WP8 store and the stealing of apps

[John20212]

Microsoft needs to put in safeguards so that nobody can completely pull an app from the store and deprive people who already bought it (or downloaded it for free apps) from using it.

Nothing short of a court order should be sufficient to steal apps from people who bought them. And in case of a court order people who paid for them should be fully refunded when the app is pulled without having to ask for a refund.

 

[PB_H]

You mean when it's no longer published.
You're getting into a legal landmine, you can buy a book and have it for a week or years and if you loose
it and it's no longer published do you expect them to publish it if you can't find another copy ? No, that would be absurd.

I did find out that backed up apps that were no longer published when I reset my phone reinstalled, that's why I always backup
an app when I install a new one. I may not get them back if I accidently delete it, but if I reset my phone I will.

 

[iamtim]

I'm pretty certain that the T&Cs to which you agree when you purchase an app (and I'm also referring to those you purchase for $0.00) state that the app can be pulled from the Store at any time. It's kind-of hard to provide legal protection to prevent something to which you explicitly agreed.

I wouldn't be surprised if the legalese actually said that your license for the software (since I'm pretty sure with Microsoft you never actually own any software, you're only purchasing a license to use it) expires should an app get pulled from the Store. I think I'm going to have to research that.

 

[marcomura]

This is one of the worst thing of the WP ecosystem.
Without a way to backup apps, preventing you to redownload an app you paid is literally a crime.

 

[PB_H]

This is one of the worst thing of the WP ecosystem.
Without a way to backup apps, preventing you to redownload an app you paid is literally a crime.

You can back up apps, go to backup in system/settings and save stuff the cloud. I've deleted plenty of apps I've paid for
and I've installed them for free when I decided to reinstall them, what am I missing in this equation?
BTW it's a use license, you don't own them.

 

[tgp]

You can back up apps, go to backup in system/settings and save stuff the cloud. I've deleted plenty of apps I've paid for
and I've installed them for free when I decided to reinstall them, what am I missing in this equation?
BTW it's a use license, you don't own them.

But isn't it actually reinstalled from the Store? Microsoft checks your account and sees you've already paid for the app, and it will be reinstalled. I'm not sure on this, but I don't believe an app will be reinstalled if it's no longer published in the Store.

 

[PB_H]

But isn't it actually reinstalled from the Store? Microsoft checks your account and sees you've already paid for the app, and it will be reinstalled. I'm not sure on this, but I don't believe an app will be reinstalled if it's no longer published in the Store.

True and Not true I have nokiaupdates app, it hasn't been published for well over a month. 10 days ago I reset my phone to factory
settings and I backup my phone after I install new apps so at some point before or after it was last published I saved it along with all my other apps
to the cloud/ SkyDrive. So it's not from the store I guess but it is saved.
When I finished resetting the phone, it populated my list of apps along with several other apps ( 1 more that I know of) that are no longer published. Apps like
Nokia Camera & Nokia Reading which are either not available in my region ( Nokia Reading) or "This app is not available for your phone" like Nokia Camera (I have an 810) stayed at pending so I had to use a Wi-Fi proxy to reinstall those but apps that are no longer published like nokiaupdates that I had saved way back, reinstalled.

I contacted the publisher of nokiaupdates and he said it had been pulled from the store as a free app awhile ago
but resubmitted as a paid app perhaps that's why it reinstalled, because it was not a paid app and when I first
installed it on August 11 it was only a free app at the time

 

[tgp]

Not true I have nokiaupdates app, it hasn't been published for several months, 10 days ago I reset my phone to factory
settings and I backup my phone after I install new apps so at some point after it was last published I saved it along with all my other apps
When I finished resisting the phone it populated my list of apps along with several other apps that are no longer published. Apps like
Nokia Camera, Nokia Reading which are either not available in my region ( Nokia Reading) or "This app is not available for your phone" like Nokia Camera
(I have an 810) stayed at pending so I had to use a Wi-Fi proxy to reinstall those but apps that are no longer published like nokiaupdates that I had saved way back, reinstalled.

OK thanks, I just learned something!

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

[marcomura]

You can back up apps, go to backup in system/settings and save stuff the cloud. I've deleted plenty of apps I've paid for
and I've installed them for free when I decided to reinstall them, what am I missing in this equation?

You are not backing up your apps, you are backing up your apps list. The list of the apps you have installed.
This doesn't allow you to reinstall an app after it has been pulled from the store. This is what you're missing in that equation.

BTW it's a use license, you don't own them.

Yes, and I expect to have paid for a lifetime use license, not a license that can expire tomorrow.

 

[jhoff80]

OK thanks, I just learned something!

Yeah, you 'learned something' that is entirely false.

 

[PB_H]

You are not backing up your apps, you are backing up your apps list. The list of the apps you have installed.
This doesn't allow you to reinstall an app after it has been pulled from the store. This is what you're missing in that equation.

Yes, and I expect to have paid for a lifetime use license, not a license that can expire tomorrow.

And it's like when you stream a movie that is a use license and it is for a limited amount of time and you don't get to see it a lifetime
I "get it" that you'd like it for a lifetime but that's not what you are paying for -apparently. Time to read the license I guess.

 

[PB_H]

yeah, you 'learned something' that is entirely false.

oh.

 

[link68759]

Apps pulled from the store cannot be reinstalled. Period. Apps can be hidden from the store, and hidden apps can be reinstalled.

I have the 820, I have xaps saved to the SD card. You can't install a xap without internet- it won't let you. When you connect to the internet, WP checks your xap against the store. If it has been pulled, it will not install.

Which is complete BS, btw. I understand not hosting pulled apps in the store, but I backed it up myself and am prevented from using even my own personal backup. Dumb.

 

[John20212]

And it's like when you stream a movie that is a use license and it is for a limited amount of time and you don't get to see it a lifetime
I "get it" that you'd like it for a lifetime but that's not what you are paying for -apparently. Time to read the license I guess.

Streaming a movie is something completely different to actually buying a piece of software. And streaming a movie is not really a term, you can either rent the digital movie in which case you have access to it for a certain time period (e.g. 24 hours) or you can buy a digital movie in which case I would assume that I own it as if I bought it on DVD, i.e. I can watch it whenever I want for as long as I want.
When you buy a piece of software or an app you are buying it not renting it; in legal terms with Microsoft software you are buying a perpetual license to use the software.

 

[John20212]

....
Yes, and I expect to have paid for a lifetime use license, not a license that can expire tomorrow.

^^this; in other words with most Microsoft software you are getting a perpetual license to use it (e.g. office software [not 365 version]). I haven't read the WP app purchase license terms but I would expect that I am getting a perpetual license to use the app and not a license that can be revoked at any time for any reason whatsoever; actually based on UK consumer protection legislation terms like that ^[bold] would most likely not be enforceable, in other words if challenged the court would most likely strike them down.

 

[John20212]

You mean when it's no longer published.
You're getting into a legal landmine, you can buy a book and have it for a week or years and if you loose
it and it's no longer published do you expect them to publish it if you can't find another copy ? No, that would be absurd.
.......

You can't be comparing tangible and intangible personal property, each fall under different legal rules. Moreover you own the book, with software you often have a perpetual license to use it. Since Microsoft does not provide an easy way for users to create their own backup of the app install files that can then be used anytime in the future under the license you own, then Microsoft is responsible for maintaining access to those install files for users that own a license. They can't simply remove access to the files for users that have license to use them, just because they no longer wish to sell the app to new users.

 

[John20212]

Apps pulled from the store cannot be reinstalled. Period. Apps can be hidden from the store, and hidden apps can be reinstalled.

I have the 820, I have xaps saved to the SD card. You can't install a xap without internet- it won't let you. When you connect to the internet, WP checks your xap against the store. If it has been pulled, it will not install.

Which is complete BS, btw. I understand not hosting pulled apps in the store, but I backed it up myself and am prevented from using even my own personal backup. Dumb.

Completely agree, I would have no problem with pulling apps from the store if there was a way to have your own copy of the apps you own and then if you need to, to simply reinstall them from your own backup. The problem is Microsoft is all too happy to kill apps without a way for people who own them to be able to reinstall them. Which is completely unacceptable.

 

[iamtim]

Yes, and I expect to have paid for a lifetime use license, not a license that can expire tomorrow.

You should read the legalese. The license can expire at any time as dictated by the app publisher. This is what you agreed to by purchasing and/or downloading the app. It doesn't really matter what you expect, that's the terms of the license.

If that's not OK with you, your only option is to not purchase and/or download apps.

EDIT: Note I'm making no judgment as to whether that's good or bad or whatever. It is what it is.

 

[tgp]

You are not backing up your apps, you are backing up your apps list. The list of the apps you have installed.
This doesn't allow you to reinstall an app after it has been pulled from the store. This is what you're missing in that equation.

Ok I was thoroughly confused! I've factory reset and restored my WPs plenty of times, but as far as I know I didn't have any apps that are no longer in the store, so I had no experience. Your answer is what I expected to be correct (obviously, it's essentially what I posted earlier), but until I had other confirmation I had no reason to believe otherwise. Thanks for clearing it up for me!

 

[iamtim]

The problem is Microsoft is all too happy to kill apps without a way for people who own them to be able to reinstall them.

First off, you don't own the app; you only have a license to use it. Secondly, if you read the legalese it's not Microsoft who kills the apps; that's totally on the app publisher. The license exists as long as the publisher publishes the app. Once they pull it, the license ends. Microsoft simply acts as a... distribution center of sorts, with their own license to use and distribute from the publisher.