Why Microsoft just made a huge mistake.

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Titan, Lumia ,etc are Gen 1.5 devices. The version number only went up by half in between them so that's only a half generation rather than full. The way I see this is that MS just did what Apple did, say the Gen 1 devices such as the HD7 are the original iPhone and the Gen 1.5 devices are the iPhone 3G. The iPhone 3G did not get updated past iOS2 once the 3GS came out that changed. This is what MS is doing except that they're being nice enough to still offer some of what WP8 has to offer. But I guess that's a crime.

I can't believe what I'm reading... You cannot be serious...

Gen 1.5 cause WP7 only went up half a version? Actually Mango is 7.1 so they're Gen 1.1 devices!!! Yay.

You make absolutely no sense at all. Versioning has nothing to do with the phones. The phones are called Gen 2 devices because they were designed for Mango, unlike Gen 1/Launch devices. "Gen 2 devices" is not an official term for them. It's a term we the community invented to make discussing the different tiers of devices easier. Maybe we should drop that and just say "Mango Devices." That is more accurate as it accurately tells the story that they shipped with Mango and won't be getting a full Apollo, but instead a Tango which is comparable to NoDo + Some.

It's comparable to Android manufacturers who shipped FroYo devices, issued a Maintenance update and then forgot about it. It stinks. People have been through this before. Lots of people came to Microsoft specifically to avoid these types of support mishaps, and before release Microsoft actually sort of rode the hype we created about how support would be better on this platform.

Early adopters are usually the best evangelists for your platform/services. Pissing them off can really hurt, you know...
 
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actually WP does have Gen 1 , GEN 1.5 and GEN 2.

Gen 1 = pre-nodo / MAngo
Gen 1.5 = Pre Mango
Gen 2 = mango.. ( L900/ titan 2 , focus 2 etc.. )

and Normally a GEN of a phone is NORMALLY determined by the HARDWARE more then software.. as they where all upgradeable up to here, hence making them all the same except for the hardware.

but thats what they call them any ways... ( here at WPcentral and most of ALL other bloggers)


GEN 2 in theory SHOULD have been WP8 + in my books.

what i think it should of been and would of made more sens.

Gen 1: Pre nodo
Gen 1.25: Pre-mango
Gen 1.5 : Mango
Gen 1.75: Tango
Gen2: WP8

it would make more sens considering we are not getting WP8 on Phones prior to Gen2... think it would have made it easier for people to understand why we are not getting WP8.

ether way.. who really cares about this?!?!
 
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Okay, so what have we been talking about this whole time?

I don't know what have we been talking about? I'm not even sure I have your concern pinned down. From what we know I'm not sure how conclusive we can say that WP7.8 won't have the additional added benefits that WP8 has because we don't know how much of the newer hardware the kernel relies on, though it's probably a good portion. I don't think we'd be missing out on IE10 or Wallet though or intra-app communication. I could be wrong though.

Yet, I don't see how it's really any different from 3G losing features that the 4S has because of the differences in hardware. Looking on Wiki, I see the iPhone 3G has no gyroscope, which means one wouldn't be able to use an app built to take advantage of that in the new iPhones. The only difference is Apple keeps the naming convention the same among devices, whereas here MS is making it clear and goes through a different naming scheme.

On another note, I just hope I didn't waste my time writing all this out.
 
Okay, but no one has this Windows 8 phone yet. So I guess they assume that everyone is just going to transfer from their 7.8 to 8?

If they get 7.8 right I certainly will be, when I'm allowed to get a new phone. I'm not bound to a contract as such (it's a 30-day rolling SIM only contract), but I am bound to a even greater force. That of the Mum. Who will insist I use this TITAN for another 18 months (I've used it for 6 so far), before I can upgrade. Now I live with my parents, so I am bound by their rules.
 
It is a problem for sure.. but they aren't abondoning their users. They will be updating the old phones, just not with the things they are unable to handle. If the hardware isn't up for the new features there really isn't much that can be done.

I have one Android phone that became unusable after the update to 2.2 because the upgrade simply could not handle it. In that case Motorolla would have been much better off just trying to add the features from the latest OS that is could handle. And that is precisely what Microsoft is doing.

Current Windows Phones run very smooth with the OS and features they came with, the OS and features are heavily optimized for that hardware. Windows Phone 8 is optimized for newer and better hardware.
 
The GS3 is coming out at least a full year after the GS2. The L900 isn't getting a full OS upgrade and it hasn't even been out for 6 months.

The GS2 just got ICS from Samsung. And it's full ICS, not an ICS launcher and some bits and pieces here and there.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say. There's no equivalency here. The differences in TW/Camera Software are OEM customization largely absent on non-Nokia WP7 devices, anyways. Not getting TW Nature UX is not even a factor in the GS2 updates...

Since the FroYo update debacles Android OEMs have improved tremendously at delivering updatess.

Better late than never.

Lol new UI huge feature upgrade... I mean on other OSes you can do that without updating your FW anytime you want. That's not what people wanted. They wanted compatibility with the ecosystem as it moved forward. They'll still have over a year on their contracts when WP8 launches and you can bet they will start feeling the RIM errr... pain a few months after release as developers move to WP8 and start abandoning support for WP7 devices - cause in Mobile developers are already stretched thing with so many platforms to maintain a presence on.


Yes, Samsung has released ICS for GS2. But it doesn't come with the newest version of ToucWiz, and it is not on mine. Being on Sprint, I still have not gotten my upgrade to ICS. I know in Europe it is already on those devices, but not mine.

And unless they change TouchWiz, I am still going to miss out on ICS features. There are things even Gingerbread has and I don't. And in the US, GS2 came out in the fall. GS3 is out for some carriers all ready.

And lets not talk about Motorola, where there upgrades aren't evenin site yet.
 
Did you buy your phone because you love it or for bragging rights?

Remember Windows Vista?

Why did it suck?

Because it was slow

When you mention the word "Windows" to people they automatically think of the BAD

WP8 running on WP7.5 is going to be BAD

Does Microsoft want the word BAD associated to the word "Windows"?

The answer is NO.

So MS optimized Windows Phone 8 & released WP7.8 so people wont get a BAD experience with Windows

Get what I'm saying?

Regards,

Based_Graham@twitter
 
Did you buy your phone because you love it or for bragging rights?

Neither, I bought it because I wanted to try Windows Phone, as I had used iOS and BlackBerry OS loads, and Android a bit.

Remember Windows Vista?

Why did it suck?

Because it was slow

My mate uses Vista, it's the only OS he has never had problems with... I had about a par in terms of problems between Vista and 7. But both of our experiences with Vista have been really smooth and fast. I daresay it didn't get any faster when I upgraded to 7.

When you mention the word "Windows" to people they automatically think of the BAD

Can't argue with that. That is very true. People at uni have been saying if they hadn't included Windows in the name on their phones it would have sold like hotcakes.

WP8 running on WP7.5 is going to be BAD

Does Microsoft want the word BAD associated to the word "Windows"?

The answer is NO.

So MS optimized Windows Phone 8 & released WP7.8 so people wont get a BAD experience with Windows

Get what I'm saying?

Yes, I understand, but it doesn't stop it being any less sharp a blow for those annoyed by it.
 
Neither, I bought it because I wanted to try Windows Phone, as I had used iOS and BlackBerry OS loads, and Android a bit.



My mate uses Vista, it's the only OS he has never had problems with... I had about a par in terms of problems between Vista and 7. But both of our experiences with Vista have been really smooth and fast. I daresay it didn't get any faster when I upgraded to 7.



Can't argue with that. That is very true. People at uni have been saying if they hadn't included Windows in the name on their phones it would have sold like hotcakes.



Yes, I understand, but it doesn't stop it being any less sharp a blow for those annoyed by it.

Don't worry :)

Microsoft and Nokia need the conquer the low end market

They can't do that with dual core high priced phones

Consider 7.8 is just as important as WP8 to MS & Nokia

7.8 is the new tango.

Developers will write more apps for people.

More people will have 7.8 than 8

Don't expect WP7.8 apps to go away just yet

Also expect more features

Regardless it should last you another year until an early upgrade

Hope you stick with Windows Phone :)

Regards,

Based_Graham@twitter
 
ICS doesn't call for the requirements that WP8 does, and even so, how many phones are on it/receiving it?


















And I thank you
 
ICS doesn't call for the requirements that WP8 does, and even so, how many phones are on it/receiving it?

What a lot of people don't get is... A lot of Android devices, aren't seeing any update at all. While a lot of phones to come are for ICS 4.0 and Jelly Bean 4.1. You wont be seeing these OS's on any early phone. I don't get why people are so frantic about this. You're still getting an update, you'll still probably receive future updates... but no, it's not good enough. iPhone 3S might run iOS 5, but it doesn't run what the iPhone 4S runs. iPhone 4S wont run what the iPhone 5 runs... It's simple as that. There comes a point when a new phone is the only option.
 
Maybe apps for 7.x will dry up instantly and maybe they won't.
This is precisely where the argument falls apart. As much as you might like to say "Android fragmentation", devices without ICS are still able to run nearly all apps. Even if they do move on at this stage, there will be less of an impact because Google Play already has an expansive range of apps. With still many app holes in our Marketplace, there's no guarantee they will be filled in the 7.x selection.

I don't care for the home screen (I actually don't really want it, I'd much prefer the legacy home screen with the option to flip between single and double width and grouped tiles) or things such as Skype integration on my Omnia. These are OS features; there isn't a direct comparison to be made with the competition. I'm concerned about being left behind in what is already the weakest app ecosystem of the "big three".

I worry for the regular consumer who bought a Lumia 900, liking the physical design and the software. However, they might have quickly realised the app gap, and now, there's good reason to doubt that this gap will be filled within the lifetime of the device. That's a dick move pulled on the consumer - poor selection, and now poor future prospects.
 
This is precisely where the argument falls apart. As much as you might like to say "Android fragmentation", devices without ICS are still able to run nearly all apps. Even if they do move on at this stage, there will be less of an impact because Google Play already has an expansive range of apps. With still many app holes in our Marketplace, there's no guarantee they will be filled in the 7.x selection.

I don't care for the home screen (I actually don't really want it, I'd much prefer the legacy home screen with the option to flip between single and double width and grouped tiles) or things such as Skype integration on my Omnia. These are OS features; there isn't a direct comparison to be made with the competition. I'm concerned about being left behind in what is already the weakest app ecosystem of the "big three".

I worry for the regular consumer who bought a Lumia 900, liking the physical design and the software. However, they might have quickly realised the app gap, and now, there's good reason to doubt that this gap will be filled within the lifetime of the device. That's a dick move pulled on the consumer - poor selection, and now poor future prospects.

It is strange how you don't care about the OS features that essentially makes an OS stand out in the competition. I doubt that the number of apps drive innovation, but OS features do.

Also, NOT all apps that run on ICS run on all other Android versions. Here are the ICS ONLY apps (there *might be* more):

  1. Nova launcher
  2. Apex launcher
  3. Trebuchet launcher
  4. Chrome beta
  5. Boid Twitter
  6. Notes for ICS
  7. ICS browser
 
Did you buy your phone because you love it or for bragging rights?

Remember Windows Vista?

Why did it suck?

Because it was slow

When you mention the word "Windows" to people they automatically think of the BAD

WP8 running on WP7.5 is going to be BAD

Does Microsoft want the word BAD associated to the word "Windows"?

The answer is NO.

So MS optimized Windows Phone 8 & released WP7.8 so people wont get a BAD experience with Windows

Get what I'm saying?

Regards,

Based_Graham@twitter

I like what you say but no one knows for sure. You are only speculating WP7 hardware would be terrible with the WP8.

Now say if someone is able to port WP8 to WP7 and it runs very decently would your opinion change? It's likely that phone makers decided it was not worth the effort.

In reality, changing the OS on a phone is huge. We're talking about at least 2 months optimizing for old hardware then about 2 more months of validation PER HARDWARE: l900, titan, etc. In the end it's almost like releasing a new phone. I guess the decision was to release new hardware and hopefully attract new users.

I do wish incentives would be offered such as a discount toward getting at WP8 phone but if it was going to announced... it would have already be announced.

Anyways I gave up my L900, cancelled my 2 year contract and using my Verizon again. Will look at the new phones in the Fall but.. unfortunately for microsoft iphone5 is right around the corner.
 
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I wonder how people will feel when the iPhone 5 is released with its new connector which will make ALL accessories incompatible...
 
I wonder how people will feel when the iPhone 5 is released with its new connector which will make ALL accessories incompatible...

Some third party company will make a connector, that connects each connector. I guarantee it... or Apple will make it themselves. Apple wouldn't just go out of their way to add a new connector without making sure the old one is still viable.
 
Yeah but how would an adapter be useful when so many accessories are tightly fitted to the phone?
 
It is strange how you don't care about the OS features that essentially makes an OS stand out in the competition. I doubt that the number of apps drive innovation, but OS features do.
Apps extend the experience and make my phone a smartphone. Without them, I'm stuck with a social feature phone. I'm not saying Windows Phone is not innovative, but the fact of the matter is that apps are a big deal and many are willing to sacrifice some polish and elegance for sheer functionality.

I'm well aware that Android 2.x does not support all apps, and I never stated otherwise. What I said was that Android's current catalogue makes that less of an issue, whereas Windows Phone 7.x users may never get that killer app they've been waiting for since it could be developed for WP8.

If we are to trust Mr Selfcreation, plenty of developers are apparently waiting for WP8. This is what he's iterated on pretty much every recent "where's this app" post. What he's pretty much said to those people is "you're screwed, you're never getting it".
 
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