04-04-2012 06:31 AM
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  1. Frenzytom's Avatar
    In Verizon, the only WP phone, the Trophy not just in the sea of Androids but might had drowned in them.
    03-31-2012 10:36 PM
  2. the_tyrant's Avatar
    If webos started off as an operating system that could be put on all kinds of hardware than it could have succeed.

    I mean, the original pre was horrendous. Never had a problem with a palm device, the original pre screwed over the reputation of palm.

    At the time the Iphone had no real competitor, Palm should have marketed webos as a competing operating system, instead of a device.

    As for developer support. I mean, on one hand, you have the millions of .net developers, but on the other hand, there are millions of web developers too.
    04-01-2012 07:10 AM
  3. zeteo313's Avatar
    My lumia once it arrives will be my first windows phone but I am excited and can see myself enjoying this OS. I have had all OSs and have been there from the beginning on android , iOS and it was the same. Little apps, missing functionality and every iteration got better. Only blackberry didn't move forward. Just look at the difference with windows mobile and now windows phone. Or mango and the coming Apollo they are on the right path
    My sentiments exactly!
    04-01-2012 08:23 AM
  4. cckgz4's Avatar
    Eh. Again, I don't see quantity being "helpful" in this situation. If anything, the Nokia will put WP7 on the map with all the promotion it's doing. IMO, if they want to keep consumers using WP7, I think having more current apps would be a good substance. Loved my HD7 to death and the fact that I could use Zune, but I couldn't do Words With Friends (at its peak) or check out other things my friends were getting into. I miss WP7 a lot because of how slick the OS was, but I didn't leave because of the lack of phones. To be honest, it's refreshing NOT to have a plethora of phones outdating each other within a month and you can get almost the same experience on any WP device
    04-02-2012 07:00 PM
  5. dyne2199's Avatar
    The Lumia 900 will give Microsoft the push they need for Windows Phone to gain traction. I look at this situation a lot like I did the XBox launch back in 2001 when I was managing at Gamestop. Nintendo and Sony had been ruling the roost for so long that no one felt that another competitor could enter the market successfully, let alone survive amongst the 2 titans (Nintendo and Sony back then, iPhone and Android in today's times), especially with the impending collapse of Sega (today's webOS and Blackberry). Then, the Xbox launched along with a little known game called Halo and the rest is history. It may have taken a little longer to get the real party started, but the Nokia Lumia 900 is to Windows Phone as Halo was to the original XBox. Tighten your seat belts and enjoy the ride, kids! :-D
    04-02-2012 07:36 PM
  6. bobsentell's Avatar
    Two articles of interest:

    ICS reaches 2.9%.

    Android Hardware Fragmentation

    OS Stagnation
    Only 2.9% of Android users are using the most up to date version. 2.3.3 was released on 9 February 2011. Just to give you some perspective, HP introduced the TouchPad at a conference the same exact day. It has since been released, crashed, cancelled, been shuffled around, and been open sourced. All the while, the bulk of Android users have been using the same exact version.

    Another way to look at this is to compare it to iOS. A month after Android 2.3.3 came out, iOS 4.3 came out along with some device called the iPad2. iOS 4.X devices make up only 18% of all iOS devices and that is because the iPhone 3G and iPod Touch (2nd generation) were EOL.

    Mango also came to life around the time of 2.3.3. It too has seen a minor fix since then and is scheduled for a major overhaul by the EOTY.



    Device Fragmentation
    Speaking to The Next Web, Smith outlines the top six Android devices running his Audiobooks and Audiobooks Free apps based on 1.3 million downloads:
    • Droid X (7.8 percent of users)
    • Samsung Galaxy S2 (4.3 percent)
    • Droid (4 percent)
    • HTC Desire HD (4 percent)
    • HTC Evo 4G (3.7 percent)
    • Droid incredible (2.3 percent)

    Remember, these are the top six devices out of a total of 1,443. Factor in the Android version that these devices are running, Smith says that half of the users are running Android 2.3.3 and then the rest are on versions ranging from 1.6 to 4.0.3. No developer can be expected to support hundreds of devices running a variety of aging platforms.

    By comparison, with 8 to 10 different iOS devices, Smith says he can cover 100 percent of iOS users. To do the same with Android he would need thousands of test devices, and then test the software across all devices and platforms - an impossible task.
    Thus the downside of open source rears its ugly head. Google cannot force companies to upgrade. Therefore Samsung and company have no incentive to upgrade their older devices to newer versions of Android. Why spend money trying to get old hardware to work with newer versions of Android when that labor can be better spent on new products?

    Apple can get around that because they control both hardware and software. But beyond driver support, Samsung has no control over Android. HTC goes so far as to write their own UI. And Amazon only uses the core of Android and uses its own shell.

    Microsoft is approaching the mobile market like they did the desktop market. Look at your desktop unit or laptop, odds are you will see a "Designed for Windows XX" sticker on it. The Lumia 900 metaphorically has a "Designed for Windows Phone" sticker. Microsoft set the standard for the platform and it is up to the manufacturer to support it.

    And like the desktop market, Windows Phones devices support newer versions of the OS. I had an HP dv6000 that came with WXP on it. When I finally upgraded to a new system a year ago, that same dv6000 had Windows 7 Pro installed on it and was working great (beyond the dying five year old battery). Best as we can tell, most Windows Phone devices are running the most recent version. The Lumia 900 will be the exception initially, but I recall that will change shortly after launch.

    Android, as a platform, is a big seller. Android, as an experience, isn't there. When you buy an iOS device, you are almost promised two whole versions of iOS before your device gets dropped. Even the original iPad runs iOS 5.1. With Windows Phone, your device is likewise promised two whole versions. Maybe even more considering Microsoft just supported RAM-Lite phones with 7.5.

    With Android, what you see is likely all you will ever see. While you can grab an iPhone with a minor OS flaw knowing Apple will have it fixed in a month, you better like the Android device. That's all she wrote.



    Both of these spell trouble for Android and Microsoft would be wise to exploit them in advertising campaigns. Android is the most popular OS like gas is the most popular fuel. It's more of a matter of having no other choice rather than selecting what you want. Microsoft needs to push itself as the anti-Android. It needs to tell devs "You only have to develop for us once. We may only have 25 different devices, but they all run the same WP. One program runs on them all (minus the third-world phone)."

    Another way to look at it: Windows Phone is like a small patch of the softest, greenest grass you can find while Android is a field of weeds. While weeds will always grow the fastest, only the grass is desired. Microsoft needs to press their advance on the weakness of Android as a platform.

    I still have confidence that when all is said and done that the two big players will resemble the desktop OS market: Apple and Microsoft with the "nerd" population using Linu... err, Android. But consumers will pick WP.

    Windows 8 may be the best thing to ever happen to Windows Phone. Put yourself in the mind of a consumer. Which would you rather buy: the phone that looks like your computer at home, or that phone that looks like whatever the manufacturer put on it? The bulk of phone sales are not made by nerds but by the Great Unwashed. They are simply looking for a simple, easy to use phone.

    In the end, does Windows Phone have email, facebook, twitter, a phone, a camera, and Angry Birds? If the answer to all of those is yes, they are a complete OS in the minds of the average Joe. Regardless of the number of apps.

    /sermon

    986 words. Wow....

    Edit: Android 2.2 Froyo actually has a larger share of Android than all of 3.x and 4.x versions combined.
    Last edited by bobsentell; 04-02-2012 at 10:53 PM. Reason: copy editing
    04-02-2012 09:25 PM
  7. InfectedPhreak's Avatar
    bobsentell: Definitely have to agree with you.
    04-02-2012 10:00 PM
  8. N8ter's Avatar
    That's not a worry when android hit it was only the g1 and only T-Mobile at first. They had even less representation. With At&t pushing and now Nokia all in I'm not worried

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
    Android didn't hit until Verizon started their Droid campaign, and the flurry of Android phone releases started shortly after.

    T-Mobile is the smallest US carrier. You can't hit on T-Mobile the way Apple "hit" with the iPhone on AT&T (which is the second largest carrier with almost as many customers as T-Mobile and Sprint combined).
    04-02-2012 10:03 PM
  9. andruthetech's Avatar
    I left the Android side just 3 days ago and all my purchased apps with it. So far, I'm happy with the desicion. I want a simple, unified interface and stable OS/apps. WP gives me that. Android 4.03 (ICS), as improved as it is, is still clunky compared to WP.

    As mentioned by another member here, I think Android is drowning in itself. Looking at Android with open eyes; to me the OS is fragmented with too many choices of phones and interface types. If you decide to root then your choices can easily increase 20 fold. Some phone hardware is just down-right garbage and app-wise too much junk in their market.

    It's great to have options but, there is also an issue having too many. Samsung alone has about 20 Android phones. Why? More is not better. If I was Samsung and wanted to show off products I'd make 3 models and that's it. OS releases would be sooner, updates would be faster, hardware quality overall would be better.

    This is the state of Android and they can deal with it. We are on the better system imho
    04-02-2012 10:35 PM
  10. bobsentell's Avatar
    Some phone hardware is just down-right garbage and app-wise too much junk in their market.
    That is my biggest problem with Apple and others saying "we have 200,000,000 apps!" When only 20 of them are worth anything, what does that matter?

    I'd rather have an app store with the 20 apps I use rather than one with 20,000 apps I have to dig through.
    04-02-2012 10:43 PM
  11. InfectedPhreak's Avatar
    That is my biggest problem with Apple and others saying "we have 200,000,000 apps!" When only 20 of them are worth anything, what does that matter?

    I'd rather have an app store with the 20 apps I use rather than one with 20,000 apps I have to dig through.
    I guarantee the 500,000+ apps are fart apps or lighter apps that are obviously completely useless. If they got rid of all the garbage apps, they'd only have like maybe 200,000... and a lot of them are alternatives of mainstream apps... like twitter clients or facebook clients and so forth. The market is filled with just apps to fill the quota.
    04-02-2012 11:25 PM
  12. ArousedSpoon's Avatar
    I left the Android side just 3 days ago and all my purchased apps with it. So far, I'm happy with the desicion. I want a simple, unified interface and stable OS/apps. WP gives me that. Android 4.03 (ICS), as improved as it is, is still clunky compared to WP.
    Unnecessary post from myself here but just wanted to say 2 things. 1. Good decision on the switch! and 2. THANK YOU for saying that Android is clunky compared to WP, when all my friends see my phone and ask why I think it's better, I tell them the obvious reasons and then when I get to the clunkyness of Android and show them how smooth my phone is compared to theirs, they always just go "I don't see it". I /faceplam
    04-03-2012 08:02 PM
  13. Guidos Dad's Avatar
    I left the Android side just 3 days ago and all my purchased apps with it. So far, I'm happy with the desicion. I want a simple, unified interface and stable OS/apps. WP gives me that. Android 4.03 (ICS), as improved as it is, is still clunky compared to WP.

    As mentioned by another member here, I think Android is drowning in itself. Looking at Android with open eyes; to me the OS is fragmented with too many choices of phones and interface types. If you decide to root then your choices can easily increase 20 fold. Some phone hardware is just down-right garbage and app-wise too much junk in their market.

    It's great to have options but, there is also an issue having too many. Samsung alone has about 20 Android phones. Why? More is not better. If I was Samsung and wanted to show off products I'd make 3 models and that's it. OS releases would be sooner, updates would be faster, hardware quality overall would be better.

    This is the state of Android and they can deal with it. We are on the better system imho

    Apple iPhone 4S vs. Nokia Lumia 900: AT&T Smartphone Showdown | News & Opinion | PCMag.com

    Go to the pcmag.com link and read the article. Mostly just go down to the last 2 paragraphs. This is a comparison between the iPhone 4S and the 900. What is said in the last two paragraphs says it in a nutshell why the IPhone and Android have such a lock on the smartphone market. APPS!!! As PCMag says here and I seem to read in a lot of places where the tech people "in the know" place their opinions, WP7.5 just simply beats IPhone and Android hands down for simplicity of use and reliability as far as OS goes. But you have that 500,000 Apps number and 300,000+ or whatever it is now Android brags on have that attract all the kids and moms and pops that buy these phones for the kids. They want the games and "cool" Apps on the IPhone and Droids. I've had my Trophy for about 6+ months now and it has NEVER locked up on me for any reason. The thing is just so reliable, unlike the Palm Pre I had. It is easy to navigate around in. I went to my local VZ store a couple weeks ago just to look at some of the Android phones and IPhone just to compare moving around in them to my Trophy. It was no comparison. Every Android phone was laid out something different and where to get to what in it. They we're confusing to try and use. Granted, I was looking through them for the first time, but, within minutes after getting my Trophy I new where to get and how to use most of the important features of WP. The IPhone, I just can't stand that flipping through pages of little square boxes and having to sort through to find and get to what I wanted to. My wife has an IPad and I rarely get on it because of the layout of it.

    But, the majority of users out there want APPS....APPS....APPS!!! That's what is selling all those Android phones and IPhones. My oldest could care less about my Windows phone and how easy it is to use. He just wants an IPhone cause that's what all the other kids have because all those "great apps" sell the thing. I know many WP users out there are also into the APPS and have stated that Windows needs to get more competitive in the app market. Well, maybe that's true to some degree, but I feel in the end with WP8 and beyond if they keep developing the reliable OS they have even now and with them finally getting it on the LTE bandwagon, more hardware makers and the other carriers beside ATT are going to get into the windows phone more and more. The tech people all out there already say it's the best OS. I'm holding out with my Trophy that by the end of the year even Big Red will show us some new WPs! Will WP eventually be able to overtake Android or IPhone to be the top OS out there? Maybe not. Probably not for at least quite awhile. The others just have too far a head start with all those "GREAT APPS" that is going to make it a long uphill climb for windows to overtake. If they can keep putting out the product they're now putting out, I'll keep with them. I won't even care if they stay number 3. There's going to stay a market out there for all three OS's I would feel.
    04-03-2012 08:03 PM
  14. Silverdogz's Avatar
    In most AT&T stores the WP7 devices are in with the BlackBerrys. Only ONE store had the WP7 across from the iPhone. And all the reps seemed to know the WP7 environment and didn't try to sell me an Android or iPhone.
    (This was the Alderwood Mall for Washington State users)

    Sent from my SGH-i937 using Board Express
    04-03-2012 08:46 PM
  15. N8ter's Avatar
    Microsoft missed the boat on capitalizing on Android fragmentation, not to mention Android users seem rather content with the platform, anyways and apart from the tech blog readers they don't care.

    Remember leading up to WP7 release people were like "Yay Microsoft is reigning in the carriers" and "Get WP7 if you want to get updates in time" well the whole NoDo fiasco pretty much killed that, and look what's happening to 8107 in the US (esp AT&T).

    Yea, they could have capitalized on it, but they didn't.

    Android version fragmentation is more a developer issue than an end-user issue.

    As long as the users' top apps work on their phone they generally don't give a crap what version they're running the same way most people I know didn't even take the free Express upgrades for Windows when they bought a computer with a soon to be old version, and generally don't upgrade their OS until they buy a new computer with it pre-installed.

    Consumers tend to buy for what a device can do right now, not what it can do in a year. That's why the whole "wait for NoDo/Mango/Tango/Apollo" crap isn't ringing with them. They only care about what a device or platform can accomplish now, not in the past ("x never had y in 2007 either!", etc.) or in the future.
    04-04-2012 04:02 AM
  16. N8ter's Avatar

    But, the majority of users out there want APPS....APPS....APPS!!! That's what is selling all those Android phones and IPhones. My oldest could care less about my Windows phone and how easy it is to use. He just wants an IPhone cause that's what all the other kids have because all those "great apps" sell the thing. I know many WP users out there are also into the APPS and have stated that Windows needs to get more competitive in the app market. Well, maybe that's true to some degree, but I feel in the end with WP8 and beyond if they keep developing the reliable OS they have even now and with them finally getting it on the LTE bandwagon, more hardware makers and the other carriers beside ATT are going to get into the windows phone more and more. The tech people all out there already say it's the best OS. I'm holding out with my Trophy that by the end of the year even Big Red will show us some new WPs! Will WP eventually be able to overtake Android or IPhone to be the top OS out there? Maybe not. Probably not for at least quite awhile. The others just have too far a head start with all those "GREAT APPS" that is going to make it a long uphill climb for windows to overtake. If they can keep putting out the product they're now putting out, I'll keep with them. I won't even care if they stay number 3. There's going to stay a market out there for all three OS's I would feel.
    #3 is so far behind 1 and 2 that they are barely a factor (notwithstanding the fact that they aren't even #3, Blackberry is and is likely to sit there for a long time given WP7's trending marketshare). WP7 is #4, and they're even lower in World-Wide marketshare because then you have to factor in Symbian which still has high world-wide marketshare and I think even Bada has higher marketshare numbers than WP7 there. RIM is stronger in overseas markets than in the US these days. Apple and Android are still strong world-wide.

    The issue with apps and lagging developer support among top apps is obvious, but people seem to have rewritten history.

    Microsoft launched the platform and it was missing so many APIs that many apps were literally impossible to port over. WP7 was launched like a Beta Google Product. That's why. They didn't really add most of the APIs needed until Mango, and that was basically a year after launch.

    Even then, we ended up getting inferior ports compared to other platforms. It took them this long for Skype and it's clearly inferior to the Android/iOS version. WhatsApp and IM+ are clearly inferior. Tons of apps are like this. Even Adobe Reader is terrible compared to the iOS/Android versions.

    That's where the root of the problem lies.

    They hyped the launch and developers weren't able to get in at launch, so now that the platform has been out for a while and those same developers see that it isn't really growing at a decent rate, they feel it's not worth the effort to port and support their app on this platform.

    WebOS had the exact same issue a few years back when it launched IRT developer mindshare, but their platform was much more finished than WP7 when it launched to consumers.

    This is the same thing that's hurting them with consumers. You still see comments everywhere saying WP7 doesn't have needed features, even though Mango likely rectified much of that for many of those users. The launch tainted its perception in the minds of consumers a bit, and that's hard to shake when there are establish (and high quality) alternatives on the market.

    This is not like flubbing a Windows Release or the RROD XB360 issue when it lauched literally a year ahead of the Wii and PS3.
    Last edited by N8ter; 04-04-2012 at 06:23 AM.
    04-04-2012 06:16 AM
  17. canesfan625's Avatar
    Statements about developers thinking it isn't worthwhile arent entirely accurate. Interest in the platform is clearly growing. We should be careful when comparing to android because while support is still strong it has been shown that android has slowly been loosing developer support. If IM+ is your basis for comparison id say the platform is coming along slowly but surely.
    04-04-2012 06:31 AM
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