09-10-2015 03:42 AM
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  1. flowkidd's Avatar
    Hi guys,

    I've been messing around with W10M Previews since they came out and I'm losing confidence that my main problem will be resolved.

    My main problem is that apps keep resuming, WHY? What is the problem that they can't fix? Even their own apps keep resuming even if we just switch over for a second.

    Sure, this is old news since forever but this is a new OS, which means they should've got that fixed FIRST as part of a new OS.

    If they don't fix that before the release it's over for them. No one wants to see that screen when iOS and Android don't do that. It will make it seem slow.

    What else do they need to fix in order to even compete?
    09-07-2015 01:35 AM
  2. garvitmiglani97's Avatar
    Its still a technical preview, hopefully everything wil be fixed before final release
    gpobernardo and Captain_Eric like this.
    09-07-2015 01:43 AM
  3. flowkidd's Avatar
    Its still a technical preview, hopefully everything wil be fixed before final release
    I hope but shouldn't a technical preview have the core almost finished, cause if you are waiting until the end to fix something that is part of the core of the OS, it's not good planning.
    taymur, noersetiawan and Alfa Kapa like this.
    09-07-2015 03:19 AM
  4. barotropic's Avatar
    I wonder...most of us testing W10M are using inexpensive phones equipped with fairly low-powered S400 and S200 SOC's. Is the "resuming" screen as annoying on a Lumia 930 (800 series SOC)? I suspect most Android phones we are seeing for comparison are using 800-series SOC's, or at least 600.

    Also, I wonder what part installing apps on a micro SD card plays in the lengthy delay. Guess I should run an experiment.

    BTW, I when I compare the general responsiveness of my Lumia 640 with an S600-equipped Android device, I am not concerned. The Android device doesn't hesitate as much during the "resuming" phase, but it is not as smooth and quick in other launches and transitions. Overall, I think the responsiveness is very similar on like hardware.
    aximtreo and Paolo Ferrazza like this.
    09-07-2015 08:16 AM
  5. hacer619's Avatar
    That's true for the resuming problem. But for me im using a lumia 920 and I only see it when opening wp8 apps all win10 apps have no resuming problems. There is however a splash screen. windows 10 apps are optimised to have no resuming problems. Im not sure about 512mb ram devices.
    09-07-2015 08:26 AM
  6. Paolo Ferrazza's Avatar
    Well, android does not have resuming and drains battery, iOS does not have resuming because it has a super CPU.
    In other words just buy a windows phone that costs like an iPhone and you won't see any resuming (I have no resuming on my 930 and it costs half an iPhone anyway) :p
    09-07-2015 08:48 AM
  7. theefman's Avatar
    "Resuming" and "Loading" are inherent to WP 8.1 and from all indications thats goimg to carry over to W10M only they'll be hidden by splash screens.
    09-07-2015 09:31 AM
  8. a5cent's Avatar
    I hope but shouldn't a technical preview have the core almost finished, cause if you are waiting until the end to fix something that is part of the core of the OS, it's not good planning.
    As far as loading/resuming is concerned, I'd be very much surprised if MS were able to remove it entirely. I don't know why this issue, which has been with us since WP7, has persisted for so long, but it seems to be systemic.

    Still, the answer to your question is "No". While it's true that some things must be closer to finished than others, these are typically things we as end users never see, and usually have no idea they even exist.

    I also dispute that we can know how well MS is planning their work on W10M. For example, the overly lengthy loading/resuming delays (even for WP) some are reporting, could potentially be an issue with firmware. Firmware is always implemented last, and is not part of the core OS, meaning this delay may not be a bug at all, but rather just the consequence of device specific software components not yet existing. We just don't and can't know...

    If software were a house, a painter having missed a spot in the kitchen could affect the house in a way as to make it look as if a bomb went off in the basement. This is so completely different from what most people consider intuitive that it makes most judgements of unfinished software by laymen pretty much meaningless. Judging the progress of software development requires you to forget most of what you know about how material products evolve. It's easy to grasp how far along the building of a bridge, sculpture or house has progressed, but that intuitive approach simply doesn't apply to software. None of us can really judge W10M's progress without access to a lot more information than any of us currently have.

    An example would be the last preview build. MS stated that they fixed over 2000 issues and bugs. How many in this forum could name even 1% of those addressed issues? That demonstrates that MS's progress or speed is not really the problem people think it is. The real issue is people's inability to see even 1% of the progress being made. That is obviously bound to influence people's perceptions in a negative way.

    All of this represents a very large risk in terms of how people perceive MS and the W10M preview. We can see this now in the forums in how some people are starting to doubt MS' software competence, or in threads such as this one. I suppose MS thinks the benefits outweigh the risks.

    Anyway, last but not least, it seems a lot of people are expecting to get their final/official W10M update in October. People simply can't imagine how the preview could improve "enough" by then. I doubt anybody with an existing device will have W10M officially by October however. October is when MS will release W10M to OEMs. OEMs, including MS, may still have to build drivers and firmware for their own devices, meaning there may be more time than many of us think.
    09-07-2015 09:36 AM
  9. flowkidd's Avatar
    Well, android does not have resuming and drains battery, iOS does not have resuming because it has a super CPU.
    In other words just buy a windows phone that costs like an iPhone and you won't see any resuming (I have no resuming on my 930 and it costs half an iPhone anyway) :p
    My android (HTC One) lasts more than my L925 with WP8.1 and it doesn't have none of this loading.... or Resuming..... madness. Thanks for the reply.
    09-07-2015 12:44 PM
  10. flowkidd's Avatar
    Thanks for the lengthy reply, a5cent. I think you are right.
    a5cent likes this.
    09-07-2015 12:47 PM
  11. Manmikey's Avatar
    My android (HTC One) lasts more than my L925 with WP8.1 and it doesn't have none of this loading.... or Resuming..... madness. Thanks for the reply.
    I'm with you on the resuming............ loading............ I have a lumia 640 so I don't expect it to have flagship performance and accept it on this device but that doesn't mean it isn't frustrating to see it so many times in a day. I got the 640 to try out Windows phone and I am enjoying it after years of android. I now intend to get a 950 when they are out however if these high power flagships have loading and resuming pauses in every day use I will probably reconsider, it is just not acceptable for a state of the art flagship to have a performance issue like this. I look forward to the reviews of the first devices!
    09-07-2015 02:43 PM
  12. Captain_Eric's Avatar
    I just hope we get a build this week! 😊
    09-07-2015 02:55 PM
  13. Paolo Ferrazza's Avatar
    I'm with you on the resuming............ loading............ I have a lumia 640 so I don't expect it to have flagship performance and accept it on this device but that doesn't mean it isn't frustrating to see it so many times in a day. I got the 640 to try out Windows phone and I am enjoying it after years of android. I now intend to get a 950 when they are out however if these high power flagships have loading and resuming pauses in every day use I will probably reconsider, it is just not acceptable for a state of the art flagship to have a performance issue like this. I look forward to the reviews of the first devices!
    They won't. The resuming/loading screen depends on how much code the coder puts in the resuming part of the app and how fast the CPU will process operations. An app is composed of background and foreground parts when coding.

    The background part runs even if the app is suspended.

    The foreground part usually stops running when you change app or go to start. Then when the app is reopened the resuming part of the code is executed, in this code the coder must update the GUI accordingly. For example if a new message arrived while in background or the background thread did something worth showing and so on.

    So this is all to say that:
    -coders should put just a few lines of code, if there is a long operation like fetching something from the net they should first let the app open and then load missing data
    -processor speed and fast memory will both mitigate bad coding (not slow net connection)

    The only thing MS can do is to create some strategy to oblige developers to have short resuming times (loading-times when first opened), like "if it takes more than x just reinit the app and if reinitializing the app takes more than y just let the app crash with an error" (maybe this is too aggressive but something should be done so developers will receive bad feedback and change their code and so the blame is not put on the OS itself).

    Maybe you all knew this, just wanted to give some insight on the matter to those who didn't.

    So just to recap, on a 950 you will only have the resuming on really badly coded apps and so you should complain to the developers via the store review system.
    09-07-2015 05:41 PM
  14. colinkiama's Avatar
    Every OS has resuming.../loading. It's just that WP devs aren't implementing splash screens during loading/resuming (except in the Facebook app)
    eric12341 likes this.
    09-07-2015 06:03 PM
  15. a5cent's Avatar
    They won't. The resuming/loading screen depends on how much code the coder puts in the resuming part of the app and how fast the CPU will process operations. An app is composed of background and foreground parts when coding.
    This is all correct in theory, but in practice you can build an empty WP app that does absolutely nothing in response to the resuming event, and occasionally still be confronted with the resuming screen. As far as I'm concerned, if an app is still in memory and doesn't respond to a resuming event, resuming should be instant, but that's just not the case. Something more is going on here that MS isn't telling us.

    I don't see these types of resuming delays on iOS.
    Last edited by a5cent; 09-07-2015 at 06:37 PM. Reason: spelling
    09-07-2015 06:26 PM
  16. MDK22's Avatar
    has anybody considered it might be the apps, not the OS.

    The loading/resuming only happens on certain apps (from what I read), I've had NO issue on my Lumia 1520 - but, I'm still on WinPhone 8.1.

    The other (troubling) issue is ... people leave their phone ON for weeks (in some cases, months) - a quick reboot (weekly) will fix myriad issues.

    As far as Android comparisons, after six months they ALL lag, it's the nature of the beast.
    09-07-2015 06:27 PM
  17. a5cent's Avatar
    has anybody considered it might be the apps, not the OS.

    The loading/resuming only happens on certain apps (from what I read), I've had NO issue on my Lumia 1520 - but, I'm still on WinPhone 8.1.

    The other (troubling) issue is ... people leave their phone ON for weeks (in some cases, months) - a quick reboot (weekly) will fix myriad issues.

    As far as Android comparisons, after six months they ALL lag, it's the nature of the beast.
    Read my post directly above yours. Based on my analysis I'd say apps can utterly destroy loading / resuming performance. However, even apps that should theoretically resume instantly sometimes do not. I can't say I've witnessed this on iOS. I'd say WP occasionally engages in processing that leads to a resuming delay which intuitively seems unnecessary, but poorly built apps can make that delay far worse.
    09-07-2015 06:47 PM
  18. Jazmac's Avatar
    Probably on some devices this remains an issue. I don't see this on my HTC One. What I have discovered about this latest build, I cannot enable the battery saver. Makes the phone freak out completely. But I don't have the resume bug. ::Knock wood::
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    09-07-2015 08:05 PM
  19. Nabkawe5's Avatar
    Those who say that WM10 is a preview seem to forget that WP8.1 is NOT and it still resumes all the time.
    Last edited by a5cent; 09-09-2015 at 02:13 PM. Reason: removed profanity
    09-07-2015 09:13 PM
  20. RaRa85's Avatar
    Those who say that WM10 is a preview seem to forget that WP8.1 is NOT and it still resumes all the time.
    Yes I wanted to show a friend some pictures I took on my Lumia 1020 last October before my experimental year with Android and I cannot tell you how embarrassing it was to look at a blank home screen and literally wait for the tiles to fill in before going forward to the photos hub.

    Sent from my D6616 using Tapatalk
    Last edited by a5cent; 09-08-2015 at 04:42 AM. Reason: removed profanity in quote
    WesleyBPeres likes this.
    09-07-2015 09:28 PM
  21. realwarder's Avatar
    The OS includes more and more core functionality - 8.1 brought Cortana etc. WM10 brings Android and yet another app platform. This puts a strain on available memory to support running processes above the base OS.

    Currently I think it is getting better with each preview release. As mentioned above, we don't see behind the scenes but I'm sure focus on performance will increase as the feature set is now settling.
    a5cent likes this.
    09-07-2015 11:59 PM
  22. Skamath's Avatar
    "Resuming" and "Loading" are inherent to WP 8.1 and from all indications thats goimg to carry over to W10M only they'll be hidden by splash screens.
    Come to think of it. That is why it is all so nice and smooth on the Iphone6+ and Ipad that my mrs uses. So it is not the phone afterall ;)
    09-08-2015 02:03 AM
  23. amcluesent's Avatar
    After a hard reset with build 10512, the 'resuming' is very rarely seen on my 930. Before the hard reset it ran very, very badly.
    09-08-2015 02:12 AM
  24. Skamath's Avatar
    They won't. The resuming/loading screen depends on how much code the coder puts in the resuming part of the app and how fast the CPU will process operations. An app is composed of background and foreground parts when coding.

    The background part runs even if the app is suspended.

    The foreground part usually stops running when you change app or go to start. Then when the app is reopened the resuming part of the code is executed, in this code the coder must update the GUI accordingly. For example if a new message arrived while in background or the background thread did something worth showing and so on.

    So this is all to say that:
    -coders should put just a few lines of code, if there is a long operation like fetching something from the net they should first let the app open and then load missing data
    -processor speed and fast memory will both mitigate bad coding (not slow net connection)

    The only thing MS can do is to create some strategy to oblige developers to have short resuming times (loading-times when first opened), like "if it takes more than x just reinit the app and if reinitializing the app takes more than y just let the app crash with an error" (maybe this is too aggressive but something should be done so developers will receive bad feedback and change their code and so the blame is not put on the OS itself).

    Maybe you all knew this, just wanted to give some insight on the matter to those who didn't.

    So just to recap, on a 950 you will only have the resuming on really badly coded apps and so you should complain to the developers via the store review system.
    I didn't read past the first para but I am sure what you said is absolutely the logic behind the loading and resuming screens but as a developer would you honestly say that no matter how light the app coding is written or desgined the OS and hardware has the capacity to bring the app speed down?
    Also like I read somewhere in this thread this IOS and droids cover it up with the splash screen instead of loading and resuming why does that happen when closing apps and switching screens when it swiftly closes or switches over in IOS and droids?

    One more question is that when I have had some apps from day one of the phone including the OS starting with the amber update, why do I see more resuming and loading screens from more apps as the updates to OS and FW have been installed?( the Hard reset was done after every update and FW flash)
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    09-08-2015 02:13 AM
  25. Kram Sacul's Avatar
    It was all down hill after 8.0. Until 8.1 I never had a problem with resuming or loading screens on either my 820 or 920. Flashing back to 8.0 GDR3 confirms this. It was just a lot faster to open and jump back into an app. MS screwed something up.
    Nabkawe5, theefman and akshaypn like this.
    09-08-2015 05:35 AM
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