Windows Phone Is Dead Beyond Resurrection

[kr33m0]

Ha, I should have read this convo first before going off on my own rant! https://forums.windowscentral.com/windows-10-mobile/464536-microsoft-owes-us-have-stuck-them-since-windows-phone-7-even-beyond.html#post3700259

 

[Sargon Aelther]

These "WP is dead threads" started a good 5 years ago and WP (even though not nearly as much) is still around. And another 2 years from now there will be more "WP is dead" threads started (although those might be accurate lol).

Yes and 5 years ago I ignored them. Why? Because Devices were being actively released, especially Lumias, which were always the "Samsungs of the WP". They were also being marketed and boy was Nokia making some great ads.
There have been little to no ads about W10M, on the other hand, and we've not had any major Windows Phone releases, except for that 1 acer or whatever. Apps and market share were also SLOWLY growing. Now the only news we get are apps being pulled (even by Microsoft lol) and market share is pretty much under 1%.

It's not dead until the support lifecycle ends. This could be as long as 2019:

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us...=PN&alpha=Windows 10 Mobile&Filter=FilterNO#;

Microsoft will continue to provide security updates until these dates.

I wouldn't expect new features... so it is dead in the way Windows 7 is dead. Still usable and serviced, just no longer being significantly advanced.

So now we're just arguing semantics. If some of you really hate the word dead, let's call it "life support", I don't care. They were preaching this whole OneCore thing and now they've separated W10M from the main Windows development branch. We're at the "WP7.8 part" or the "start menu part of Windows RT" if you will. It's super clear that this OS has no future, just like the two mentioned before, and the only meagre updates we're getting is because they're legally bound to support them for some years.

In WM6.5.3 Pro to WP7 days WM was still very usable (Heck I skipped that garbage WP7 entirely because of this), but it was still dead. The reason it was usable, was because it was desktop-like (which is what droid copied). Store removals didn't matter, because everything could be installed locally. It was open, so the support from XDA was huge. Heck Google Maps still (partially) works on my HTC HD2!
W10M, on the other hand, is at the mercy of Microsoft and the store. Which is yet another reason I'm moving to droid... I HATE being at the mercy of a store.

And the difference between Windows 7 and W10M is that at least Windows 7 has market share, GOOD REPUTATION and (Desktop) apps. W10M has none of these.

Reputation was actually my main point of my rant. Even if they do reboot yet again, WHO'S GOING TO TRUST THEM AT THIS POINT? Fool me thrice...

 

[fatclue_98]

Yes and 5 years ago I ignored them. Why? Because Devices were being actively released, especially Lumias, which were always the "Samsungs of the WP". They were also being marketed and boy was Nokia making some great ads.
There have been little to no ads about W10M, on the other hand, and we've not had any major Windows Phone releases, except for that 1 acer or whatever. Apps and market share were also SLOWLY growing. Now the only news we get are apps being pulled (even by Microsoft lol) and market share is pretty much under 1%.




So now we're just arguing semantics. If some of you really hate the word dead, let's call it "life support", I don't care. They were preaching this whole OneCore thing and now they've separated W10M from the main Windows development branch. We're at the "WP7.8 part" or the "start menu part of Windows RT" if you will. It's super clear that this OS has no future, just like the two mentioned before, and the only meagre updates we're getting is because they're legally bound to support them for some years.

In WM6.5.3 Pro to WP7 days WM was still very usable (Heck I skipped that garbage WP7 entirely because of this), but it was still dead. The reason it was usable, was because it was desktop-like (which is what droid copied). Store removals didn't matter, because everything could be installed locally. It was open, so the support from XDA was huge. Heck Google Maps still (partially) works on my HTC HD2!
W10M, on the other hand, is at the mercy of Microsoft and the store. Which is yet another reason I'm moving to droid... I HATE being at the mercy of a store.

And the difference between Windows 7 and W10M is that at least Windows 7 has market share, GOOD REPUTATION and (Desktop) apps. W10M has none of these.

Reputation was actually my main point of my rant. Even if they do reboot yet again, WHO'S GOING TO TRUST THEM AT THIS POINT? Fool me thrice...

Look, whether Windows is dead, alive or a zombie doesn't matter. Smartphones are not cheap and a consumer should do a modicum of research before purchasing. If your favorite apps are not available then that's a red flag. Technology moves at a dizzying pace so what works today may not work tomorrow. Not so much because the OS or the hardware but sometimes the apps themselves. Security flaws expose poor execution leading to wholesale changes to browsers, email clients,etc. If APIs don't change then Androids running Eclair could still work today.

Microsoft is rebooting again and WP8 has gone EOL. Considering it was released in 2012, what did you expect? Ice Cream Sandwich came out about a year earlier but how many apps still work on ICS? For that matter, how many Jelly Bean apps work? None of the Microsoft apps run on less than Lollipop which is only 3 years old. A major reason I'm not using my Passport anymore is because the Android Runtime is stuck at 4.3 rendering the phone nearly useless for apps.

We'd all love to keep our favorite phones for years and years and continually update them but that's a pipe dream. The argument usually drifts to iPhones and their legendary support. Yes, the iPhone 4 will finally meet the grim reaper this year with the release of iOS 11 but that doesn't mean they work well with anything past iOS 7. They work, but it's not a pleasant experience and most Apple apps require iOS 9 these days. A little perspective is sometimes in order.


Sent from my HP Elite x3 on mTalk

 

[Ray Picone]

Its funny when the iPhone came out in 2007 apps were not even a consideration really. Then they took on a life of their own. I can comfortably work with my Windows phone with the lack of apps for the most part. I can still access my credit union through a saved tile that all I have to do is tap on and I can see my account balances and make transfers from one account to another. I can pay bills, the only thing I can't do is deposit a check to my account which I can do on my Android phone. The same with my Honeywell Thermostat, I have a tile saved that lets me control my home thermostat from my windows phone just like the app I have on my Galaxy Phone. I wish that the Windows phone had all the apps that my Galaxy phone has but in many ways I prefer using my Windows phone over the Galaxy because it just has better battery life, its easier to make calls on, easier to text on and easier to email on. It works better in the car with my Bluetooth. I get to have my text messages read to me and can respond by voice back to them.

My Lumia 640 doesn't heat up like my Galaxy S7 does and I really hope Microsoft stays in the Mobile OS and makes the phone work like the desktop so I can access all the same programs on my phone that I do on my computer.

The tile format on the phone is still a great idea. I like it better than widgets and icons. Live tiles are so useful. I can see my stock prices at a glance from the live tiles. I can see the weather for the next 3 days at a glance.

I like that I can voice text a question and the "?" mark is put there automatically not so on iOS or Android.

 

[PerfectReign]

FWIW, my Microsoft rep and I were discussing Iphone vs Android vs Windows Mobile yesterday. We both have an Iphone 7 and were discussing how much better the tiled interface on WM is. I will still use my 950xl until it dies as a work phone.

 

[John Christopoulos]

It's not dead until the support lifecycle ends. This could be as long as 2019:

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us...=PN&alpha=Windows 10 Mobile&Filter=FilterNO#;

Microsoft will continue to provide security updates until these dates.

I wouldn't expect new features... so it is dead in the way Windows 7 is dead. Still usable and serviced, just no longer being significantly advanced.

Windows Mobile 8.1 was not updated after Denim. So it's life was shortened by Microsoft. An eraly reboot

 

[Sargon Aelther]

None of the Microsoft apps run on less than Lollipop which is only 3 years old. A major reason I'm not using my Passport anymore is because the Android Runtime is stuck at 4.3 rendering the phone nearly useless for apps.

We'd all love to keep our favorite phones for years and years and continually update them but that's a pipe dream. The argument usually drifts to iPhones and their legendary support. Yes, the iPhone 4 will finally meet the grim reaper this year with the release of iOS 11 but that doesn't mean they work well with anything past iOS 7. They work, but it's not a pleasant experience and most Apple apps require iOS 9 these days. A little perspective is sometimes in order.

Eeeem? Office apps work fine on 4.4 and up. Lolipop is 5. Outlook runs on 4.1. Office Mobile runs on 4.0... So on and so forth.
Skype requires Android 4.0.3. Does Skype run on WP 8.1? No it does not. WP8.1 is a lot newer, but Microsoft doesn't care.
It's not even about OS updates, it's about NOT PULLING APPS FOR NO REASON, especially the offline ones! With droid, even if somebody decided to pull an app, you could just sideload an older version and keep using it. On WP you're at the mercy of a store, even if you paid for said app.

Yes iPhones have great native support, however you can also easily flash a newer OS on droid, same way all those 6+ year old "Unsupported" PCs run Windows 10 just fine. The limitations of WP make it super anti-consumer. It becomes obsolete-by-design much faster than iOS or Android.

iPhones have long apple support, Android has great modder support. Windows Phone has neither. It's literally the worst of both worlds in every sense.
Mind you, it wasn't always like this. Before that pile of (Poop Emoji) WP7, WM6.5 and older had great modder support too.

And as you probably realised by now: Yes I do love Windows Mobile and hate Windows Phone. The reason I stayed with Microsoft for so long was because WP8.1 and W10M showed signs that it would become a power-user OS once more. A true PC in your pocket. But then... All development, support and hardware production just stopped... Microsoft suddenly abandoned it completely. So now I have wasted years supporting Windows Phone that went nowhere, when I could have jumped to Droid the moment Microsoft unveiled WP7. Android IS the true successor to Windows Mobile 6.5 Pro. WP7+ is just an abomination that doesn't know who it's trying to target.

Its funny when the iPhone came out in 2007 apps were not even a consideration really. Then they took on a life of their own. I can comfortably work with my Windows phone with the lack of apps for the most part. I can still access my credit union through a saved tile that all I have to do is tap on and I can see my account balances and make transfers from one account to another. I can pay bills, the only thing I can't do is deposit a check to my account which I can do on my Android phone. The same with my Honeywell Thermostat, I have a tile saved that lets me control my home thermostat from my windows phone just like the app I have on my Galaxy Phone. I wish that the Windows phone had all the apps that my Galaxy phone has but in many ways I prefer using my Windows phone over the Galaxy because it just has better battery life, its easier to make calls on, easier to text on and easier to email on. It works better in the car with my Bluetooth. I get to have my text messages read to me and can respond by voice back to them.

My Lumia 640 doesn't heat up like my Galaxy S7 does and I really hope Microsoft stays in the Mobile OS and makes the phone work like the desktop so I can access all the same programs on my phone that I do on my computer.

The tile format on the phone is still a great idea. I like it better than widgets and icons. Live tiles are so useful. I can see my stock prices at a glance from the live tiles. I can see the weather for the next 3 days at a glance.

I like that I can voice text a question and the "?" mark is put there automatically not so on iOS or Android.

I disagree about apps not being considered a reality in 2007! Every other OS had apps, including Windows Mobile. Why did apple add app support later? Because of the pressure. People and developers wanted apps.

If your lumia 640 works great for you, then good for you. Please use whatever works for you, but at the same time let me just say that your arguments remind me of someone trying to defend a Chromebook. It may not have many apps, but it does have a browser. Pinning a bunch of favourites to my desktop works just as well as any of your Windows apps.
I could not live with a chromebook, so I can't live with a Windows Phone in its current state either.

Windows is such a powerful OS so it baffles me how after all this time Windows Phone can still be so locked down and limited, especially since old Windows Mobile was so powerful. Windows and Windows Phones have NOTHING in common other than name and tiles. Windows Phone doesn't even support multi-window multitasking. The file explorer is a joke and there is no default app setting. Lack of default app setting caused so much frustration to me over the years. That setting was present in old Windows Mobile and it's there in Android obviously.

For example browsing network drives is VERY important to me. There are a few apps that let you do it on WP, but they do not let you stream any media from them. One app literally says that this is a limitation of WP, not the app. Stuff like this frustrates me so much. I need my smartphone to be a PC in my pocket, not an "Edge-pad" (Chrome-book of phones).

What I also find strange is that people who still defend Windows Phone have very basic needs (nothing wrong with that) and defend WP for being so basic, but the so called "Surface Phone" that they all dream of, is being described as an expensive power-user device. Huh? I thought you liked your simplicity? You say you don't need all those features... Eh whatever.

The closest thing to a Surface Phone any of us is going to get is any Android Phone, especially the Note series. Apply Launcher 10 (Total W10M copy, with all W10Ms advantages and limitations lol) or Square Home 2 (Much more advanced, but complicated to set up. Looks horrible by default).

Also I do not buy into all those claims that bash Android performance while praising Windows Phones. From my experience with L920, L950XL, L830, L735 (from work) and L650 (from work) the experience is acceptable to terrible. It was never great. L650 is always laggy, even after a factory reset and every single user that returned it for an iPhone 6s has said something negative about it. I've handled hundreds of these phones. My own L950XL is laggy, battery lasts maybe 18 hours on standby, whatsapp often causes it to freeze / reboot, the camera vibrates (this is the most ridiculous bug ever) and it sometimes start lagging for no reason. I've heard a lot of negatives comments about the 950 XL. Some say the regular 950 was a lot better, but I wouldn't know.

So while I've been handing out iPhones to my users, I've myself been using Samsung galaxy J5 (2016) as work phone. A low-to-mid range device. And you know what? Lasts maybe 1.5 days to two days with considerable to heavy use. Outlook app also works perfectly (Outlook on WP sometimes has issues with Microsoft exchange lol), I can work with my network drives very well and streaming works like a charm and I've got my default app setting. The only reason I still carry my Lumia around is for Whatsapp and Music... Even then I'm wondering why. My friend keeps telling me to move it to my work Samsung too, because of all the crashes on WP and Groove is also present on Droid.

Heck, thanks to Square Home 2 and a White Icon pack, even all my tiles are transparent, something we had to beg of Microsoft and even then they hardly delivered...
I just can't wait to repalce me crappy L950XL with Note 8 on 15th...

 

[vEEP pEEP]

Should have kept the Nokia name on the phones and used Nokia developer to help direct their future. MS could do better by listening.

IF MS supports Android - why would you continue to use MS apps - why not Google apps? Do they think they will lose what little market share they have in that area? I want integration with my ecosystem.

 

[Sargon Aelther]

IF MS supports Android - why would you continue to use MS apps - why not Google apps? Do they think they will lose what little market share they have in that area? I want integration with my ecosystem.

Well I use both on my droid, depending on which one's better. I use Outlook, OneNote and Office because that's what I use on my PC and I find them better than Gmail and Google docs.
I use Google, Google Translate and Google maps instead of Bing services, because I find those better.

I also use OneDrive instead of Google drive because I have 1 TB from my O365 sub.

 

[finbaar]

Droid is a brand name used by Verizon. Are you all Verizon customers?

 

[Sargon Aelther]

Droid is a brand name used by Verizon. Are you all Verizon customers?

Eh? I use Droid 'cause it's shorter than Android. Simple as that. I'm also from Europe, so I don't use Verizon. Even if I was in the US I'd NEVER give my money to any CDMA-based carrier.

 

[fatclue_98]

Droid is a brand name used by Verizon. Are you all Verizon customers?

When you go to Staples do you ask where are the repositionable notes or do you ask for Post-It Notes?

 

[anon(50597)]

When you go to Staples do you ask where are the repositionable notes or do you ask for Post-It Notes?

I'm going to ask for repositional notes next time just to see the look on their face.

 

[fatclue_98]

I'm going to ask for repositional notes next time just to see the look on their face.

You better have your camera out, that will be a YouTube sensation.

 

[PerfectReign]

Droid is a brand name used by Verizon. Are you all Verizon customers?

That is probably not the droid you were looking for.

Sent from mTalk

 

[nate0]

That is probably not the droid you were looking for.

Sent from mTalk

I see that.

 

[plarusa85]

Windows phone can"t be dead, judging by the number of comments here. Plus the trouble for me is that I much prefer it to Android and IOS which I also experiment with.

None of the other so called superior platforms support coding an app which can run unchanged on various form factors. It may not be apparent, but the reboots were needed to get there.

 

[tyyoungtyler]

None of the other so called superior platforms support coding an app which can run unchanged on various form factors. It may not be apparent, but the reboots were needed to get there.

Why does this matter though? To me the end user why should I care if it’s using the same code or not? If I can use app A on my phone and get the same functionality on my laptop with app Ab that has different code why should I care? Does it matter that much that there are apps on this platform that can run across multiple devices if the same functionality is replicated elsewhere while using platforms with better dev support, a wider array of apps, and more consistent hardware releases?

 

[Sargon Aelther]

Oh yeah, a handful of comments on a WINDOWS-FOCUSED forum. Windows Phone market share must be massive!
There are over 2 billion Smartphone users, 99.6% of Smartphones are iOS and Android. How many use Windows Phone? A few hundred thousand at most? That's a needle in a haystack.

UWP is still very limiting and cannot reach the power of Windows Win32 or Android. Also the ability to run UWP on multiple device form factors hasn't conjured up Google Maps, or any other essentials apps. That's not what matters, especially not to users. They don't know and don't need to know how it works under the hood.

Windows Phone has been separated from the main Windows Branch. It's at the same place that WP7 was during the development of 7.8. Dead (won't get WP8), but still "supported" for legal and contractual reasons. I mean there haven't been any new lumias for 2 years. All the updates are bug fixes. Wake up, man!

 

[anon(50597)]

Windows phone can"t be dead, judging by the number of comments here. Plus the trouble for me is that I much prefer it to Android and IOS which I also experiment with.

None of the other so called superior platforms support coding an app which can run unchanged on various form factors. It may not be apparent, but the reboots were needed to get there.

Then you better be prepared to put your money where your mouth is, so to speak.