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  1. Joseph DeFrancesco's Avatar
    Hi everyone, so far I like what I see about Windows 10, however, I'm very disappointed about Phones not getting the desktop. Sure, when you're using only the phone I can understand, but when it's plugged into a TV, why not have the TV in desktop mode as if it was any other computer, and your phones screen a keyboard and touchpad? Of course Bluetooth mouse/keyboard would be great, or even a dock, but I would love to essentially have Windows RT in my pocket at all times. I don't care if it's not x86. I've loved all of Ubuntu's concepts and where they want to take Ubuntu, but they will likely never pull it off. A company like MS however... why not?

    Am I alone on this, or is this a good idea?
    vb4 likes this.
    09-30-2014 09:08 PM
  2. Roderick Aspiras's Avatar
    a BIG NO! Sorry.
    09-30-2014 09:26 PM
  3. ntice_521's Avatar
    Yes, it's a good idea.
    09-30-2014 09:29 PM
  4. Joseph DeFrancesco's Avatar
    a BIG NO! Sorry.
    Why? If a Surface 2 can handle the desktop and let me access anything on my network, let me run remote powershell, why can't my phone handle that too when I need it?
    vb4 likes this.
    09-30-2014 10:34 PM
  5. DayDreaMer459's Avatar
    I'm totally with you on this one!
    I wish they could use that continuum(is that spelled correctly?) settings the same way when connecting the phone to like a docking station or whatever.
    10-01-2014 02:36 AM
  6. mikeycl's Avatar
    Wow. I've been on the Windows 10 Forum for about an hour and seen nothing but Knee jerk reactions and whining about a product that isn't complete and which nobody has gotten their hands on.

    Finally I hit a thread that actually has some intelligent content in it and asks a very good question.

    Thanks OP my hope for this forum was beginning to dwindle you have re-kindled my hopes. [Thumbs Up]

    I actually like the idea and think it could be a good one. Its feasibility however is another question. Others have tried this approach and failed (Motorola anyone?). Unless a big player like Microsoft or Apple try it then it is not likely to take off soon but i can picture a future where you carry one device (like a phone) that acts as a central point for a modular IT setup.

    I think if Canonical can pull it off with Ubuntu then others may start to take note.
    10-01-2014 04:31 AM
  7. altafmahmood's Avatar
    This is actually a very good idea. If microsoft can pull this off, it would be incredible. Quite a revolution..
    vb4 likes this.
    10-01-2014 04:38 AM
  8. a5cent's Avatar
    It's not feasable today, but what they could do is allow you to use a WP device as a remote desktop client, with mouse and keyboard connected over Bluetooth and the monitor connected over mini HDMI or miracast. MS could also allow you to host your Windows desktop on their azure servers which would allow for a professional and secure setup of such a virtual PC in seconds.
    10-01-2014 06:47 AM
  9. Joseph DeFrancesco's Avatar
    It's not feasable today, but what they could do is allow you to use a WP device as a remote desktop client, with mouse and keyboard connected over Bluetooth and the monitor connected over mini HDMI or miracast. MS could also allow you to host your Windows desktop on their azure servers which would allow for a professional and secure setup of such a virtual PC in seconds.
    Why is it not feasible? The ask is essentially RT on a phone. My Icon has a faster CPU than my Surface 2 has, it just needs a little more ram. If RT = Windows 10, and WP = Windows 10, if they truely are the same OS, I would like to have the option to enable this feature.

    Regarding Azure, I use it everyday, and love the platform, but there's no RemoteFX support yet, therefor no 3d acceleration through the remote session. I'd much rather be able to have a desktop when I plug my phone into something. From there I could of course rdp into Azure if I wanted...

    What I'm afraid of, is that Windows 10 is really not the same OS as MS says it is, and RT / x86 / Phone are very different, but it's the universal apps that makes them 'feel' the same...

    EDIT: To clarify, I don't just want 'the desktop', I really want the misc tools that come with having the desktop. Diskpart/MMC/scripting environments/etc. RDPing into a desktop right now isnt a problem, but what if I need one of those tools to run against something that's local, and the machine i'm remoting into is remote? Hopefully that makes more sense.
    Last edited by Joseph DeFrancesco; 10-01-2014 at 09:18 AM.
    10-01-2014 08:59 AM
  10. svenhassel's Avatar
    I would love this, and I remember that someone could run WinRT in a HTC HD2!

    However, MS will probably not implement it right now. Why? Because of the whiners. I have seen too many people complain that the desktop is "too small to be usable" in 8 inch tablets, instead of being happy that they have the option to display it using HDMI or whatever else.

    What I would do is limit the availability of the desktop in a cell phone to the case in which is actually connected to an external monitor.
    10-01-2014 02:48 PM
  11. Aresjr21's Avatar
    For me no simply because I don't have a use for this purpose. At the same time it does sound like a cool feature but it will be rarely used by a small niche of people. Still, I wouldn't be opposed to this as long as it doesn't degrade the quality of my phone experience.
    10-01-2014 03:32 PM
  12. Cleavitt76's Avatar
    Why is it not feasible? The ask is essentially RT on a phone. My Icon has a faster CPU than my Surface 2 has, it just needs a little more ram. If RT = Windows 10, and WP = Windows 10, if they truely are the same OS, I would like to have the option to enable this feature.

    Regarding Azure, I use it everyday, and love the platform, but there's no RemoteFX support yet, therefor no 3d acceleration through the remote session. I'd much rather be able to have a desktop when I plug my phone into something. From there I could of course rdp into Azure if I wanted...

    What I'm afraid of, is that Windows 10 is really not the same OS as MS says it is, and RT / x86 / Phone are very different, but it's the universal apps that makes them 'feel' the same...

    EDIT: To clarify, I don't just want 'the desktop', I really want the misc tools that come with having the desktop. Diskpart/MMC/scripting environments/etc. RDPing into a desktop right now isnt a problem, but what if I need one of those tools to run against something that's local, and the machine i'm remoting into is remote? Hopefully that makes more sense.
    To clarify, "Windows 10" is not going to be the same exact OS on x86, ARM, and phones. Windows 10 is a common marketing name for a collection of OSes that share a common core and have overlapping APIs. To some extent this already exists with Windows 8.x, WP8.x, and universal apps. MS is just taking it to the next level since the overlap is limited at this point.

    The Windows RT desktop and the software that can be run on it is extremely limited compared to the full x86 Windows Desktop. The hardware in a smart phone is extremely weak compared to any x86 desktop or laptop. Not just the CPU, but pretty much everything in those devices are very slow by comparison. This is by design because these devices are expected to run all day on a tiny battery. They will never be able to compete performance wise with a device that is plugged into a wall or a laptop which has a much bigger battery.

    In the full version of Windows, the components and subsystems that make up the "desktop" environment were not designed for ultra low power devices. They take up a lot of storage space, they run in the background whenever they please and use up processing/battery power (a big issue with Android is that it allows this behavior on a mobile device), and not all of it is easily ported from x86 to ARM.

    It is "possible" to bring all of the functionality (and complexity) of the full Windows desktop to a smart phone device now (provided a x86 chipset is used) and it has actually already been done on some obscure device, but given the current mobile hardware constraints it would lead to a very bad experience. This is what a5cent means when he says it's not feasible. However, as time goes on and the mobile hardware becomes more capable, it is quite possible that the mobile version of Windows will be less and less stripped down until eventually it is the same as the full version. Of course, you then have to consider the security ramifications of having a full general purpose OS that allows users to do whatever they want (good or bad) on a mobile device that is expected to "just work."
    Aresjr21 and a5cent like this.
    10-01-2014 03:33 PM
  13. a5cent's Avatar
    What I'm afraid of, is that Windows 10 is really not the same OS as MS says it is, and RT / x86 / Phone are very different, but it's the universal apps that makes them 'feel' the same...

    You are 100% correct about what will make end users think these are all the same OSes, when they are in fact not. As Cleavitt76 mentioned, it's a marketing term. All OSes will share the same kernel and the WinRT API and runtime, but that is where the similarities end. Apart from that, they are completely different. In particular, the tablet/phone version of Windows 10 will omit the desktop environment and a few gigabytes worth of legacy features and functionality typically associated with Windows. That is simply a necessity if MS hopes to compete with Android tablets on price.

    Cleavitt76 pretty mich answered everything already. In particular his point about desktop applications and battery life is very important.
    10-01-2014 05:09 PM
  14. Christian Kallevig's Avatar
    Desktop off of a phone a la Ubuntu?... Probably not.

    But I see no reason why the UI couldn't scale up to a tablet-style UI. Any universal app should be capable of this, and there's no reason that the OS itself couldn't adapt as well, though I'm not sure what the best way to execute this would be. If we're talking a tablet that is just a dumb dock for your phone then I guess that could work, but it wouldn't be terribly practical with the multitude of very different phones out there. If you're just sending an image to a second screen, then it would have to be touch, since you can't really scale up a UI that still needs to be navigated from the phone... And then why not just have that display just be a tablet or a PC and forget the phone all together? I doubt the wireless connection would be simple or reliable enough to be worth the effort.

    Maybe this kind of thing will take off in the future, but they way I see things it doesn't make sense quite yet... Even if the limitation is not with the OS itself.
    10-01-2014 10:39 PM
  15. Roderick Aspiras's Avatar
    Well because there is no desktop in Windows Phone. Be reasonable. Why would you want that? Just connect an 8 inch tablet. WP uses a different CPU not intel so don't make it a desktop machine. Maybe in your dreams it will come true.
    10-01-2014 11:37 PM
  16. DayDreaMer459's Avatar
    Well maybe some people just want to carry fewer and lighter devices. If everything is in a single device, I mean isn't that pretty handy?
    10-02-2014 06:07 AM
  17. Cleavitt76's Avatar
    Well maybe some people just want to carry fewer and lighter devices. If everything is in a single device, I mean isn't that pretty handy?
    Sure, in another 10 years or so. Maybe at that point the average smart phone will have enough processing power to handle most peoples computing needs. A "desktop" or "laptop" or "tablet" might just be a dumb screen and keyboard that act as an interface to your phone. So you would have one device/OS with different interfaces that connect to it as peripherals. The "desktop" features would show up when connected to the appropriate interface and be mostly hidden when you are only using the phone by itself.

    We have a long way to go though. It's not going to coincide with Windows 10. Perhaps the hardware will get there by the time Windows 9 is released. I heard that Windows 9 is going to be the version after Windows 23 in the Microsoft numbering system though. :/
    10-03-2014 11:54 PM
  18. orangeman34's Avatar
    Yeah it would be awesome if they could pull that off.
    10-04-2014 12:13 AM
  19. psgenious's Avatar
    i really want a desktop view in wp .
    it would be good to show off and a featured file manager too.
    10-04-2014 01:04 AM
  20. Joseph DeFrancesco's Avatar
    Good to know that MS is actually doing almost everything I could've wanted when I made this thread. The moment we have Atom based phones and the options for PowerShell, I'll be in love...
    04-29-2015 01:07 PM
  21. a5cent's Avatar
    ^ I don't think you got any of the things you originally asked for. You're not getting the desktop, nor are you getting desktop software. What you're getting is a phone that can switch to a second UI mode when being displayed on a larger screen, like a TV, while simultaneously supporting mouse and keyboard input.

    I think this is a great thing and I'm really looking forward to trying this out! However, MS specifically refers this this as a desktop-like experience, because it's not the desktop. What MS showed us is not what most people think of when they say they want a phone with desktop capabilities. Specifically, it won't run any of the Win32 software. You provided the perfect example by stating what you want the desktop for, namely to run Win32 desktop software like Diskpart/MMC/scripting environments/etc. None of those will run in the desktop-like environment MS demonstrated today, because it's not the desktop.

    Like I said, that which we typically call the desktop environment isn't feasible, nor even really desirable on phones (for the reasons Cleavitt76 mentioned). Personally, I think you're getting something better, provided you can do without Win32 software like those titles you mentioned.

    What I'm afraid of, is that Windows 10 is really not the same OS as MS says it is, and RT / x86 / Phone are very different, but it's the universal apps that makes them 'feel' the same...
    Which is exactly how it is.
    Last edited by a5cent; 04-29-2015 at 03:23 PM. Reason: spelling
    04-29-2015 03:09 PM
  22. Ma Rio's Avatar
    This will be another feature that's out there, but noone will use it. I had something similar on my older phone. You could connect it to a mouse and keyboard (USB and/or Bluetooth) and to a TV/Monitor via HDMI, and it would seem like a PC. But it truly went unused. Nobody cared about it because you could just do it on your phone. It's too much trouble for just having a bigger screen (which isn't that much of a benefit). Not to mention you had to carry all the cables and things you wanted to use around (unless they are stationary somewhere).

    All in all, it's OK. I can see people using it, and there probably will be people using it, but it's nothing worth freaking out about. Not even close.
    04-29-2015 06:03 PM

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