02-24-2016 05:30 PM
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  1. constantreader16's Avatar
    WM's problem isn't hardware related. Hardware is the only thing OEMs bring to the table however. WM's problems are ecosystem, app, and OS related. OEMs can't do anything for WM in any of those areas.
    The ecosystem should be stronger than ever right now. With Windows 10 bringing an unprecedented synchronicity to all the forms of the OS, this shouldn't be an issue. In addition to the WaaS model with being able to publish updates as frequently as they would like is pretty damn awesome and impressive.

    Apps are struggling, but without a "Official Release" of W10M, I don't think we've seen the last of new apps or apps being made into Universal Apps. Rubino and others have all but seemingly confirmed this. This is also ignoring the fact that you can live without a Kik, Snapchat, and some of the other apps everyone claims W10M so desperately needs.

    The OS is no where near as bad as everyone says, especially with the .71 and .107 updates, which are now available to all users. Those two builds fixed a lot of the glaring issues and have brought widespread stability to W10M devices. As I mentioned before, WaaS allows this to happen, imagine if we had to wait for carriers to release the .29, .36, .63, .71, or .107 builds? We'd still be waiting for those updates. Microsoft has done themselves a huge favor by going after this model, this is nothing short of a huge win for them.

    Considering the amount of ******** and complaining I've seen about the build quality of the Lumia 950/XL, OEM hardware should be a winner. Long gone are the days of Nokia making software strictly for their phones, so there is no more restriction of having to buy a Nokia to get a good camera app. Had I not bought a 950 XL myself, I would be seriously considering the HP Elite x3 when it launches, I may still be considering that regardless.

    As one last comment, the looming Redstone update (and hopefully looming mobile insider builds), we should see some significant changes and improvements to the OS. Between the upcoming official release of Windows 10 Mobile and the subsequent Redstone 1 & 2 updates, it's way too early to consider this a losing OS. Just the improvements since the November launch are reason to have optimism.

    Take care all!
    HeyCori and Asfalloth like this.
    02-19-2016 12:42 PM
  2. a5cent's Avatar
    And consumer mindshare. . .
    Agreed. Maybe I'm putting too much faith in humanity, but I do think mindshare follows automatically if the products and/or services offer something unique that consumers like (either that, or offer something that isn't unique but at a better price).

    In other words, I think mindshare is a secondary problem that would normally sort itself out if everything else is done right.
    tgp, Laura Knotek and xandros9 like this.
    02-20-2016 08:24 AM
  3. mjperry51's Avatar
    Agreed. Maybe I'm putting too much faith in humanity, but I do think mindshare follows automatically if the products and/or services offer something unique that consumers like (either that, or offer something that isn't unique but at a better price).

    In other words, I think mindshare is a secondary problem that would normally sort itself out if everything else is done right.
    Agreed to a certain extent.

    In this day and age initial mindshare happens first in the media -- radio, TV, etc. No the demand media like Facebook/Twitter, but the push media where one doesn't have to seek it out. Microsoft does precious little positioning of this type; one sees Apple and Android commercials even when there are no new products being presented. I haven't seen a Windows 10 commercial since forever; nor have I seen a Surface Pro, Surface Laptop, or Lumia 950 commercial.
    The only audience MS markets to is its users. from the beginning of MS-DOS they haven't competed at the retail level. They were preloaded. They won the battle of the office suite because they had a unified product, compared to the Lotus/WordPerfect coalition. WordPerfect was actually the better product. So Office got bundled, and won in the workplace, then migrated to the home. Apple gambled on the education market and lost. Apple learned to win at retail; not big, but effectively. They learned the value of panache. Microsoft continued on its path. Microsoft has NEVER understood or effectively utilized marketing or advertising. I believe they never felt they needed it. They still don't think they need it.

    The average consumer doesn't look at technology the way we do. It's a piece of jewelry; a shiny object. And the average consumer is far more prevalent than us techies.

    MS is no good at mindshare -- never has been, and may never be. It's not in their DNA. . . .
    02-21-2016 06:49 AM
  4. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    Agreed to a certain extent.

    In this day and age initial mindshare happens first in the media -- radio, TV, etc. No the demand media like Facebook/Twitter, but the push media where one doesn't have to seek it out. Microsoft does precious little positioning of this type; one sees Apple and Android commercials even when there are no new products being presented. I haven't seen a Windows 10 commercial since forever; nor have I seen a Surface Pro, Surface Laptop, or Lumia 950 commercial.
    The only audience MS markets to is its users. from the beginning of MS-DOS they haven't competed at the retail level. They were preloaded. They won the battle of the office suite because they had a unified product, compared to the Lotus/WordPerfect coalition. WordPerfect was actually the better product. So Office got bundled, and won in the workplace, then migrated to the home. Apple gambled on the education market and lost. Apple learned to win at retail; not big, but effectively. They learned the value of panache. Microsoft continued on its path. Microsoft has NEVER understood or effectively utilized marketing or advertising. I believe they never felt they needed it. They still don't think they need it.

    The average consumer doesn't look at technology the way we do. It's a piece of jewelry; a shiny object. And the average consumer is far more prevalent than us techies.

    MS is no good at mindshare -- never has been, and may never be. It's not in their DNA. . . .
    I believe that the lack of advertising of Windows is because the average consumer doesn't buy a Surface product. Most consumers buy computers the same way they buy TVs, refrigerators, or ranges. All of those items are commodities that everyone has in his or her home. The only people who pay close attention to features are the audio/video geeks, the computer geeks, and the cooking aficionados. For everyone else, price is what they look at first. A specific operating system won't sell computers to anyone but geeks.
    Guytronic, libra89 and Mach_E like this.
    02-21-2016 01:58 PM
  5. mjperry51's Avatar
    I believe that the lack of advertising of Windows is because the average consumer doesn't buy a Surface product. Most consumers buy computers the same way they buy TVs, refrigerators, or ranges. All of those items are commodities that everyone has in his or her home. The only people who pay close attention to features are the audio/video geeks, the computer geeks, and the cooking aficionados. For everyone else, price is what they look at first. A specific operating system won't sell computers to anyone but geeks.
    That becomes the rub, doesn't it?

    MS isn't "known" for hardware -- Apple is. Actually what Apple is know for is the panache of their products. A carefully crafted personality; hip, leading edge, etc.

    Now Microsoft knows this -- they cannot compete on Apple's turf, because they don't have the history, or the horses for that race. So they do what they do best. Their "hardware" is an exhibition of their OS/software. The enterprise is has been (and is still) their strong suit. Office runs on Mac; their strong apps run in IOS and Android. Both Apple and Google tightly control their ecosystem; MS let's the user choose. It's VHS/Betamax all over again, with a third player, with MS playing VHS (open environment) and Apple/Android playing Betamax 1 and Betamax 2. How successful has Google's forays into OS been on the desktop/enterprise? Apple?

    As long as MS keeps an 85% ownership of the desktop OS, and their applications are profitable, it doesn't matter. Hardware is expensive and support intensive. Software is easier to support, especially today with all the inter-connectivity. Lower support costs means higher profit margins.

    We here get upset when MS doesn't act like Apple. Well, they're not Apple, and they know it. They're Microsoft. And they're going to do what they can to be the best, most profitable Microsoft they can - they owe that to their stockholders. They don't owe us IPhones. . . .
    libra89 and Laura Knotek like this.
    02-22-2016 07:35 AM
  6. constantreader16's Avatar
    I believe that the lack of advertising of Windows is because the average consumer doesn't buy a Surface product. Most consumers buy computers the same way they buy TVs, refrigerators, or ranges. All of those items are commodities that everyone has in his or her home. The only people who pay close attention to features are the audio/video geeks, the computer geeks, and the cooking aficionados. For everyone else, price is what they look at first. A specific operating system won't sell computers to anyone but geeks.
    Average consumers who buy products from the Surface line (even the earlier versions), seem to absolutely love them! Even the earlier Yoga products blew people away. Now that these are more common products and much more refined, Microsoft should try to advertise them more. Although, it seems the Surface line has done really well without much advertising as of late.
    02-24-2016 02:51 PM
  7. Spectrum90's Avatar
    You do realize that these are just people doing their jobs, don't you? They are reporters covering a beat. The guy on the TV news covering a flood isn't responsible for the flood, he's just the reporter.

    Maybe Apple and Google are a more sexy, more successful beat these days, but in some cases, they don't have a choice. They are told what to cover by their bosses. Even if they were freelancers who could cover what want, it's not as easy as just determining that they want to switch to covering Google.

    What makes them experts (not "experts") is that they have developed contacts within Microsoft. They know many people that work within the company, in different capacities in different divisions. This is how they are able to develop news stories without waiting for press releases from the company, how they are able to confirm or deny rumors with any degree of success. To switch to a different company, and build up trusted contacts would take a long time. And then, when Google would start to falter, should they switch to whatever the new dominant platform would be? It would be a constant chase. That is why for better or worse, these reporters will probably continue to follow Microsoft.
    They do a really poor job.

    Thurrott is a bipolar person that changes opinions every week.
    Foley just writes press releases.
    Rubino doesn't have any technical knowledge. Half of the articles on the wcentral are about third party Twitter clients and minor app updates without change log.
    Warren must be the most boring an uninspired person alive.

    These are the popular tech writers that follow Microsoft.
    02-24-2016 05:07 PM
  8. Guytronic's Avatar
    Ok I think we can call this thread done for now.

    Thanks everyone.

    Closed
    jmshub likes this.
    02-24-2016 05:30 PM
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