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04-01-2015 12:16 PM
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  1. anon(5969054)'s Avatar
    Newsflash: MS is working their asses off right now trying to get W10 features to be as good as possible AS WELL AS stable as possible. It is harder than you think to make lots of OS changes and enhancements. I am pretty sure they have lots of people paying attention to the feedback.
    Newsflash for you: The people that do UI have their own work. They are not dependent on other teams that work on features and stability. They should have a clear vision where the UI will go. And it appears they don't have that vision.
    03-21-2015 09:07 PM
  2. Asskickulater's Avatar
    Newsflash for you: The people that do UI have their own work. They are not dependent on other teams that work on features and stability. They should have a clear vision where the UI will go. And it appears they don't have that vision.
    Newsflash, ui polish is always one of the last things an OS gets merged with the main branch.

    now can we stop newsflashing each other condescendingly?
    anon(9308532) likes this.
    03-21-2015 09:27 PM
  3. Grimlock's Avatar
    Complaint or observation?

    By your logic, wouldn't you be guilty of the same thing you're accusing me of?
    No I was pointing out the inconsistency of your statement. While some may disagree with my points, I actually contributed something constructive to this thread.
    03-21-2015 10:31 PM
  4. Microsoftjunkie's Avatar
    I haven't read everyone's post, but it sounds like most people are forgetting continuum. I love the fact that there isnt a full mesh between desktop and metro. I love the ability to connect wirelessly or through mini hdmi and have a familiar but robust desktop experience using my wireless keyboard. I like the fact there are two separate worlds. Hopefully MS find a way to combine the two slightly more. Two user interfaces for multiple users and scenarios.

    Windows is way more powerful than Android and IOS and there needs a way to keep that power user e existence while not trying to be like the other os's.

    Windows 10 will be another chapter in great user experiences and functionality.
    03-21-2015 10:44 PM
  5. Luuthian's Avatar
    and in exactly what way is it easier to do sometihng in w7 with a keyboard and mouse thats harder in windows 10, give a specific example.
    Ease of use wasn't where I was going here. It's the feeling and general approach of the platform.

    For example, a number of the metro apps still scroll from left to right. This makes sense on a tablet and touch device but not on a desktop. Mouse wheels scroll up and down, it doesn't come off right when the screen moves horizontally with a vertically shaped tool. Microsoft has adjusted their new Beta Store to correct this (to a point, as it's still obviously based on finger swipes seeing as you need to click an icon to swing the app bands left and right) but other apps still work horizontally for some reason.

    The size of the Metro icons and the way they open into very tablet/cellphone like apps with hamburger bars and such is also heavily geared towards a finger based approach. Most PC screens have plenty of real estate to combat things like this, allowing more information on the screen (much like how iPad apps require a pull out tab much less often than their cellphone versions).

    What I'm saying here is not that things are more difficult for mouse users but that numerous parts of Windows 10 have structured the design language around touch oriented devices. It feels a little weird, especially when the point of a desktop is that you have a vertically oriented scrolling tool and a mouse to click things. You do not have a finger to swipe and navigate fluently in multiple directions. The experience is a little... Off. It functions, sure, but it doesn't quite feel right. Although, having looked at more videos of Windows 10 on a tablet (since I don't own a Windows one) I think jhoff80 is correct: The tablet version is the one that suffers most from this strange combination of design languages.

    I still prefer Windows as a work/game machine but I believe Apple is making the right move when it comes to combining desktop and cellphone experiences. It makes sense for the devices to talk and extend unto each other as opposed to forcing them to share aspects of one another that don't quite fit.
    03-22-2015 12:15 AM
  6. Asskickulater's Avatar
    Ease of use wasn't where I was going here. It's the feeling and general approach of the platform.

    For example, a number of the metro apps still scroll from left to right. This makes sense on a tablet and touch device but not on a desktop. Mouse wheels scroll up and down, it doesn't come off right when the screen moves horizontally with a vertically shaped tool. Microsoft has adjusted their new Beta Store to correct this (to a point, as it's still obviously based on finger swipes seeing as you need to click an icon to swing the app bands left and right) but other apps still work horizontally for some reason.

    The size of the Metro icons and the way they open into very tablet/cellphone like apps with hamburger bars and such is also heavily geared towards a finger based approach. Most PC screens have plenty of real estate to combat things like this, allowing more information on the screen (much like how iPad apps require a pull out tab much less often than their cellphone versions).

    What I'm saying here is not that things are more difficult for mouse users but that numerous parts of Windows 10 have structured the design language around touch oriented devices. It feels a little weird, especially when the point of a desktop is that you have a vertically oriented scrolling tool and a mouse to click things. You do not have a finger to swipe and navigate fluently in multiple directions. The experience is a little... Off. It functions, sure, but it doesn't quite feel right. Although, having looked at more videos of Windows 10 on a tablet (since I don't own a Windows one) I think jhoff80 is correct: The tablet version is the one that suffers most from this strange combination of design languages.

    I still prefer Windows as a work/game machine but I believe Apple is making the right move when it comes to combining desktop and cellphone experiences. It makes sense for the devices to talk and extend unto each other as opposed to forcing them to share aspects of one another that don't quite fit.
    Ok, so what I've got from this is that

    A) you are whiining about something you see microsoft actively fixing (vertical scrolling)

    B) apparently uniform menus is something thats only good on touch screen devices? Don't get this one at all

    C) clicking words that scroll left or right? Whats the bloody difference from programs that just change once you click a button? The only difference is you get a nice animation with this one..
    Last edited by Asskickulater; 03-22-2015 at 03:03 AM.
    03-22-2015 01:04 AM
  7. Dietrich Cleijne's Avatar
    Isn't it a bit wiser to wait untill the final release of Windows 10?
    Complaints about a not finished product will lead to nothing, serious criticism regarding some issues might be worth while though.
    Kevin Rush likes this.
    03-22-2015 05:29 AM
  8. anon(5969054)'s Avatar
    Isn't it a bit wiser to wait untill the final release of Windows 10?
    Complaints about a not finished product will lead to nothing, serious criticism regarding some issues might be worth while though.
    No. Criticism is needed now. When you see them come up with such icons it is time to warn them. W10 cannot afford to be a catastrofe when it launches. It would be too late.

    Some people here get me wrong.
    I am all for one OS for tablets and desktops and the UI should change with continuum. But only the spacing and some menu systems should change. The general design language should always stay the same. And it seems with continuum they don't care to get the same design language for both worlds.
    Grimlock and Kram Sacul like this.
    03-22-2015 06:06 AM
  9. Dietrich Cleijne's Avatar
    I do think they care, and i am sure they are going to nail it.
    03-22-2015 10:14 AM
  10. Tsang Fai's Avatar
    I don't agree that W10 is like an OS "with two mixed worlds".

    Microsoft is trying to provide users with a more consistent working experience across devices (desktop, laptop, tablet, phones). Such a consistency is very important. As users, we are tired of searching for apps across devices, for just doing the same task. We are also tired of getting our devices into the same settings.

    If your desktop OS and mobile OS come from the same company, for what reason would you like to work on two inconsistent UIs? We can accept that the mobile OS has less functionalities, but we expect the same UI experience.

    As smartphones are becoming more and more powerful, and mobile network is getting faster and faster, we should all agree that smartphone has become an vital device for working/playing (e-mails, calendars, documents, music, ...). A consistent UI is therefore of utmost importance to users.

    If you say different devices are of "different worlds", then you are wasting your time on learning how to do the same thing on "different worlds". As users, the primary focus is on working & playing, but not on learning how to use an OS. A good OS takes users minimal time on learning.

    Those people making unnecessarily too much criticism on Win8/10 most probably just hate Microsoft.

    It is a very old mindset to think that desktop computers and mobile devices are two different "worlds". There would never be smartphones if we think that browsing on the Internet could only happen in a desktop computer. There would be no tablets if we think that watching movies could only happen in a desktop computer.
    Arquimaes likes this.
    03-22-2015 10:35 AM
  11. EMINENT 1's Avatar
    Icons? Really?

    I couldn't care less what the icons look like.

    If you want different worlds, you have that experience now on other platforms. Just go.
    Jazmac and Dk92 like this.
    03-22-2015 03:09 PM
  12. Jazmac's Avatar
    Icons? Really?

    I couldn't care less what the icons look like.

    If you want different worlds, you have that experience now on other platforms. Just go.
    Exactly my point.
    Nothing wrong with theming Windows if that is what you want to do. There are plenty of products on the market that will allow you to do extraordinary things with the desktop. I mentioned my experience with WindowBlinds from Stardock.com. That outfit has tons of em. Alienware is another product that does it. Its your own world to transform your own desktop to whatever you want it to look like. For the majority, its about the icon you click to launch whatever application you need to run. Its just that simple.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    03-22-2015 06:11 PM
  13. Protocol Rahul's Avatar
    I think that the Tablet mode should optimize the entire desktop, explorer for touch use including office, cause right now it is just few apps, whereas I want to navigate the whole OS using the touch screen. with the current situation I feel start screen/menu as just a formality for touch users, what I mean is now even with 50ish apps it is just one page, unlike windows 8 with the amount of apps I had, It felt good to navigate the start screen using touch.
    I think they should add more gestures, like the phone version.
    03-23-2015 05:36 AM
  14. tangledW's Avatar
    No I was pointing out the inconsistency of your statement. While some may disagree with my points, I actually contributed something constructive to this thread.
    Being a **** isn't much of a contribution.
    03-23-2015 06:25 AM
  15. bridder's Avatar
    Just a general comment looking through the posts about meshing desktop and modern design, I think Microsoft have an impossible task here, so many people use windows it's going to be impossible to please all the people all the time; I just don't think there is any one design or paradigm that Microsoft will hit on that everyone just says, "Good job MS, spot on".

    Probably sound like captain obvious here, it certainly seems this way to me.
    03-23-2015 06:57 AM
  16. swanlee's Avatar
    Funny cause the Tablet mode and swipe features and expanded start menu are MUCH MUCH worse on tablets than Win 8.1 was.

    To a Tablet user Win 10 feels more like trying to use Win 7 on a tablet. It is probably a case of Ms trying to please everyone and ******* off everyone at the same time.

    Win 10 for Desktop is a much improved experience and for Tablets it is a horrible downgrade over Win 8.1
    03-23-2015 07:43 AM
  17. Protocol Rahul's Avatar
    ... for Tablets it is a horrible downgrade over Win 8.1
    I won't say horrid, at least for me it is a touch enabled laptop so its quite fine, but one can understand it is no longer fun to use on touch laptops or for your tablet. They can improve on this bit even if it is a compromise. App view is fine using gesture, but the start screen is a put off. Seriously for me I have to tap that windows logo in corner to access(yes I could just press key on the keyboard.)
    Other than that, notification centre + action centre no longer includes the brightness control and volume control which is difficult if I tried to access using touch.
    03-23-2015 09:16 AM
  18. yihong kang's Avatar
    Icons and functionality of modern apps are not important at this stage. Those things can be easily changed after the release of windows 10.

    If you really care about icons, there will be plenty of programs to change them. For most users, how the icons look like doesn't matter that much (many people don't even change the default wallpaper or ringtone).
    For now, modern apps already have some advantages over desktop counterparts in win8.1 (dynamic scale, fluidity, efficiency), but they are holding back by limited API and not inability to run in windows. Once windows 10 get released, there will be more useful APIs to make those modern apps even more powerful.

    The only thing that I really don't like is the always visible taskbar. If them can make the taskbar autohide in tablet mode and start screen more beautiful, I will upgrade everything in my home (tablets, 2 in 1, laptop and desktop) to windows 10.
    03-23-2015 02:38 PM
  19. ashram's Avatar
    Desktop users are mostly power users
    False... if you have ever done enterprise level IT support, you would know that desktop users are mostly NOT power users. Working previously at a job that had 5000+ users and another with 500+ per site (i jumped around 3 of 20+ sites) most users were not the smartest, and VERY few of them (15-30 people total) would barely qualify as a power user.
    03-23-2015 02:49 PM
  20. ahumeniy's Avatar
    False... if you have ever done enterprise level IT support, you would know that desktop users are mostly NOT power users. Working previously at a job that had 5000+ users and another with 500+ per site (i jumped around 3 of 20+ sites) most users were not the smartest, and VERY few of them (15-30 people total) would barely qualify as a power user.
    If power users are not using modern apps is because there are few apps for them. I would love to have official server management tools as modern apps. I would love to have a modern explorer built-in. How about a modern powershell console?
    03-23-2015 04:22 PM
  21. spch's Avatar
    False... if you have ever done enterprise level IT support, you would know that desktop users are mostly NOT power users. Working previously at a job that had 5000+ users and another with 500+ per site (i jumped around 3 of 20+ sites) most users were not the smartest, and VERY few of them (15-30 people total) would barely qualify as a power user.
    I will rephrase, desktop users expect more productivity from their OS than smartphone/touch screen users who mostly expect to stay connected to their social circle and have the latest apps/games.
    03-23-2015 04:53 PM
  22. ashram's Avatar
    I will rephrase, Some desktop users expect more productivity from their OS than smartphone/touch screen users who mostly expect to stay connected to their social circle and have the latest apps/games.
    corrected your statement :) I consider myself a power user (and in IT) and i really don't get your issue. I can still do everything i was able to do with my previous OS and enjoy the modern ui on my touch AND non-touch devices. At home that means my Surface Pro 2 and 4 non-touch desktops.

    Granted, I will say, in an enterprise environment (Windows 8 Enterprise edition) MS should have stuck with the classic start mention. For the everyday consumer version, it's time to accept change. Windows has basically looked the same since Windows 95. The same basic layout, organization, everything. it's time to move on.
    03-23-2015 05:35 PM
  23. Iain_S's Avatar
    I said touch stuff not tablet mode stuff, there is really nothing put into the builds yet for gestures and swipes and stuff for touch devices.
    03-25-2015 06:50 PM
  24. Dimon Daemon's Avatar
    Desktop users are mostly power users and by grouping them with tablet users Microsoft just dumbed down the whole OS.

    Microsoft is now trying to replace Control Panel, I will see how they replace Administrative Tools or port it to a Modern UI.
    My Grandma does not agree with you
    04-01-2015 05:01 AM
  25. awilliams1701's Avatar
    I'm not liking the start menu. The original version of W10 had a great start menu. Its was completely customizable. Now its not. It forces 4 columns of metro icons on you. I only want 1 column. Even removing ALL the icons it still has a giant gap. Will it work? yes Is it good? no

    Hello! You promised us a fully customizable start menu and took it away!
    04-01-2015 11:28 AM
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