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04-29-2015 03:17 PM
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  1. Skulls138's Avatar
    If WP turns to Android apps, I'll probably be leaving. I left Android to forget about it 100%.
    Nogitsune Micah likes this.
    04-28-2015 11:15 PM
  2. Wbutchart1's Avatar
    Here's a theory - what if windows have found a way to port android apps to windows 10 universal apps?

    One of the major objections is that it interferes with windows current strategy, I agree that would not make sense, what if it doesn't through, what if these are universal apps, changed by some Microsoft creativity from android to windows with minimal work from developers?
    prasath1234 likes this.
    04-29-2015 03:55 AM
  3. rhapdog's Avatar
    If you look at the "what to expect from Build 2015" article and read the comments, Daniel says that adding Android app support to the UAP is what he's leaning on. Tom Warren has teased it multiple times on Twitter, sometimes flat out saying it.
    Tom Warren is not what I'd call a reliable source. He loves sensationalism and click-bait, and has been known to be wrong quite often.

    I'm not saying it won't happen, just that we should really wait until after the announcements to see what will actually happen, then we'll know what to discuss.
    04-29-2015 03:59 AM
  4. a5cent's Avatar
    ^ Exactly.

    90% of this thread seems premature to me. For this particular topic, the details matter more than they did for any other issue discussed here in years.

    If true, I'm hoping for Android emulation. Android apps will then run rather poorly, and we'll need a 3GB device to offer the same experience as a 2GB Android or 1GB WP8.1 device, but at least the OS we know and love will remain intact.

    The alternative involves MS making fundamental changes to WP, aligning it more closely with Android, in particular WP's security (e.g. sandboxing) and runtime models (e.g. background tasks). It's not worth getting into the details at this point, but if that's MS' approach, then WP will no longer be the WP that we know and love, but something else, which will require us to reevaluate whether we still like it.

    Those are huge differences. Assuming the rumor is even true, without more information, it's impossible to say where this is all headed.
    Last edited by a5cent; 04-29-2015 at 05:38 AM.
    N_LaRUE, prasath1234 and Guytronic like this.
    04-29-2015 05:11 AM
  5. Soulstream's Avatar
    BB10 already tried this and failed miserably. They had an Android runtime from the beginning, that allowed devs to port their Android apps (apk)to the native BB10 format (.bar files). Some ported popular apps include Skype and Viber. The side-effect was that some apps that were fully native started to be replaced with ported android apps. Right now, BB10 can run pure apk's as well, but are laggy and sometimes buggy. Of course apps that require Google Play services need to be patched in order to work properly.

    If you visit our neighbours at Crackberry, there is a "workaround" mentality towards apps. If a user needs an app that is not available in their app stores (yes they have 2 app-stores) the responses will be: "you must use version A of app X, patch it with tool Y, sideload it, ignore Z number of warnings and sometimes slow performance and you can use the app". This is not something general consumers should have to go through. Android apps in BB10 may have filled the needs of loyal customers, but has done very very little to increase sales.

    So far nobody had success in the western world with an Android phone without Google Play services. I also think that a side-effect of WP10 running Android apks (if the rumor proves true) is that Google might force apps in its own store to use Google play services and that prevent apps from properly running on non-Google Android phones.
    04-29-2015 06:03 AM
  6. Nogitsune Micah's Avatar
    BB10 already tried this and failed miserably. They had an Android runtime from the beginning, that allowed devs to port their Android apps (apk)to the native BB10 format (.bar files). Some ported popular apps include Skype and Viber. The side-effect was that some apps that were fully native started to be replaced with ported android apps. Right now, BB10 can run pure apk's as well, but are laggy and sometimes buggy. Of course apps that require Google Play services need to be patched in order to work properly.

    If you visit our neighbours at Crackberry, there is a "workaround" mentality towards apps. If a user needs an app that is not available in their app stores (yes they have 2 app-stores) the responses will be: "you must use version A of app X, patch it with tool Y, sideload it, ignore Z number of warnings and sometimes slow performance and you can use the app". This is not something general consumers should have to go through. Android apps in BB10 may have filled the needs of loyal customers, but has done very very little to increase sales.

    So far nobody had success in the western world with an Android phone without Google Play services. I also think that a side-effect of WP10 running Android apks (if the rumor proves true) is that Google might force apps in its own store to use Google play services and that prevent apps from properly running on non-Google Android phones.
    Shh. You're making sense ;)
    Sseriously though thank you for this reply.


    That does make me wonder if google does do something like that wouldn't that have adverse effects on blackberry and windows?
    Last edited by Superboy Micah; 04-29-2015 at 08:20 AM.
    04-29-2015 06:41 AM
  7. Soulstream's Avatar
    SAhh. You're making sense ;)
    Sseriously though thank you for this reply.


    That does make me wonder if google does do something like that wouldn't that have adverse effects on blackberry and windows?
    It already has adverse effect on BB10 as some apps in Google play use google play services for certain tasks. So far Google hasn't done anything to prevent such practices due to the very small market share of BB10 devices. But BB10 + WP10 might just be big enough to make Google take action.
    stenson625 and prasath1234 like this.
    04-29-2015 06:53 AM
  8. a5cent's Avatar
    It already has adverse effect on BB10 as some apps in Google play use google play services for certain tasks. So far Google hasn't done anything to prevent such practices due to the very small market share of BB10 devices. But BB10 + WP10 might just be big enough to make Google take action.
    I don't see this as a big issue at all.

    If the usage is local, an emulator need only replace calls to Google's apps with calls to MS' equivalents.

    If the usage is remote (accesses Google's servers), an emulator need only rewrite the URL so as to reroute such requests to one of MS' own servers. Consider this runtime patching, based not on deactivating /suppressing the interaction, but on replacing Google's involvement in the interaction.

    That's very hard to do if you're BB who doesn't run equivalent services, but not that big of a deal for MS.
    prasath1234 likes this.
    04-29-2015 07:19 AM
  9. Nogitsune Micah's Avatar
    I don't see this as a big issue at all.

    If the usage is local, an emulator need only replace calls to Google's apps with calls to MS' equivalents.

    If the usage is remote (accesses Google's servers), an emulator need only rewrite the URL so as to reroute such requests to one of MS' own servers. Consider this runtime patching, based not on deactivating /suppressing the interaction, but on replacing Google's involvement in the interaction.

    That's very hard to do if you're BB who doesn't run equivalent services, but not that big of a deal for MS.
    Unless google does something completely left field to change access. Wouldn't be surprising really.
    It makes me wonder about the developers of these apps . Would they be okay with this and if not, would they have any grounds for complaint.
    prasath1234 likes this.
    04-29-2015 08:19 AM
  10. matt john2's Avatar
    Lol this cracks me up, is Microsoft really that desperate they start eating their own pride? Hope this isn't true
    04-29-2015 08:49 AM
  11. wpfan86's Avatar
    So here are my concerns:
    1. Doesn't allowing Android apps to run on Windows phones completely remove any incentive for a developer to make/update a native windows app? Or are we talking about Microsoft allowing developers to make only minor changes to make their current Android app a universal Windows app?
    2. Wouldn't a ported Android app or app running in an emulator be missing some of the most important Windows phone features? (functioning live tile, lock screen integration, Cortana integration)
    prasath1234 likes this.
    04-29-2015 09:15 AM
  12. a5cent's Avatar
    Unless google does something completely left field to change access. Wouldn't be surprising really.
    It makes me wonder about the developers of these apps . Would they be okay with this and if not, would they have any grounds for complaint.
    You don't understand.

    With those two changes I mentioned, Android apps would no longer access any of Google's services. Those apps will think they are, because they'd function no differently than they otherwise would, but what they'd actually access is an MS service that is posing as a Google service. If those apps aren't actually accessing anything from Google, then Google can block access to whatever they want. It matters not.

    1. Doesn't allowing Android apps to run on Windows phones completely remove any incentive for a developer to make/update a native windows app? Or are we talking about Microsoft allowing developers to make only minor changes to make their current Android app a universal Windows app?
    Nobody knows. It depends on the details, or the fine print if you will. It's why this entire discussion is premature.

    2. Wouldn't a ported Android app or app running in an emulator be missing some of the most important Windows phone features? (functioning live tile, lock screen integration, Cortana integration)
    Yes.
    Last edited by a5cent; 04-29-2015 at 10:05 AM. Reason: spelling
    RumoredNow and prasath1234 like this.
    04-29-2015 09:26 AM
  13. fatclue_98's Avatar
    That's very hard to do if you're BB who doesn't run equivalent services, but not that big of a deal for MS.
    It's not a big deal it seems for BB either. I use this patch to remove dependencies from whatever apk is requesting Google services. With the Google dependencies removed, the app uses the BB services for location, etc. It's a very easy process. Cobalt is the Cotulla of BlackBerry.

    How to patch Android Apps depending on Google Maps and Google Play Services - BlackBerry Forums at CrackBerry.com
    a5cent and prasath1234 like this.
    04-29-2015 09:35 AM
  14. a5cent's Avatar
    ^ Yes and no. What you're pointing out is that this works just fine for any Google service that BB has their own equivalent of. The location service is one good example. However, BB doesn't have equivalents for every one of Google's services, nor are these services built in a day. That's where BB runs into trouble. That's where MS is less likely to run into serious trouble.
    04-29-2015 10:03 AM
  15. saras112's Avatar
    Stop. They're not announcing Android apps for Windows 10, or apk support. They are just making it a lot easier for developers to transfer they're apps to Windows.
    prasath1234 likes this.
    04-29-2015 10:11 AM
  16. fatclue_98's Avatar
    BB10 already tried this and failed miserably. They had an Android runtime from the beginning, that allowed devs to port their Android apps (apk)to the native BB10 format (.bar files).
    Your post is based on very outdated information. This is no longer the case.
    04-29-2015 10:21 AM
  17. fatclue_98's Avatar
    ^ Yes and no. What you're pointing out is that this works just fine for any Google service that BB has their own equivalent of. The location service is one good example. However, BB doesn't have equivalents for every one of Google's services, nor are these services built in a day. That's where BB runs into trouble. That's where MS is less likely to run into serious trouble.
    You may be correct since I only use a handful of Android apps. However, the ones I do use work perfectly and the few I've had to patch (PayPal, Walgreens & Tapatalk) work flawlessly as well. Let me also point out that I use some Android apps only because they have more functionality than the native BB apps.

    As I've tried to explain before, this can only help the platform because it gives the user a choice. In BlackBerry's case, it wasn't a decision to replace the native app store, it was to augment the selection.
    prasath1234 likes this.
    04-29-2015 10:30 AM
  18. ShaneRay's Avatar
    While we wait for clarification to come from Build (hopefully) today. I'm just gonna clarify my "...bad news for the platform...." comment.

    As others seem to focusing on, it's not Android apps being available--in whatever form-- on Windows Phone that's the problem. No. It's, instead, the reason for even considering that move that is the problem.

    Someone said earlier that, if true, it's "a shot across the bow". A war cry.

    Nope.

    If true, it's a final grasp at a floating branch before going under.

    That's where I'm coming from.

    But, again, this is all just speculation. True or not, only time is going to tell the fate of the mobile platform we've all chosen. Interesting times ahead, folks. ;)
    prasath1234 likes this.
    04-29-2015 10:56 AM
  19. a5cent's Avatar
    As I've tried to explain before, this can only help the platform because it gives the user a choice. In BlackBerry's case, it wasn't a decision to replace the native app store, it was to augment the selection.
    I disagree that it can only help the platform.

    It might help. It also has the potential to destroy WP as a viable independent OS. Like I said in my first post, this is very risky business. We can't know which way this is intended to go at this point, simply because we have almost no information. I've always been sceptical of these rumours, primarily because I don't think MS would risk this approach if it was anything but a last ditch effort. I'm not saying it's BS, because maybe MS thinks now is the time for that last ditch effort, but I'll believe it only when I see it. Until then, there are just too many open questions to take any side in this discussion. At least that's my opinion.
    prasath1234 likes this.
    04-29-2015 11:00 AM
  20. fatclue_98's Avatar
    I'm not saying it's BS, because maybe MS thinks now is the time for that last ditch effort, but I'll believe it only when I see it.
    If Microsoft has decided this is a last ditch effort, then you would be correct. Perhaps the "unification" isn't going as well as expected and the phone OS will have to remain as a separate entity. If this is the case, yes, it has to be a last gasp because the "way we were" is clearly not working.

    I'm still optimistic based on the 2 weeks I had the TP on my 1520. But for all the bells and whistles we may get, if the keyboard remains as it is on the TP, it will all be for naught because my 1520 will remain on Denim. No sense in having a 6" display to have a larger keyboard for my fat fingers if they're going to reduce it to the size of a 635 keyboard. Wait, maybe I can get an Android Swift keyboard. Sorry, I couldn't resist. It's raining cats and dogs in Miami and I'm stuck in the office.
    prasath1234 likes this.
    04-29-2015 11:11 AM
  21. Pierre Blackwell's Avatar
    In retrospect MSFT is putting themselves in a position where they could ask the proverbial question "what's keeping you from choosing a Windows phone"
    fatclue_98 and prasath1234 like this.
    04-29-2015 11:17 AM
  22. Torcher Death's Avatar
    If Android apps do come to WP, it could go 2 ways -

    Pessimistic: Devs give up on native apps for WP & just work on the Android ones leading to crappy apps with major inconsistencies.
    Optimistic: The android apps help increase market share of WP, after which devs want to compete & hence make native apps for WP.

    Only time will tell how this turns out... for now listening in on Build !!
    EssThree and prasath1234 like this.
    04-29-2015 11:43 AM
  23. EssThree's Avatar
    04-29-2015 12:00 PM
  24. Dr_8820's Avatar
    Good, because my Android phone runs like crap while my WP doesn't crash like that.

    Sent from my Nokia Lumia 1520 using Tapatalk
    04-29-2015 12:31 PM
  25. rhapdog's Avatar
    Yeah, they've already talked about this at build. They are NOT going to allow Android apps to run on Windows. They ARE going to allow devs to reuse their Java and C++ to compile native Windows 10 apps, and allow them to access the full Windows 10 API from Java/C++.

    This is the way it should be done.

    They are also making it easy to recompile iOS Objective C for Windows 10 as well.

    This is pretty awesome.
    04-29-2015 12:36 PM
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