Windows Media Center to make a return on Windows 10 ? Any updates ?

[Kevin Rush]

Thank you, everyone for your comments in this forum string. It is a good read and mostly informative.

Our family is relatively new to WMC, but our story is much like many I have read. EVERY DAY, we use our dedicated PC (SSD for the Windows 7 OS and 3 TB hard disk) with Ceton XfiniTV PCIe 4 tuner card (Comcast M card) and HDMI running to the 58" Panasonic Plasma with XBox 360s on the other TVs.

Windows Media Center is truly amazing. Easy to use by the average person. It works great for us. We use it for time shifting all our TV shows. I can't remember the last time we watched a TV show live and sat through the commercials. We also have family photos w/ play lists, our music collection and a few movies on WMC. Available on all the TVs! I know, the readers here know all this, but we and our guests are still impressed.

With all the hard disk space available (and we could easily add more) we set up to record each and every new show we have any interest in, each new TV season using the integrated TV Guide. Then at our leisure, we watch them to see if we like them or not. Windows Media Center is the only solution that records protected DRM content so we record shows on premium channels like HBO, ... too.

I'm not interested in paying for cable set top boxes or paying for TiVo or giving up my easy to use whole house media center. I did pay the $10 to Microsoft to add features "Windows Media Center" to my SurfacePro2 running Windows 8.1 OS and would have gladly paid more. (I am planning to add a Ceton InfinTV 6 ETH ethernet cable card network tuner and access it from three PCs).

I'm surprised that any user would look to abandon the amazing Windows Media Center as long as it works. Jumping ship now, right away, because some day the ship may sink? Probably the same people that sells their car every year to get a new one. (I drive a 1999 and it works great.). That all said, I do wish Microsoft would start "actively developing" on WMC again. I would like to see a feature added to record streaming and on-demand TV so that I can watch my shows at my leisure, even later when they aren't available on-demand or for streaming or the internet is flakey.

Thank You for supporting Windows Media Center.
Best Wishes.

 

[DavidinCT]

Thank you, everyone for your comments in this forum string. It is a good read and mostly informative.

Our family is relatively new to WMC, but our story is much like many I have read. EVERY DAY, we use our dedicated PC (SSD for the Windows 7 OS and 3 TB hard disk) with Ceton XfiniTV PCIe 4 tuner card (Comcast M card) and HDMI running to the 58" Panasonic Plasma with XBox 360s on the other TVs.

Pretty much my setup, 90gb SSD for the OS, all my media (recorded TV gets a 2TB drive) goes on other drives with another 6TB for everything. And a CETON tuner for cablecard.

At one time (before Comcast should off analog and clear QAM), I had 12 tuners in my MCE machine, this was pretty much unlimited recording for my family, I could record 8 things at one time and still have live TV tuners available for everyone.

All in a dedicated HTPC case with a VFD (display that shows status), that serves 3 Xbox 360s in the house.

Love the system, just works awesome and saves us $20+ a month from Comcast.

Thank You for supporting Windows Media Center.
Best Wishes.

I wish more people did, Microsoft made one of their best products ever. Did you know at one time, Microsoft was testing DirecTV and Dish Network add-ons for it for tuners ? Dedicated devices that you could connect up and get TV from those sources.

See pictures here (You can see Dish Network and Directv)
http://www.engadget.com/gallery/tour-of-microsofts-ehome-labs/

The eHome team was crazy during it's peak and the rumors that they came out with at that time was AWESOME, just wish a lot of the stuff came to light....

Microsoft is here in these forums if you are reading this can you give us any incite on this ? IS WMC coming to Windows10 and what is the chance it could be updated (not the same version with 7/8)?

 

[steverg]

I hope WMC never goes away. would be fine if it never was updated, as long as the guide still works who cares, it does what its supposed to.

also use WMC for a DVR. OTA to an HD home run, then MCEbuddy does comm skip, encodes to mkv, and moves them to my nas. I use plex as a front end to watch anywhere any device. The system is nearly flawless. we only access the WMC interface when wanting to watch live tv which is usually just for things like football games.

Its so easy to set up its just plain ridiculous. Ive tried 3 other dvr solutions and they all are so difficult to configure.

 

[DavidinCT]

Still no update from Microsoft on this....What is the deal here, as I know we have Microsoft employees monitoring this forum ???????

 

[schabelf]

I don't suppose there are many users of WMC who use it like I do since practically no one is interested in preserving video by burning to optical media anymore. I collect movies especially older movies by capturing them off of TCM High Def channel and then burning them to AVCHD DVDs. I assure you that the only way to do this is with a cablecard tuner on a PC with WMC. As long as Comcast does not set the record only once bit on TCM channel I will continue to do this and will not upgrade to Windows 10 or any other OS that will not allow this and that means having WMC or some other new program which will replace it completely.

 

[PBarrette]

There's a TCM HD channel? I have FiOS and they don't seem to offer it.

 

[Cho CoMo]

Oh....Huh......Been using it for 10 years with no problems at all........

 

[Cho CoMo]

Only product I am aware of that runs Cable Card tuners .....perfectly.......

 

[warmonked]

I've been using WMC regularly to record TV for years. As others have said it's the only way to record all streams (not just the freely-copy flagged ones) from cablecard tuners. There are some comments in the technical preview forums that the Win8 version can be installed in the Win10 preview which is promising, but I think it's extremely unlikely that it will get its much needed face lift.

There was a comment by an MS executive when Win8 was coming out that the usage numbers for WMC7 are extremely low. Like in the tens of thousands. With usage that low, I can't imagine them devoting any resources to this.

I was hoping that AndroidTV might incorporate some cablecard support, considering Google is one of the few that might be willing to pay the millions required for cablecard certification, but so far it's looking like they just want to make your typical Apps platform to promote streaming services.

 

[DavidinCT]

I've been using WMC regularly to record TV for years. As others have said it's the only way to record all streams (not just the freely-copy flagged ones) from cablecard tuners. There are some comments in the technical preview forums that the Win8 version can be installed in the Win10 preview which is promising, but I think it's extremely unlikely that it will get its much needed face lift.

There was a comment by an MS executive when Win8 was coming out that the usage numbers for WMC7 are extremely low. Like in the tens of thousands. With usage that low, I can't imagine them devoting any resources to this.

I was hoping that AndroidTV might incorporate some cablecard support, considering Google is one of the few that might be willing to pay the millions required for cablecard certification, but so far it's looking like they just want to make your typical Apps platform to promote streaming services.

You could at one point on the WIn 10 preview use your paid for Key and add Media Center to Windows 10, that no longer works.

Yea, the numbers were low on WMC but, the marketing for it when it was available...how do I put it....it sucked.. They did nothing for marketing accept for 1-2 commercials on Vista days and didn't even show 1/2 of what could be done with it. All it was a 2 second clip that you can watch tv on your PC in a Vista commerial. That is all they did. No wonder it failed.

If they re-did it and added some good marketing, I think it would do impressively good these days (see my big post, that I copied from another site).

It's very doubtful that Android could get Cablecard certification. Android is based on linix and that is open source. The requirement for cablecards are for content to be locked down to the machine where it was recorded on. Android might not be able to lock it down like the requirements are stated.

Also, it's big money to get that kind of certification, not sure any other company would invest in that, Microsoft spent some good money and resources on getting the certs for it.

I do think it's a product that deserves a return as I think in TODAY's market, I think it would a LOT better than when it came out, it really was ahead of it's time.

 

[jhoff80]

It's also not worth the cost for anything else to get CableCard certification really. CableCard is going to be phased out (and probably during the Windows 10 lifetime).

 

[oldpueblo]

It's my understanding that it was the cable companies that buried it, they were too difficult to work with and MS knew it would be a nightmare to support it. I mean it wasn't exactly novice level even in its best days. My friend that JUST started using it had a bunch of issues between the cable company and his tuner driver. It literally took days/weeks to get it running consistently well. Too many PC factors could contribute to it not working, many not even related to cable itself. I never have issues myself, but I just chose good hardware I guess and got lucky.

 

[DavidinCT]

It's my understanding that it was the cable companies that buried it, they were too difficult to work with and MS knew it would be a nightmare to support it. I mean it wasn't exactly novice level even in its best days. My friend that JUST started using it had a bunch of issues between the cable company and his tuner driver. It literally took days/weeks to get it running consistently well. Too many PC factors could contribute to it not working, many not even related to cable itself. I never have issues myself, but I just chose good hardware I guess and got lucky.

This is a interesting one.... It's easy to setup...All depends on a few factors, that drivers were installed correctly for the tuner and the Cable company correctly activated the cablecard (this is a big one where most problems happen). In a perfect world, this is possible in a very easy method.

1. Setup a Windows 7 machine (or 8 with the WMC pack)
2. Shut down PC and install a internal cablecard tuner, or connect to your network(networkable models).
3. start windows and Install drivers for your tuner, newest from the website, most come down with Windows update
4. Install cablecard into tuner (assuring it is inserted correctly).
5. Run Windows Media Center. When the wizard starts, follow the directions when going through "TV setup"
6. Let all components install (all happens during TV setup).
7. Follow the screen about the number to call to Activate your cablecard, it's pulled right down with the phone number to call in TV setup.
8. Watch TV.

After this point, you need to edit channels because Media Center does not know the Package you have(no way for MS to get this info). It's not really that complex and anyone who has done minor PC troubleshooting could handle this. Never mind all the manufactures of cablecard tuners have step by step directions for it.

Adding an Extender ? This could not be easier. Open WMC on the Xbox, Media Center will find the Xbox on the network and ask if you want to add it (or go into setup Extender). Enter the Code in the Xbox, and within 5 min your ready to go.

This is one of the things Microsoft did a great job with, It is easy to use and easy to setup if all the factors are correct. I am sure there are odd ball problems here and there but, 90% of the problems are minor ones that can be easily take care of.

I even do troubleshooting on WMC machines via teamviewer, if anyone is stuck with WMC, I can normally resolve most issues within 20 min or so.

This is one thing that MS did right in WMC....

It's also not worth the cost for anything else to get CableCard certification really. CableCard is going to be phased out (and probably during the Windows 10 lifetime).

Not sure about that, It's still mandatory from the FCC that a cable company HAS to offer a cablecard option.

There are other "appliances" like the Tivo that use cablecards and there still are TVs on the market that have a cablecard slot on them (not too many in the last few years tho). Never mind the companies who are in business because of this. If someone tries to kill it, it will have a large battle in court.

Will it go away, sure in time, but, by the time Windows 10 is released, I don't think so. You will see the cablecard OPTION available for many years.

If not intill MS finally kill all support for WMC, and that is around 2018 or 2020, As it's available for Windows 8 and the rumor mill is staying it will be an option with Windows 10 as well, just extending the life for WMC even longer.

 

[jhoff80]

The FCC has approved non CableCard cable boxes in the past few years, and alternatives are being investigated (such as an IP-based authentication solution). Meanwhile, there's only around ~600,000 CableCard users in the US. I don't see CableCard lasting more than another few years.

Don't get me wrong, I'm clinging to WMC and my HDhomerun Prime for as long as I can... but the market has clearly moved on, and there's no financial incentive there.

 

[David Youngclaus]

Media center will not work on Win10 Preview. Will have to wait for the real thing. I certainly hope WMC ends up being available because I too use a TV tuner ( no other solution is near as good) and record my programs. Do not upgrade a production PC with WMC to the Preview as it will not have WMC and therefore 'bork' your configuration. Win7 supported until 2020 so be PATIENT.

 

[IcarusPony]

Hello, everyone. I work for a major cable company and I work in the CableCARD support department. I also use a CableCARD with Windows Media Center on Windows 8.1 with a HD Homerun Prime. I have also used the ATI TV Wonder.

First, someone mentioned that there could not be a licensed CableCARD software for Linux/Android because it is open source. That is incorrect. Just because the operating system is open source doesn't mean that all software written for that operating system are open source, too. Anyone can write Linux/Android software and not release the source code and even sell it. That is what Google Store is all about.

Secondly, Microsoft's Windows Media Center is the only software that you can use that works with CableCARD's copy-protected channels. This is because Microsoft has licensed PlayReady, a software that enforces DRM to make Windows Media Center compliant with CableLabs' CableCARD specifications. Any other software will not be able to play channels that are "copy once" or "copy never". They would only play "copy freely" channels.

I am concerned about Microsoft pulling everyone into Windows 10, even offering it free to people who pirated Windows 7 and 8. It's like someone in a van offering free candy to children. I've heard people here saying that they are going to hold onto Windows 7 or Windows 8 Pro. The real concern is about the Guide. Zap2It was the company that Microsoft contracted to provide guide information. Recently, Microsoft has stopped using them and is "providing guide update via Windows updates". If Microsoft decides to stop update our guides, that will disable the DVR functionality, such as scheduling recordings. If that happens, all Windows 7 and 8 Pro users will be disabled and Windows Media Center will no longer work for CableCARDS for anyone's Windows Media Center.

CableCARDs are not going to be phased out "soon". By the time it is abandoned, it will have been because a majority of CableCARD users, themselves, abandoned CableCARD in favor of something else (such as online streaming).

The FCC did mandate that CableCARDs be offered by cable companies back in 2003. However, in 2013, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit vacated that order, so there is no more official necessity for cable companies to provide CableCARDs.

However, there is a good reason why we won't stop supporting CableCARDs.

When you rent a cable company's Set Top Box (STB) or Digital Video Recorder (DVR) you gain the ability to watch copy-protected channels. You also get features such as your cable company's guide, starting over a program, caller ID on TV, Impulse Pay Per View (IPPV), ordering new services with your remote control, and On Demand. All of these cable company boxes use CableCARDs inside of them. If we stopped supporting CableCARD, all of our STBs and DVRs in the field would stop working.

The CableCARDs in the cable company's boxes are the same hardware and firmware as the CableCARDs leased to customers.

So why is it that your CableCARD device doesn't provide you with your cable company's guide, starting over a program, caller ID on TV, Impulse Pay Per View (IPPV), ordering new services with your remote control, or On Demand? It is because they are working in one-way (receive only) mode and all of those features require two way communication.

All CableCARDs are two-way compatible. The reason your Tivo, Moxi, Samsung Smart Media Player, CableCARD TVs, HD Homerun Primes, InfinTVs, ATI TV Wonders, and Hauppauge DCRs are all "OCUR" (Open Cable Unidirectional Receiver) devices.

What determines if a CableCARD operates in one-way versus two-way mode is the host device (the device you place the CableCARD into). The cable company's special boxes (only legitimately sold to Cable Companies) have a "DSG" (DOCSIS Settop Gateway) in them. Basically, it is a built-in cablemodem for return signals sending information upstream back to the cable company. These devices are called "Tru2Way" devices.

No consumer-purchasable retail products include the hardware necessary for two-way communication.

Someone is probably going to mention Switched Digital Video (SDV) which is a two way technology that does work with OCUR devices. With the addition of a 2-way box called a "tuning adapter" (not to be confused with a Digital Transport Adapter or "DTA") the OCUR device has partial two-way communication. I say partial because the only function of the Tuning Adapter is to request SDV channels. It doesn't give you any other features such as the cable company's guide, On Demand, etc.

So why don't companies make retail boxes that are Tru2Way? One answer is obvious. If Tivo did it, you would be able to use the cable companies guide for free and you wouldn't need to pay them a monthly, annual, or lifetime subscription. Other companies that make products that provide a guide for free (all of the other non-Tivo retail devices) are handling this burden on their own. Therefore, they have the risk of the company shutting down its guide updates. Such as if Microsoft stops providing guide updates to Windows Media Center.

CableCARD TVs haven't been made for over 5 years. All the TV manufacturers abandoned CableCARD slot TVs. Their software is so out of date, that they cannot utilize or recognize tuning adapters. Therefore, if you place a CableCARD directly into a TV and you live in an area that has SDV channels, you cannot get all your channels. The TV manufacturers are not writing new firmware for these TVs to add that functionality.

Several people mentioned that the cable companies plot to make it difficult to get CableCARDs because we don't want you to have one. The truth of the matter is, since the order was overturned, we are still supporting them even though we technically don't have to. Also, CableCARD users receive the best support, far better than STB and DVR owners.

People who call in for support often mention having obtained our number from an agent who "let it slip" as if they have a number they are not supposed to. Actually, they should all be giving you our number. I always ask customers if they called me directly or if they were transferred to me. If they were transferred, I give them our direct number and tell them to come directly to us for CableCARD or tuning adapter issues.

I heard someone say they had to talk to a lot of people who didn't know what they are doing with CableCARDs before finally getting transferred to the CableCARD support line where they finally got help. First, realize that CableCARD support is an elite support group. We are referred to a "mentors" and handle FCC complaints and even issues received by Corporate Offices of the President. The reason we do CableCARD support is because it was once a tightly FCC regulated product, and needed to be handled very delicately. So the elite "mentors" in the company were assigned to handle anything CableCARD related. This is why when you talk to us, you are amazed at how great we are at helping. We can walk you through every screen on your Tivo or Windows Media Center and we know what every error (both ours and not ours) means as well. We can tell from asking you a few questions what the problem is based on the symptoms of the problem. We are highly specialized.

Our phone number for support is separate from the main "all in one" number that lets you talk to normal video support, internet support, phone support, or billing. We have our own separate number that comes directly to our department without menus. This is why people get lost. People are so used to calling that one number for everything, but that number is not for CableCARD support. This is why you get transferred around until you find someone who has our number. The truth of the matter is, all you have to do is open our public website, click the search, and type "CableCARD support number" and it is the first result. But instead of doing this, people call the regular number and end up speaking to someone who has never heard of a CableCARD. Eventually, you get someone who can get you to us. And guess what... odds are he found our department by going to our public website and typing "CableCARD support number".

The reason that the other agents and even field techs do not know much about CableCARDs is because of how rare they actually are compared to cable company boxes. That tech that comes out has probably only seen a CableCARD once every 1 or 2 years... or maybe never at all. We have field techs call us all the time saying this is their first CableCARD call. We walk the techs through troubleshooting and they become our eyes and hands at the scene, just like when you call us, you become our eyes and hands.

Our department is always praised and shocks customers by how much we know. A customer feels relieved to hear me say, "Scroll down to Tasks and Settings... click on TV... click on TV signal... click on Set Up TV signal" and then we walk them through each screen as they are seeing it (Yes, I do this from memory, I don't read a paper or list). I ask the person, "Are you using this with a Tivo or another device?" because most CableCARD users have a Tivo. The ones that don't use Tivo often say, "Another device...." and dont elaborate, feeling that no one will know what an InfiniTV or HD Homerun Prime is. So I ask what kind of device, and they say, "Its for a computer... It's called a Ceton." And I can't help but be amused at how bashful you guys are at mentioning it to me. I then say, "Is it the internal or external version of the InfiniTV?" and the customer is floored by the fact that I know exactly what he's talking about. Also, as I take customers through the Tivo menus, they are always amazed that I know whats on each screen they click to.

Odds are I've paired at least one of your CableCARDs, namely because our department supports then entire United States for our cable company's footprint.

 

[poit57]

I got an email from Silicon Dust yesterday for a Kickstarter campaign to fund a new software DVR solution. From my understanding, they are still working on getting certification to support protected content for their cablecard tuners. They mention a $30 per year subscription fee, but this sounds like it will be a good solution if Windows Media Center is not included in Windows 10.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1275320038/hdhomerun-dvr-the-dvr-re-imagined

Edit: I took this for granted as a current HDHomeRun user, but it looks like this probably wouldn't support non-HDHomeRun tuners, which I have 3 of on my current WMC setup.

 

[Daniel514bama]

I created an account here just to say thanks to IcarusPony for all the great info! I've talked to you or someone in your group a couple of times when I first started with cable cards.

You confirmed my biggest concern with the future of WMC/CableCard being the guide data. Once MS decides to stop providing that the game is over and I'll be looking for another solution. I do not like Tivo's subscription model nor cable box rentals, so I'll be looking for something else or just cut the cord on cable TV. Hopefully by then there will be some better options with live sports from ESPN without a cable subscription.

 

[oldpueblo]

Welp. Frequently Asked Questions: Windows 10 - Microsoft Community

"Is Media Center supported in Windows 10?

No. Persons who need to use Media Center should consider carefully before upgrading from their previous version of Windows. The Windows 10 upgrade will automatically remove any installations of Media Center."

 

[poit57]

Welp. Frequently Asked Questions: Windows 10 - Microsoft Community

"Is Media Center supported in Windows 10?

No. Persons who need to use Media Center should consider carefully before upgrading from their previous version of Windows. The Windows 10 upgrade will automatically remove any installations of Media Center."

To be fair, that still doesn't definitively answer the question about WMC. The first line of the wiki article says that this applies to Windows Insider Program and Windows 10 Technical Preview.

Support of WMC in Windows 8 wasn't announced and made available in previews until one of the later builds. If Microsoft truly wants universal adaptation of the new operating system, I think it's silly that they would just write off a group of loyal customer like this and force them to either abandon a very useful feature or remain locked into an older OS to keep the feature intact.