microsoft and Nokia. Had I realized as much as I have now 2 months ago, I would never invest in Lumia 900 as personal phone. So there you go, my take on Microsoft's problem.
12Danny123
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So you'll never buy a Wp again and just keep staying here. no offence. But speak English please
. I'm dumb!.... seriously.
. I'm dumb!.... seriously.Surely thats the worst thing Microsoft can do?
Aligning the kernel with W8, Surface, xbox, etc, will mean developers can write one app, that hits every single Microsoft platform (or requires a tiny amount of work to move between platforms).
Developers have never bothered with WP7 apps, because of the marketshare. The day the xbox moves over to the new kernel, there will be 10s of millions of devices instantly able to download apps, that would work (with minimal work) on a WP8. Then add Windows 8, the new kernel is essential.
I personally think Microsoft's strategy for WP8 is spot on, it at last looks like the OS may be able to compete with iOS/Android, rather than being a generation behind.
For me, WP7.8 is a PR disaster. If the kernel didn't support single core, or ran like a dog, i can understand why it wasn't updated, but why just completely drop support for it? Why not keep it updating for the next year or two for low end devices. Give it as many apps as are possible with the old APIs.
So you'll never buy a Wp again and just keep staying here. no offence. But speak English please
Like i said, the more opinion I express, the lesser reply I get.
That's how trolling begins. You can have this place surrounded by WP Fans that praise, glorified, and support Microsoft and their decision, or you can try to accept that there are people who try to see the problem from different angle.
I don't know. I think Nokia might've known something. Don't forget who paid who $1 billion dollars last year, and it's been hinted that Nokia has a special relationship that other OEMs don't with MS and Windows Phone. I think it's just an unfortunate turn of events that happened. I mean it only looks like the shaft is being done to Nokia because they didn't sell more Lumia phones (though more owners would be pissed). If Nokia sold a ton of Lumias, would things really look bad for Nokia getting this news?
At the same time, who's to say that MS at the time Lumia was released wasn't thinking they would transition older handsets to WP8? It's hard to pinpoint when since the release of 7.5 that the WP Team said they wouldn't commit any resources on older hardware. That they didn't tell Nokia after the decision was made though, well that I think is just a side effect of business. (though MS does have a habit of something like this with their software from what I read, like Office)
I doubt many of the other OEMs, outside of Nokia, care that much. I mean it's not like those guys committed as much anyways. Of course they weren't paid by MS to do so like Nokia. So I don't see how this move will affect development in a negative way. Even if Nokia is miffed about the situation though, they're still bound by contract to help out MS and if there's positive results from WP8 then all this brouhaha might end up being water under the bridge.
I thought that's Tango is for? Also, why would they "have no choice but to purchase Nokia"?
Doesn't this depend on the type of app the developer is making though and how many of the hardware related API's they'll be utilizing? Assuming a developer just uses the same combination of sensors between the two types of devices in his app is it that hard to recompile the code so that it calls the right APIs in WP8? I think people would still start a new project for WP7 until the adoption for WP8 rises and Tango gets replaced with its next iteration.
I'm not trying to take away from your feelings of angst for Microsoft; you can go ahead and be mad at them all you want. I know people want to vent just to vent, but it's not like you come out as the fool. Hindsight is always 20/20. Plus, it shouldn't exactly shake the foundations for your faith in MS because you yourself even admit that you understand the reason behind the move. It's not like MS did it just so you'd have to purchase a new phone or that they're necessarily setting a trend for something like that.
Actually I agree with you on both. Microsoft seems to be the only company that is able to streamline the development and be benefit from it. Sony could've done the same with their Xperia line, Playstation, and their other electronics like TV, etc. Apple doesn't really have the much products in their portfolio, Android's just...too much things going on. So yeah, this is a spot on for Microsoft.
I just got the feeling that they decided to reset the install base back to zero way too soon as WP7 was just started to pick up the tractions such as having Nokia as partners and adding Skype to its portfolio. This calls for negative PR no matter how you slice it. When Andy Lee was heading the team, he had the style approach of to imitate whatever features iOS has (like Microsoft has been doing with their desktop OS). Terry Myerson on the other hand seems to handle things differently and wants WP to differentiate. This can be seen by WP's enterprise support (which apple is not good at) and the streamlining the development across Microsoft's products. To me though he's over doing it, and is ruining what Andy Lee has paved out for him.
To me I would've been happy if WP8 could've been just the same kernel with added support for dual or quad core CPUs, more polished interface, and continue adding core features like the enterprise support WP8 has. I still failed to see how relevant the stuff they announced in the WP Summit is to the regular consumers (changing platform, enterprise support, NFC). I would think most users would agree with me. This would make me happy, and Nokia could've taken the opportunity in pumping up their sale volumes in the low end sectors. Instead Myerson wanted to do so much that he slashed the whole platform to start from scratch. I can't say that he's wrong as we both agree that it is a spot on for WP8. But i'm also curious does it has to be now. If whatever is coming is so great that Myerson is willing to sacrifice WP's old supporters, interim adopters (like the customers Nokia brought over), and potential customers the bad press might effect, why didn't he just give us in the WP Summit. I think he should've gave us the WP8 update that we were expecting while working in secrecy to reinvent the platforms.
I might've over analyzed about the hardware manufacturers part. Like you said they weren't all that committed.
To my knowledge the only thing that makes Tango an OS update that supports low end hardware configuration was the use of the 256mb ram. Nokia tried to make a cheaper phone with cheaper components like slower CPU, etc. But with Microsoft's kernel supporting only so little hardware Nokia had no choice but to only cut down the cost thru the memory. We all know how it turned out with the inability to run Angry bird space or Skype. Had Microsoft didn't do so much on switching the platform, they could've added support for more reasonable hardware configuration that allows Nokia to makes low end handsets.
That is correct and I was merely referring to new and casual developers who are interested in getting into developing for WP. You have commercial companies that wants to ship out the product asap, and you have those new and casual developers that takes time on developing their stuff. If I had spent 3 months learning C++ and push out my first app, I don't know if I would go back to learn C# and try to make the same app for the 7.x crowd. Wouldn't it be more logical to try to learn more about C++ and improve your first app?
I'm more frustrated about some people on the forum not seeing the problem and accusing and blaming others for bringing negative atmosphere/trolling to their perfect WP world.
But it's true that I am upset about how MS and Nokia (especially Nokia) handled the situation. Things already happened and I won't be able to do too much about it except for sharing the information to others who may wants to know.
But with the existing kernel, you lose all the apps WP8 will get as a result of the W8/Xbox association, that for me is the reason why this decision would appease existing users short term, but probably see WP8 resigned to a distant 3rd place as WP7 is.
Enterprise doesn't sound exciting, but with Blackberry failing, companies will be looking for a replacement. Get WP8 playing nice with Office, and proper enterprise supprt, thats a huge market potential, then the business apps start flowing to WP8, and could secure it as the new Blackberry.
Enterprise tend to spend a lot more on phone contracts, and that'll attract the telcos. In one easy move, telcos actually WANT WP8, rather than pushing it, because Microsoft are throwing money at them.
AngryNil
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Seems to me that it's a bad PR move and even worse considering Microsoft's non-existence in the mobile space. I'm not convinced that getting the manufacturers to rewrite drivers and putting in the engineering effort to get devices onto Windows Phone 8 (or at least app compatibility) is more costly than screwing over loyal customers and giving the tech media a field day.
Although you could look at it a different way.
Microsoft take a huge hit now, but its then all over and done with.
Or they upgrade everyone to WP8, and spend the next 2 years with people moaning about the performance of WP7 devices on WP8, and the inevitable compatibility issues with the older hardware.
Neither way is right. Both have severe downsides.
Winterfang
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I can think of a couple of hundred million reasons. All the extra advertising they keep whacking in will also help
ejb222
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I think this thread is really short sited. The move to WP8 is the best option that MS has. They were direct and honest about the whole ordeal. They didn't need to tell anyone. They don't even have to provide updates period. It's no guarantee. People just want to come here and complain since they didn't get what they expected. So now we have a bunch of resident experts...financial experts, programing experts, MS' 10year plan experts, etc. I have a L900..and though I'm a little sad that I cant get WP8 on my phone...I'm honest with myself and realize 1) its for the better of WP 2) I was a fool to buy my phone expecting WP8 even with all the research i did.
If you can't accept what happened you will be stuck on this thread for a long time. my suggestion is to live with it and make the best out of it. You're not going to change MS' mind. But you can help them improve, but that needs you to first accept reality.
OH Yeah...your other option is support another Company...that is your biggest and loudest voice. Unless you can start your own software company and take over MS' share of the market.
If you can't accept what happened you will be stuck on this thread for a long time. my suggestion is to live with it and make the best out of it. You're not going to change MS' mind. But you can help them improve, but that needs you to first accept reality.
OH Yeah...your other option is support another Company...that is your biggest and loudest voice. Unless you can start your own software company and take over MS' share of the market.
HeyCori
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selfcreation
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- they dint have the proper Kernel on Windows Phone 7 because they ditn have W8 done yet and only once that was done could they then adapted WP8's kernel to it to make it the best possible Ecosystem! Even if MS is a HUGE company they still cant see in the future!
- They rushed out WP7.x Because they needed to get out their NOW , and yes it might of felt underwhelming to allot of us considering what Iphone and Android already had, but MS couldn't afford to wait an other 2 years for a new phone(wp8)!!! the WM phones where suffering even more in terms of sales!
- WP market share right now are SOOO low and User base is SOO low compare to where they want to be that it really doesn't matter if they lose the client they have now, WP8 has MUCH more potential at growing then WP7.X ever did!!!
- Even if they lose Clients , MS still has allot of Loyal Clients ( like my self ) so even with this 8 situation I dont think allot of us will be leaving the platform for this. Specially that we still have next to NO idea what Features we are getting.
- the only BIG disappointing difference is not being able to run games with Native Coding. BIG WHOP , and this makes sens cause running does new amazing games on single core under-performing phones might cause Worst User experience and cause more complaints / problems for end users.
- All does people threatening to LEAVE WP platform ( that are on the titan 2 , or the L900 ) and saying they are going to buy an Iphone 4S or the newest Android.. well screw them , let them PAY full price on a Android phone instead of just Spending it on on a new WP8.
- Also , this Gives WP 7.8 a Great chance at becoming the LOW END phones of Microsoft. Look at Android, 80% of Android Sales are on LOW END 200$(full Price) phones. How do you think Android Become #1? NOT BECAUSE THEY ARE THE BEST!!! but because they are the ONLY smartphone to offer LOW END Entry Level Smartphones. DIRT CHEAP!!
And I PRAISE MS for going into that direction and is the ONLY Hope at One day passing APPLE and Maybe Google.
People need to relies this was 100% Business Decision for the LONG HULL!! Big company's like MS/apple/Google . generally dont care about short term... they want the future!
thats my 2cents. :happy:
- They rushed out WP7.x Because they needed to get out their NOW , and yes it might of felt underwhelming to allot of us considering what Iphone and Android already had, but MS couldn't afford to wait an other 2 years for a new phone(wp8)!!! the WM phones where suffering even more in terms of sales!
- WP market share right now are SOOO low and User base is SOO low compare to where they want to be that it really doesn't matter if they lose the client they have now, WP8 has MUCH more potential at growing then WP7.X ever did!!!
- Even if they lose Clients , MS still has allot of Loyal Clients ( like my self
) so even with this 8 situation I dont think allot of us will be leaving the platform for this. Specially that we still have next to NO idea what Features we are getting.- the only BIG disappointing difference is not being able to run games with Native Coding. BIG WHOP , and this makes sens cause running does new amazing games on single core under-performing phones might cause Worst User experience and cause more complaints / problems for end users.
- All does people threatening to LEAVE WP platform ( that are on the titan 2 , or the L900 ) and saying they are going to buy an Iphone 4S or the newest Android.. well screw them , let them PAY full price on a Android phone instead of just Spending it on on a new WP8.
- Also , this Gives WP 7.8 a Great chance at becoming the LOW END phones of Microsoft. Look at Android, 80% of Android Sales are on LOW END 200$(full Price) phones. How do you think Android Become #1? NOT BECAUSE THEY ARE THE BEST!!! but because they are the ONLY smartphone to offer LOW END Entry Level Smartphones. DIRT CHEAP!!
And I PRAISE MS for going into that direction and is the ONLY Hope at One day passing APPLE and Maybe Google.
People need to relies this was 100% Business Decision for the LONG HULL!! Big company's like MS/apple/Google . generally dont care about short term... they want the future!
thats my 2cents. :happy:
jimski
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What's interesting to me is if WP8 was not going to be released until November 2013, like the new XBox, nobody would have anything to ***** about. Like a kid whining cause he can't have the candy in the glass case.
Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express Pro
Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express Pro
sdreamer
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According to TechCrunch Nokia knew about being stuck on WP7.x Jumping Off The Burning Platform: Nokia Knew It Was Stuck On WP7 When It Signed On | TechCrunch
Also, apparently Greg Sullivan of MSFT also admitted to Mashables 8 was possible for current devices, but they were too lazy to do it (ok not exact words but that's how I felt what he meant).
Microsoft’s Greg Sullivan: We are bringing the look and feel of Windows Phone 8 to the Nokia Lumia 900, all other Windows Phones | WMPoweruser
I'd be fine if Microsoft just admitted what they were doing and plainly said "sorry," instead of just pushing us current WP users to the side. I guess you can say they did with the 7.8 update, but I'd like a more sincere apology saying something like "we tried, but we can't so we are sorry to all those WP users. Here's 100$" (ok that last part I'm joking, lol).
Also, apparently Greg Sullivan of MSFT also admitted to Mashables 8 was possible for current devices, but they were too lazy to do it (ok not exact words but that's how I felt what he meant).
Microsoft’s Greg Sullivan: We are bringing the look and feel of Windows Phone 8 to the Nokia Lumia 900, all other Windows Phones | WMPoweruser
I'd be fine if Microsoft just admitted what they were doing and plainly said "sorry," instead of just pushing us current WP users to the side. I guess you can say they did with the 7.8 update, but I'd like a more sincere apology saying something like "we tried, but we can't so we are sorry to all those WP users. Here's 100$" (ok that last part I'm joking, lol).
I believe the reason they have so many low end entry level smartphones is because of licensing fees being a heck of a lot cheaper than using MSFT's being the biggest reason (isn't it virtually free to use Google's OS? Even if MSFT patents being paid from them, I think it's still cheaper to use Android than WP.). Of course one other reason is hardware requirements, but you don't see a bunch of low end WP even with Tango in the wild.
Of course its possible. Anything is possible with enough work, i wouldn't be supprised if Microsoft already had it running in some sort of bare fashion.
The question is whether it gives the user a good experience? Bells and whistles are lovely, but if our phones are unusably slow, it won't matter.
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