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05-03-2017 05:09 AM
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  1. mikepalma's Avatar
    Accept the truth: W10M failed. It stinks. It's dead. It's buried.

    MS will probably push for a Surface ultra mobile blah blah blah with full W10, with the hopes that government and enterprise will adopt them due to Office on PCs already in use there. UWP.for apps flopped so 99% of consumers need to go Android or iOS (kinda like what is now).

    Later Dona and the failed w10m team...

    Sent from mTalk
    04-23-2017 08:21 PM
  2. mattiasnyc's Avatar
    Allow me to quote someone who knows everything: "Watch out here co.e the haters... "
    Drael646464 and TgeekB like this.
    04-23-2017 08:49 PM
  3. Drael646464's Avatar
    It's funny reading several of the comments here as it seems like a large portion of the blame doesn't just rest on MS but Google for the current state of Windows Phone. In a lot of ways I can see that... Considering Google maps was in the top ten most downloaded apps for the 1st quarter of 2017 in the App Store, that kind of says it all. People don't just want certain Google apps, they practically depend on them.

    I just don't know who shoulders more responsibility here. Did MS themselves dislike the thought of Google's presence in their app store, competing with them? Or Did Google dislike it? Was it ever about the time and resources not being worth it as Google always claimed? or was it a bit of hostility from both from both ends?

    Either way I know this was personally one of the major reasons why I pushed myself away from Windows Phones over time. I like certain MS services but Gmail and Google maps are simply to important for me to walk away. Not having a native app made life more difficult than it needed to be. I know we tlak about the app gap all the time but I'd be curious to know if the lack of some very, very specific apps in particular is what soured the opinion of the phone for some people. not just MS' handling of the devices.
    You can run "WebApps UWP", and get most of googles services as web apps. Web apps run this way are pretty much identical to any other kind of apps. I run google maps, youtube, Spotify and a bunch of things on my windows tablet using a similar method. So if those were your reasons for leaving, you could have just downloaded webapps from the windows store instead of buying a new phone.

    You're right of course, googles commercially based snubbing of UWP probably puts some people who don't know about webapps off. Which surely is their intention. But googles questionable behaviour towards consumers recently pushed me the other way - I've blocked all ads on youtube, and have stopped used google search.
    04-23-2017 11:30 PM
  4. Grant Taylor3's Avatar
    Windows 10 Mobile is just a stepping stone to full Windows 10 on ARM.

    I expect Windows 10 Mobile to see out the 3 year life cycle of the 950's.

    By that time Windows 10 on ARM devices will be out and there will be plenty of choice and one single OS and no fragmentation between desktop and mobile.

    At that point it comes down to developer's to make the apps available on the platform.
    Drael646464 likes this.
    04-24-2017 01:54 AM
  5. Drael646464's Avatar
    Windows 10 Mobile is just a stepping stone to full Windows 10 on ARM.

    I expect Windows 10 Mobile to see out the 3 year life cycle of the 950's.

    By that time Windows 10 on ARM devices will be out and there will be plenty of choice and one single OS and no fragmentation between desktop and mobile.

    At that point it comes down to developer's to make the apps available on the platform.
    Desktop dominance, laptop dominance, increasing tablet share, gaming dominance (through PC and xbox convergence via project scorpio) and windows on arm for laptops, tablets and phones

    The whole thing of onecore and cshell isn't far off now. When we really do have a single OS running UWPs and UWAs across a range of devices, and its tantalisingly close, I find it really hard to imagine developers NOT flocking to it.

    I mean, if they write for another platform they will only reach one type of device. Heck if they write in the bot framework they can have their speech app on other platforms too, like ios and android.

    When people see this coming together, they'll finally understand what MS has been banging on about, and why win 10 mobile was always going to go eventually. They'll also see how powerful that move is commercially, and why its been worth the wait.

    I wonder what intels going to do with even more ARM devices running about? I suppose focus on performance and peripheral connectivity even more? Put in some LTE? For desktops they obviously have an audience, but in tablets they have a fight ahead on their hands. We could use some thunderbolt along with our LTE for device convergence and I don't see QUALCOMM doing it....so there's something...
    04-24-2017 02:15 AM
  6. jmatgood's Avatar
    Feel like its time to regroup and move on to the next thing.

    1% of the market share does not warrant the development time invested, there is just no return on it.

    Put yourself in their shoes, you have multiple Billion dollar service and product lines, why do it any longer?

    Would they still keep Office around if they had 1% of the market??

    Regroup, focus on ARM, make it killer.

    Put Windows Phones and Windows mobile out to pasture, its past its time.
    Drael646464 likes this.
    04-24-2017 11:36 AM
  7. pjhenry1216's Avatar
    Feel like its time to regroup and move on to the next thing.

    1% of the market share does not warrant the development time invested, there is just no return on it.

    Put yourself in their shoes, you have multiple Billion dollar service and product lines, why do it any longer?

    Would they still keep Office around if they had 1% of the market??

    Regroup, focus on ARM, make it killer.

    Put Windows Phones and Windows mobile out to pasture, its past its time.
    Windows 10 Mobile is a stepping stone to Windows on ARM on mobile devices though. The technology being used for mobile right now won't just be thrown out. It'll be incorporated into WoA. Personally, that's why I don't think they've killed it. I think its because its not time being wasted.
    Drael646464 likes this.
    04-24-2017 12:12 PM
  8. PauloP's Avatar
    I will leave my vision on what has been done wrong in my country, Brazil.

    Many people had a Windows phone here back in 2014, so we were a key market to MS's mobile division.

    When they decided to switch from WP 8.1 to the W10M, all they needed here was offering new models.

    The problem was: the vast majority of the Windows Phones here were mid and low end. The higher end models used to sell great too, but they never competed with top droids and the iPhones. So the first mistake was to announce only the 950 duo. Then things got uglier. After placing local webpages for the products with a 'coming soon' label on them, the official launch never happened here. These brand new W10M devices never got officially sold on our country. And so did any other W10M device.

    With no new device on sale, it's gotten more and more difficult to spot a person with a Windows phone. So developers stopped releasing new versions of their apps. Banks' apps stopped working properly, third party apps for services like YouTube needed weeks just to return to a normal state after a slight change on Google's side.

    It's simple as that. No matter what MS did and does in the development front: with no new devices, these efforts are simply useless.

    Then there's the problem of switching from a perfectly stable version of an OS, WP 8.1, to a crap of a beta software called Windows 10 Mobile. It took MS more than a year to make things look like a finish product and to bring the OS as a whole to be almost as fast and stable as the old 8.1 was (and they still haven't!).

    Let's be honest: the 950 duo has great HW. They've listened to us customers: phenomenal camera, removable battery, dual-SIM, expandable memory, great screen, great battery, Iris scanner. It's all there! But they killed it on the software front and on the limited offer.

    I find more and more difficult saying goodbye to this incredible piece of HW, but I got to face the truth, it's really dead by now.
    04-24-2017 12:25 PM
  9. a5cent's Avatar
    Windows 10 Mobile is just a stepping stone to full Windows 10 on ARM.

    I expect Windows 10 Mobile to see out the 3 year life cycle of the 950's.

    By that time Windows 10 on ARM devices will be out and there will be plenty of choice and one single OS and no fragmentation between desktop and mobile.

    At that point it comes down to developer's to make the apps available on the platform.
    If there is anything W10M is not, it's a stepping stone to W10oA. W10oA is not derived from W10M, but rather from W10. The real stepping stone here is W10oA. It's a stepping stone towards popularizing the UWP. If it is successful in that then it will also have made itself obsolete. W10oA is not the future of Windows. It's just a means to get to Windows' future.

    There are different ways of looking at the fragmentation issue.

    • If you consider the UWP, then there already is zero fragmentation between desktop and mobile. The UWP runtime is exactly the same on both. UWP apps can be (if the developer wants it so) exactly the same on both. No fragmentation.
    • If you consider Win32, which is what W10oA brings to mobile devices, then there will always be fragmentation of some type. For example, Win32 apps will typically not support touch input, so you'll never be using Win32 software on small/touch-focused displays. Mobile devices of that sort will require two separate modes of operation, continuum being one possibility. Some people call that "user experience fragmentation", and Win32 will never close that fragmentation gap.
    Last edited by a5cent; 04-24-2017 at 08:47 PM. Reason: spelling
    Muessig and libra89 like this.
    04-24-2017 12:32 PM
  10. Grant Taylor3's Avatar
    Windows 10 Mobile is and has been a stepping stone for customers who wished to use is while we wait fir full Windows,10 on ARM to come out.





    I have been running Wibdows 10 Mobile from the start and I have bought apps from the store as well as used the free NS ones.





    I have used them kn my 1020, 640 & now my 950 that I got when it came out.





    I run the very same apps on my desktops, laptop and tablets.



    When a suitable Windows 10 on ARM based device comes out I will replace my Lumia 950.



    It will carry on running my current UWP apps and it should replace my 8 year old desktop as well as my phone.



    The problem is who is developing new software for Windows 10?



    This is MS's biggest issue.



    I use Windows because I like it and I have used and supported it since Windows 2.



    On mobile I used Nokia hardware for the last 20 years. I have had a Windows Phone since the Lumia 900.



    I hope Microsoft get it right this time after nearly 20 years of trying with mobile.

    With Windows 10 on ARM MS has a chance but they need to get the developers to build the apps.
    Last edited by Grant Taylor3; 04-24-2017 at 01:14 PM.
    04-24-2017 12:50 PM
  11. jmatgood's Avatar
    I doubt it is a stepping stone. Seeing as the OS has many parts that are core to all versions, its likely they have a completely different version of the OS that my look or feel like Windows 10 mobile.

    IOT, Cloud, Xbox, Mobile, all share compents, just add an ARM flavor (or dont?) Seems pretty easy to cut up and build a 'new OS' off all the pieces you have laying around.

    If devices are confirmed to be coming out in the later part of this year, you bet they will getting that OS to OEMs and the like in August or September at the latest, if not sooner or now for driver testing and such.

    The only thing they need for mobile is a phone and mms app. They have all the other pieces just laying around, and they will need to know only what modem is being used and carrier settings for a phone to work.

    Keep in mind Microsoft is primarily a Software and service company. Sure they have dabbled in keyboards, mice and created a new category with the Surface line. At their core they do software. The did this out of necessity, Dell, HP Lenovo, got the picture when Microsoft started releasing their own hardware. Surface change all that. We are expecting a Surface class, flagship mobile device.

    It will take a new device or category to get where they want to be. Surface didn't happen overnight, and lets be honest. The last Windows phones, were pretty much built with that 9 billion that was spent on Nokia. Sure they had the Microsoft name on them, but there were not first party Microsoft innovation and creativity. They simply adapted to the OS that was designated to it.


    Only my 2 cents anyway, just getting a bit impatient is all.
    04-24-2017 01:02 PM
  12. jmatgood's Avatar
    Well put. W10A is just to suffice the Win32 app category. Its not really anything too new. Did Window Server not use to run on Intel/AMD and Itanium, but the Itanium were completely different. And also doesn't Windows RT run on an Nvidia processor. This emulation/virtualization is exactly as you describe a means to Windows future.

    But the future is just that. Windows everywhere, a flavor for anything with processor, why not? The ultimate in adapt or become IBM.
    04-24-2017 01:15 PM
  13. Grant Taylor3's Avatar
    Everything that is in Windows 10 Mobile is in Windows 10 already there like the dia lol er and phonebook.

    This converging of desktop and mobile has been going on since the beginning of Windows 10 and has just been waiting for ARM processors to catch up .
    04-24-2017 01:38 PM
  14. Grant Taylor3's Avatar
    The only time you would want to run a Win32 application is when connected to a monitor, keyboard and mouse. No one ever said anything about running Win32 programs on a 6" touch screen.

    The issue is apps for when you want to use that 6" touch screen.
    04-24-2017 04:10 PM
  15. camaroz1985's Avatar
    The real telling sign I think will how the official release of the Creators Update is handled tomorrow. Will there be any fanfare or even a half a$$ed press release?
    libra89 likes this.
    04-24-2017 05:19 PM
  16. a5cent's Avatar
    Windows 10 Mobile is and has been a stepping stone for customers who wished to use is while we wait fir full Windows,10 on ARM to come out.
    Words like "Fragmentation", "Convergence", "Stepping Stone" are a bit too vague to be useful. I disagree with pretty much all of your statements so far, but it's likely that I'm completely misunderstanding you because I interpret those words differently.

    I gave up on an earlier post of mine and deleted it, because I wasn't sure what your exact position is. I'll just highlight the "Stepping Stone" term as an example:

    W10oA is all about bringing Win32 to portable and cheap cellular PCs. W10M was about doing the exact opposite. W10M was about doing away with everything related to Win32. Since the goals of these two OSes are mutually exclusive opposites of each other, calling one the stepping stone to the other makes zero sense to me. With opposite goals, one can not lead to the other.
    04-24-2017 09:27 PM
  17. peter32's Avatar
    I didn't spend lots of time with the window phone, but progressed from nokia 808, then 1020 mainly for the camera, loved the phone but hate the battery drain. Until I loss the phone in the drain, which forced me to change to something else (android).
    The answer is simple. Nokia made a huge mistake in going into windows phone which microsoft had a wrong direction in its infant stage. The rest is history.

    I still turned my head from time to time, thinking that Microsoft may come out with a windows phone that's able to access my office files with its universal window platform. But honestly, with such a speed of development, we can safely conclude that they no longer find it viable to proceed to that direction anymore.

    It is therefore time for every windows phone user to stop imagining things and move on. Its far better for everyone to use microsoft apps in iOS or Android platform, so that they can perfect the apps for the future.

    I kept quite a host of Nokia photo collection etc, which can no longer be read nowadays. We shall not have nostalgia towards a falling OS. We should come first, and so am I.
    04-28-2017 12:13 AM
  18. Drael646464's Avatar
    I didn't spend lots of time with the window phone, but progressed from nokia 808, then 1020 mainly for the camera, loved the phone but hate the battery drain. Until I loss the phone in the drain, which forced me to change to something else (android).
    The answer is simple. Nokia made a huge mistake in going into windows phone which microsoft had a wrong direction in its infant stage. The rest is history.

    I still turned my head from time to time, thinking that Microsoft may come out with a windows phone that's able to access my office files with its universal window platform. But honestly, with such a speed of development, we can safely conclude that they no longer find it viable to proceed to that direction anymore.

    It is therefore time for every windows phone user to stop imagining things and move on. Its far better for everyone to use microsoft apps in iOS or Android platform, so that they can perfect the apps for the future.

    I kept quite a host of Nokia photo collection etc, which can no longer be read nowadays. We shall not have nostalgia towards a falling OS. We should come first, and so am I.
    Office 365 comes to UWP this year. If that's what you meant by "office files".
    04-28-2017 01:51 AM
  19. BrunoMG's Avatar
    I didn't spend lots of time with the window phone, but progressed from nokia 808, then 1020 mainly for the camera, loved the phone but hate the battery drain. Until I loss the phone in the drain, which forced me to change to something else (android).
    The answer is simple. Nokia made a huge mistake in going into windows phone which microsoft had a wrong direction in its infant stage. The rest is history.

    I still turned my head from time to time, thinking that Microsoft may come out with a windows phone that's able to access my office files with its universal window platform. But honestly, with such a speed of development, we can safely conclude that they no longer find it viable to proceed to that direction anymore.

    It is therefore time for every windows phone user to stop imagining things and move on. Its far better for everyone to use microsoft apps in iOS or Android platform, so that they can perfect the apps for the future.

    I kept quite a host of Nokia photo collection etc, which can no longer be read nowadays. We shall not have nostalgia towards a falling OS. We should come first, and so am I.
    That is exactly my feeling
    In my perception of user of all 3 OS's I feel Microsoft Apps (most of them) run better and smoother in iOS or Android than they do in W10M......and with more funcionalities!
    04-28-2017 03:19 AM
  20. mattiasnyc's Avatar
    I still turned my head from time to time, thinking that Microsoft may come out with a windows phone that's able to access my office files with its universal window platform. But honestly, with such a speed of development, we can safely conclude that they no longer find it viable to proceed to that direction anymore.
    I'm not sure I understand. You can't access your MS Office files on OneDrive using a W10M phone?

    Its far better for everyone to use microsoft apps in iOS or Android platform, so that they can perfect the apps for the future.
    It's not better for those of us who prefer the Windows 10 Mobile phone OS. It's worse for us. The more people that get these W10M phones the better. The only argument that MS has against making, promoting or sponsoring new phones is that they're not selling. If they're not selling then people aren't investing.

    So we as users all have a choice here: We can encourage consumers to get W10M phones because that helps all W10M phone users as further sales increase the desire to invest in the platform....

    Or we can continue to whine about it on social media... and whine and whine and whine...

    It shouldn't be rocket science figuring out which one is better for W10M......

    I kept quite a host of Nokia photo collection etc, which can no longer be read nowadays. We shall not have nostalgia towards a falling OS. We should come first, and so am I.
    You're responsible for your data. Was this data created using a Nokia phone when Nokia and Lumia were unrelated to Microsoft, or was it created after MS took over part of it?

    At what point did you discover that you could not read this photos and were you ever able to convert them to a different format that current phones can read?

    At some point the consumer actually has a responsibility for the technology he owns and for its usage. It's not all the manufacturers fault all the time.
    Drael646464 likes this.
    04-28-2017 10:22 AM
  21. peter32's Avatar
    mattiasnyc

    I'm not sure I understand. You can't access your MS Office files on OneDrive using a W10M phone?

    A: I actually view files from my office backuped OneDrive documents. I also uses CCTV apps for own home security, minor chatting, surfed internet, minor music and video viewing. In short, I am not a heavy user but some variety of activities. Old window phone only managed the office file viewing and media playing. CCTV was out of the questions. I don't play games at all.


    It's not better for those of us who prefer the Windows 10 Mobile phone OS. It's worse for us. The more people that get these W10M phones the better. The only argument that MS has against making, promoting or sponsoring new phones is that they're not selling. If they're not selling then people aren't investing.

    A: I did try to hang on to the OS and its ecology. But Microsoft gave us poor updates, let problem literally hanged on for years. I don't know how you call that behaviour, for me it was a 'if you don't like it, just get lost'.

    So we as users all have a choice here: We can encourage consumers to get W10M phones because that helps all W10M phone users as further sales increase the desire to invest in the platform....

    Or we can continue to whine about it on social media... and whine and whine and whine...

    It shouldn't be rocket science figuring out which one is better for W10M......

    A: I understand your position and your belief that if we provide a customer base, they will keep the OS. But I didn't whine about it mind you. I moved on. Its a choice. I actually loved the hardware, even to this day.


    You're responsible for your data. Was this data created using a Nokia phone when Nokia and Lumia were unrelated to Microsoft, or was it created after MS took over part of it?

    A: It was one of those Nokia proprietary photo apps that produce special photos which allowed us to refocus (can't recall the name now). I loved them. I kept a few of those in their online folder, and now, gone. I don't know if they allowed us to download, and to which format. Its definitely not the usual jpg etc.

    At what point did you discover that you could not read this photos and were you ever able to convert them to a different format that current phones can read?

    At some point the consumer actually has a responsibility for the technology he owns and for its usage. It's not all the manufacturers fault all the time.

    A: Agreed. So I am now looking for an OS that probably will last slightly longer in the market.
    05-02-2017 11:02 AM
  22. Wbutchart1's Avatar
    Most of what has came out is the results of the retrenchment strategy and interpretation of documents. A lot of it is assumption built on minimal facts.

    Personally, I'm good just now, yeah I'd like some good news, ideally some new hardware and an idea of where Microsoft is taking the platform short term as well.

    Still getting app updates, phone updates, phone still works, so things are fine. Looking forward to something coming up at build or Dan and Zac are getting stormed on twitter for giving false hope (according to our interpretations of their tweets lol).
    05-02-2017 03:59 PM
  23. Drael646464's Avatar
    Most of what has came out is the results of the retrenchment strategy and interpretation of documents. A lot of it is assumption built on minimal facts.

    Personally, I'm good just now, yeah I'd like some good news, ideally some new hardware and an idea of where Microsoft is taking the platform short term as well.

    Still getting app updates, phone updates, phone still works, so things are fine. Looking forward to something coming up at build or Dan and Zac are getting stormed on twitter for giving false hope (according to our interpretations of their tweets lol).
    Logically, MS wants in this space, it'll be awhile before they are positioned for a refresh, a surface phone or similar, especially app wise. WoA isn't battery optimised like mobile OSes either. Commercially it makes no sense to me for them to end their support for win10m now, and apps? yeah, personally, I see them getting better not worse. I believe in the onecore one OS strategy commercially. I think its a solid play. A slow burner for sure, but a solid play.

    Only thing I'd like to see is more hardware sometime in the next year. Even if its just another HP, and not consumer.
    05-03-2017 05:09 AM
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