Win10 update process will be a painful experience

[Don Geronimo]

Yes, a Win8pro disc, not a Win8.1pro disc. See the difference? Win8 upgrade was issued correctly. Not via the store. That's my point.

Except that I've been successful using Microsoft's Media Creation Tool to get 8.1 Pro and to create a DVD install using ISO and USB drives, and I've been successful installing 8.1 cleanly not just for my Surface Pro, but also for installing cleanly on a friends computer after I made backups of their product keys. Worse case, I installed using a generic product key and changed it later after installation to get a genuine validation.

Upgrading to 10 from 8.1, not a clean install, gave me a recovery partition to enable a reset on the 10 device to give me a clean reinstall without having to roll back to 8.1 beforehand. Done that many times to clean reset W10 when things went wonky.

 

[coolqf]

I wonder how this'll affect computers that included Windows. It's hardcoded into my laptop my product key for Win 8.1 OEM - DELL. I assumed that MS would simply allow me to clean install to Win10 for free?

 

[AndyCalling]

Except that I've been successful using Microsoft's Media Creation Tool to get 8.1 Pro and to create a DVD install using ISO and USB drives, and I've been successful installing 8.1 cleanly not just for my Surface Pro, but also for installing cleanly on a friends computer after I made backups of their product keys. Worse case, I installed using a generic product key and changed it later after installation to get a genuine validation.

Upgrading to 10 from 8.1, not a clean install, gave me a recovery partition to enable a reset on the 10 device to give me a clean reinstall without having to roll back to 8.1 beforehand. Done that many times to clean reset W10 when things went wonky.

Interesting to hear they've changed the tool. Such was not possible for a long time after 8.1s release (in fact, since they never provided an upgrade activation code for 8.1 unless you cadged it post install, it is still a bit of a cludge). That'll definitely help, but this change needs to be advertised. If they do this straight away for Win10 that'll be grand, but the WC article sounded very definite about 10 being made available for upgrade only through the store. I do hope they are wrong, because if we get an iso it can be clean installed over a raw 8 pro install with no updates. Much better for an official install process and would make the 8.1 iso redundant.

The 8.1 iso download page for store updaters from MS claims it can only be used for refresh etc. rather than a clean install. This kind of 'advertising' doesn't help, since you have discovered it is false.

 

[AndyCalling]

I wonder how this'll affect computers that included Windows. It's hardcoded into my laptop my product key for Win 8.1 OEM - DELL. I assumed that MS would simply allow me to clean install to Win10 for free?

There will be a way, some work-around or hack, but MS have been making it awkward in recent years. I hope they take the opportunity with W10 to step back from this approach, but the current line is not inspiring confidence.

 

[Don Geronimo]

I don't understand. It was pretty advertised that they made that a possibility. Not to mention Microsoft's Create Reset/Refresh Media says right up front that, "If you need to install or reinstall Windows 8.1, you can use the tool on this page to create your own installation media using either a USB flash drive or a DVD." Not to mention, a Reset in Settings -> Update/Recovery does exactly what a clean install would do, whether for 8, 8.1, or 10, right now, as it is, and working. The worse case that I posted, where I had to use a generic install key, has been like that since Windows 7.

As I said before, assumptions and postulations are alright until they have been debunked.

 

[astondg]

I have not accused anyone of wrongdoing or piracy, please do not compare me on that front. It is not appropriate, just like Emi's post.

I did not compare your actions. I said you are being rude. And you are. I don't care how you got there, it's still not nice.

Unfortunately it is difficult to seem anything but incredulous to people who really think I have some kind of knowledge of the future and that I am somehow dealing in future facts, as such is clearly bunkum and those ideas will get no respect from me. Rightfully so.

I don't think you have any knowledge of the future. That's part of my point. You don't know. Although you have changed your story from earlier when you stated:

Actually, if you read this article, I think we do know.

If you truly had read all my posts you would realise how wrong you are with regards to my objectives. I have tried to explain them to you in pretty good detail, I thought, but if I've still not been effective in communicating my processes to you then we can only settle for my reassuring you that my approach is not as you imagine. Can you find that acceptable?

I have read every word of every post, and I just re-read them. They are mostly stating how the install process will be broken and not allow you to install how you like. No where do you suggest taking these issues to Microsoft and every time someone offers a workaround you shut it down with an assumption that it will no longer work for Windows 10 or are otherwise dismissive.

 

[AndyCalling]

I did not compare your actions. I said you are being rude. And you are. I don't care how you got there, it's still not nice.



I don't think you have any knowledge of the future. That's part of my point. You don't know. Although you have changed your story from earlier when you stated:




I have read every word of every post, and I just re-read them. They are mostly stating how the install process will be broken and not allow you to install how you like. No where do you suggest taking these issues to Microsoft and every time someone offers a workaround you shut it down with an assumption that it will no longer work for Windows 10 or are otherwise dismissive.

Come on now, I'm not trying to be rude. You have made a point, that my thread may appear to some as if I'm talking about what will certainly happen in the future when I ought to recognise that I only know what might happen in the future. I have simply pointed out that the only perspective from which that 'logic' makes sense is one where the person concerned believes it is possible that I could have such knowledge. It is clear that you do not think I am a clairvoyant but you are concerned I should consider others who might be less rational. I am afraid I am not capable of walking around those eggshells all the time.

The English language, indeed many languages uses words that can be read as extremes and absolutes but are not intended to be taken as such. They are easy to spot because the context is part of the communication. In a reality where clairvoyance is nonsense, it is clear I am talking about current intent of MS and my expectation that they will continue down that path. Not a certain future reality I have knowledge of.

I thought you were talking about all my posts, not just this thread. My mistake. Yes, on this issue I believe MS are intent on pressing ahead with their difficult update process but I hope they will not. If you have any indicative evidence to refute that belief I would be keen to hear it but past experience with Win8.1 and its brace of unofficial work-arounds and late attempts to shut the gate way after the horse had bolted is not a positive indicator and the WC article is nothing short of discouraging on this point.

If you think that so unreasonable then I'm afraid we are unlikely to be able to agree here, and no-one could say we haven't tried together. Perhaps you would have a more productive discussion with someone who has an alternative perspective?

 

[Claudia Wey]

I know. I tried to use the product key for the update too without success.

 

[astondg]

No ISO yet but a seemingly Microsoft sponsored way to make your own from the upgrade: How to: Create a bootable ISO file from your Windows 10 Download - Microsoft Community

Hopefully an ISO is released soon after the 29th.