x86 Surface Phones?

[Gamely Lounges]

Exactly, the uncancelled 850 is going to be released next year, and as for the Surface phone - if it happens it's probably gonna be business oriented as Dan said so we shouldn't expect it to sport a 20MP PureView camera.

Somehow the idea that the "surface phone" will be a mid-tier business phone seems very unlikely to me. So far the surface devices have all been high end and well designed flagship devices. Why would they change that formula now?

 

[jeffoffline]

For anyone doubting the possibility or affordability of an x86 windows phone just google "asus zenphone 2". "64-bit Intel 2.3GHz Quad Core processor with 4GB RAM and 64GB storage" for $299.

 

[pankaj981]

Lets say it averages the maximum of 5v 1A. If it had the 950's battery it would only last 20 minutes. Obviously it will last a little longer, but the components were designed with the expectation that the power source would last forever at the draw it needs. Any smartphone will need to have much better battery management in order to be useful, and this is not a software-only problem.

I am not doubting your calculation but my V8P w/ connected standby gets 2 days standby time, and it comes w/ an Atom processor. There are better brains who have figured out a way to use Atom chipsets in Android smartphones.

 

[kjmcintosh]

The surface phone would be a true flag ship. I would call the 950 and the xl flag ship business phones

 

[Indistinguishable]

Somehow the idea that the "surface phone" will be a mid-tier business phone seems very unlikely to me. So far the surface devices have all been high end and well designed flagship devices. Why would they change that formula now?

I'm not entirely disagreeing with your logic. But one reason they may change the formula is because it's a different industry. Mobile devices, even with continuum, are not laptops.

We're crossing into new territory. A new design team taking over with the Panay, a new mobile market approach with Nadella, and a new kind of chip. Rubino mentioned that he expected price to be a factor in the development of a phone for business/enterprise. I'm not 100% sure how things are going to pan out. But I could see it being a mid range device.

Also, Panay seemed to hint that they'd be keeping the Lumia brand for mobile devices. Not using the Surface brand. So I don't think Surface devices are a great indicator of what to expect.

 

[pankaj981]

Mid tier or not, if they even release a phone around $300 that can run x86 programs (my Intel Compute Stick reference) along with the mobile counterpart...it will get enough momentum for OEMs to start experimenting. 2GB RAM, 720P screen (cost savings), LTE w/ 16GB onboard storage (WIM Boot + mobile) plus expanded storage running on an x86 chipset does look achievable. Kinda best of both platforms (mobile/PC) for a cheaper price.

 

[grahamf]

Mid tier or not, if they even release a phone around $300 that can run x86 programs (my Intel Compute Stick reference) along with the mobile counterpart...it will get enough momentum for OEMs to start experimenting. 2GB RAM, 720P screen (cost savings), LTE w/ 16GB onboard storage (WIM Boot + mobile) plus expanded storage running on an x86 chipset does look achievable. Kinda best of both platforms (mobile/PC) for a cheaper price.

I'm not so certain that's possible at that price point. It will still effectively be running the full version of windows, with the full version of all applications. Users may be installing Norton, Free Downloader Pro, BitTorrent, and all sorts of applications that eat up CPU resources and don't have a proper efficiency mode. The Intel phones you are thinking of have only been made available with ported Linux and Android distros with erratic application support. A $300 Windows 10 Intel phone would have too many compromises to make it useful, especially when it will be expected to have Continuum. To be honest it's like the "Hololens will cost $600" mantra all over again.

Now to think of it, an Intel mid-range phone is pretty pointless if not outright stupid. An Intel Windows phone WILL be expected to run full Windows applications, ranging from Office to Photoshop to Crysis. That kind of necessitates it to be considered a top-of-the line phone, not a half-hearted experiment priced cheap so that people check it out. What logical reason is there to make an Intel phone that outperforms the 950 but then make whatever sacrifices needed to bring it down to $300? The Surface line is intended to be commonly sold, not an experiment. Spend the extra $200-300 needed for higher quality components and a decent battery.

I expect that if it does happen, The Intel Surface Phone will not launch for one or two years and will be considered a flagship much more powerful than the Lumia 950, and will have a year or two of Windows 10 updates and optimizations to make it feasible.

 

[Matatu]

Yeah, i'd have to agree. If a new phone came out in the first quarter of 2016, it'd probably be mid-end. The 830 will be about due for a new iteration by then. The 550 and 950 will be three months old in February, way too soon for a high end device.

As far as i know, microsoft will not close the gap (soon) between the 6xx and 9xx. They are worried about cannibalization of 9xx , if there is a midrange device with close specs. First refresh next year will be the 6xx and 4xx.

It may be placed even higher on the price scale all things considered.

(and funnily enough, the mask being worn in my avatar is named the "Matatu")

Even higher price point would be suicide. The interest on the 950 is low, there are only a few carriers worldwide, who ordered in big numbers. Most of the others are just ordering as much, as they think they can sell to geeks and enthusiasts.

Matatus are taxi busses in africa

 

[Ed Boland]

Source? That's pretty different from the May timeframe that Rubino has given.

A guy I know who works for Microsoft. He's told me about the Surface phone coming in January on at least a couple occasions. He was dead on about the new Surface being waaaay more than anyone was expecting at the Oct 6th event. I think he knows a little something.. I told him last time I saw him (about a week ago) that I was thinking about getting an iPhone 6S Plus instead of a 950XL... His response was "please, just give me three months.. Wait for the Surface phone this January before you decide"

You guys don't have to take my word for it... I'm just repeating what I've heard from him. He said they wanted to release it now, but are waiting for Intel to catch up on their hardware end. He said "they're not waiting on us (Microsoft), we are ready!"

 

[Indistinguishable]

A guy I know who works for Microsoft. He's told me about the Surface phone coming in January on at least a couple occasions. He was dead on about the new Surface being waaaay more than anyone was expecting at the Oct 6th event. I think he knows a little something.. I told him last time I saw him (about a week ago) that I was thinking about getting an iPhone 6S Plus instead of a 950XL... His response was "please, just give me three months.. Wait for the Surface phone this January before you decide"

You guys don't have to take my word for it... I'm just repeating what I've heard from him. He said they wanted to release it now, but are waiting for Intel to catch up on their hardware end. He said "they're not waiting on us (Microsoft), we are ready!"

I believe that your source told you that. It's just so counter intuitive that Microsoft would launch their self-proclaimed flagship device, then announce another high end device a mere two months later. It kinda feeds my thinking that the Lumia "Surface Phone" will be without many of the flagship features that high end lumia's are known for. High end camera, high end display, high end processor, etc... The only way i could see it reasonably happening is for it to be a mid-end, enterprise focused phone.

And if i'm wrong, and it is a full fledged Surface phone with high end specs...

 

[Indistinguishable]

As far as i know, microsoft will not close the gap (soon) between the 6xx and 9xx. They are worried about cannibalization of 9xx , if there is a midrange device with close specs. First refresh next year will be the 6xx and 4xx.

Right, still a midrange offering & successor to the 830. Even it isn't in the 8xx naming scheme.

Leaked render allegedly shows Microsoft 'Saana' phone for 2016 | Windows Central

 

[Ed Boland]

I believe that your source told you that. It's just so counter intuitive that Microsoft would launch their self-proclaimed flagship device, then announce another high end device a mere two months later. It kinda feeds my thinking that the Lumia "Surface Phone" will be without many of the flagship features that high end lumia's are known for. High end camera, high end display, high end processor, etc... The only way i could see it reasonably happening is for it to be a mid-end, enterprise focused phone.

And if i'm wrong, and it is a full fledged Surface phone with high end specs...

http://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/give_it_to_me_stephen_colbert.gif

lol @the GIF^^^

One thing he did clarify; it definitely won't be a "Lumia Surface phone" Lumia and Surface are two different brands. There will be Lumias, and then this will be the first "Surface phone".

 

[horseybob]

if they want Enterprise beta testers, let me know! I've used MS since DOS 1.0; would be happy to sign an NDA. I've signed several with them in the past for some amusing things. :wink:

 

[Indistinguishable]

lol @the GIF^^^

One thing he did clarify; it definitely won't be a "Lumia Surface phone" Lumia and Surface are two different brands. There will be Lumias, and then this will be the first "Surface phone".

Warren seemed to think otherwise after his time with Panay. http://www.theverge.com/2015/10/8/9478353/microsoft-panos-panay-interview-surface-book-design

 

[Ed Boland]

Warren seemed to think otherwise after his time with Panay. Microsoft's Surface chief wants a consistent design across devices | The Verge

I read that as "a Surface inspired phone, even if it's labeled a Lumia" as in there may be Lumia phones that are inspired by the Surface... But then there are the actual "Surface Phones" ...and also, you've got to pay close attention to what exactly is in quotation marks in that article. The whole part about a Surface inspired Lumia wasn't a quote from Panay.

 

[Indistinguishable]

But then there are the actual "Surface Phones" .

I don't know how you could infer that from the interview. The only thing we can take from it is that Panay wants consistency in design amongst Microsoft devices. But branding will remain fairly autonomous. The next Xbox will be influenced by Surface design, but it'll still be part of the Xbox family.

and also, you've got to pay close attention to what exactly is in quotation marks in that article. The whole part about a Surface inspired Lumia wasn't a quote from Panay.

Right, I noticed. Which is why i mentioned that it's Warren's take away from the interview that hints at "Surface phones" with Lumia branding. There are things that are said off the record in these interviews that often influence editorial comments like that.

When push comes to shove, we don't really know much about this phone. We know it's got an intel chip. That's about it. As far as branding, Rubino says Surface is a mere consideration.

 

[Ed Boland]

Yep, we'll just have to wait and see. Mark this spot though.. I'm saying its going to be called the Surface phone.

But seriously, like I said in some other threads, Microsoft has been known to flat out cancel things at the last minute. We'll know if my source was right soon enough.

 

[Wajeeh Maaz]

Like I said earlier, a phone running x86 apps would be an absolute killer and businesses will be queuing up for it. This could really be where MS cements itself in the mobile space. It really does feel like a make-it-or-break-it moment for MS in the mobile field.

 

[power5]

Also, Panay seemed to hint that they'd be keeping the Lumia brand for mobile devices. Not using the Surface brand. So I don't think Surface devices are a great indicator of what to expect.

A surface is not a mobile device? I thought tablets were considered mobile devices? I am looking to buy a new phone to replace my Note 3 and want to get back to WP. My then brand new Titan not getting the WP8 update put me off for this last iteration and I went to android. I actually like it and was not disappointed like many suggested I would be. Its nice having all the apps the day they are released to iphone users as well and not having to wait for some 3rd party workaround app. Win10 and especially continuum looks awesome. Would love to hook up my spare monitors for continuum at home and work. Thinking about 950xl but do not really want another plastic phone like my note 3. Surface phone looks amazing in the renders.

 

[avi_920]

I told him last time I saw him (about a week ago) that I was thinking about getting an iPhone 6S Plus instead of a 950XL... His response was "please, just give me three months.. Wait for the Surface phone this January before you decide"

You guys don't have to take my word for it... I'm just repeating what I've heard from him. He said they wanted to release it now, but are waiting for Intel to catch up on their hardware end. He said "they're not waiting on us (Microsoft), we are ready!"

So does that mean the surface phone would be having a display size of more than 5.5"? Wish they have the display size no more than 5.5" for the rumoured surface phone, as 950 & 950xL have 5.2" & 5.7" displays. Sure the specs are gonna be awesome though!!