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12-22-2015 05:21 PM
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  1. Captain_Eric's Avatar
    Does anyone know if today's update (adding music controls and activity reminder) also fixed the problems with the 1) barometric altimeter and 2) Heart rate monitor inaccuracies at high activity levels reported in these forums. I sure hope so.
    12-10-2015 09:21 PM
  2. bksalt's Avatar
    It has not fixed the altimeter I went up 1 flight of stairs at the gym this morning and it is registering 24 flights imagine that, I would not call that a fix. I had a fitbit surge previous and it was spot on with stairs all the time.
    12-11-2015 06:36 AM
  3. Nate Silver's Avatar
    It certainly hasn't done anything to fix the hr issues I've been seeing. Today's trainer session showed a steep rise in hr during the initial 10 minutes or so, up to a peak of 158 (when it should have been registering around 95 to 100) followed by a gradual fall-off to right about where it should have been. There were an additional couple of anomalous spikes later in the workout as well.
    12-11-2015 06:27 PM
  4. Captain_Eric's Avatar
    Thanks guys. I sure hope they fix these two items.
    12-11-2015 11:16 PM
  5. insight3fl's Avatar
    I am still batting 50/50 on the HR issue. Of the two rides since the update one worked fine, the other was off on AVG HR by 35 beats. Same as before. I also had a lousy experience with the golf app since the update. I will give it another go tomorrow. It counted way to many strokes on almost every hole. Perhaps I did not calibrate it on the first tee.
    12-12-2015 09:40 AM
  6. Captain_Eric's Avatar
    Keep posting on uservoice! Please.
    12-12-2015 09:10 PM
  7. Migi2015's Avatar
    How is sleep tracking with the Band?
    Captain_Eric likes this.
    12-13-2015 01:59 AM
  8. Roland Stoll's Avatar
    How is sleep tracking with the Band?
    works as expected, e.g. (sry, only german)
    bildschirmfoto-2015-12-14-um-11.12.50.png
    12-14-2015 04:13 AM
  9. insight3fl's Avatar
    Round of golf on Sunday was terrible. Course data was corrupt and of course the swing count did not work either. I will try again but between the HR issue always off and the hit and miss golf app, these are the only two things that makes this a usable device for me other than any other smart watch. And now we early suckers are eating $50 on the new price reduction.
    12-15-2015 11:51 AM
  10. kds's Avatar
    The Band does not use an altimeter to determine number of floors climbed, it uses a barometer to estimate floors climbed. It will never be accurate and expectations should be adjusted accordingly until the technology is developed where a device that can fit on your wrist can scan your surroundings and determine you're in a staircase and when you have reached a landing. Every device I've owned across three manufacturers that tracks floors climbed has never been "accurate."

    With that said, after a five-day test period between the Fitbit Surge and the Microsoft Band 2, the Band was within 3% variance of the Surge for number of floors climbed.
    12-15-2015 01:22 PM
  11. DroidUser42's Avatar
    And now we early suckers are eating $50 on the new price reduction.
    That appears to have been a one-day special from a particular vendor.
    12-15-2015 10:18 PM
  12. devbent's Avatar
    Very much true! We do our best to filter our large pressure changes, but there are some scenarios that we cannot filter out.

    If you want to have fun with a barometer some time, load up an app on your phone that let's you look at your phone's barometer's estimated altitude. Now get in a car and drive down a large hill. Check your phone's altitude, open the car door and check again, there is a good chance you will see a huge drop off in the estimated elevation. If the car's air vents are closed or set to recirculate the air you'll be more likely to see a large jump.

    For the band, we filter out any sudden large changes, but there are still the odd cases that happen. As an example, a lot of office stairwells are pressurized, often due to building design (or local fire codes) and this is further impacted by the current weather. Walking from outside to the stairwell results in a huge pressure difference. If you then go through another door into the main building the pressure changes dramatically again.

    What the band sees is two large changes in pressure that are highly unrealistic in regards to what a user would ever do. We don't want to count 10+ flights of stairs because you walked into a building, so we filter this huge change out. Unfortunately if you did happen to walk up a flight of stairs before you went through the second door, that may not be counted.

    Our actual filtering logic is much more complex than what I have described here, but hopefully this gives people an overview of why measuring floors climbed is hard to do.
    kds, rangerdogy, ajj3085 and 1 others like this.
    12-16-2015 02:16 PM
  13. bksalt's Avatar
    devbent: seeing as you know so much about this altimeter why when I live in Florida no steep inclines, I have not climbed any stairs, I am retired so not real active but right now 4:15pm My Band 2 is showing 27 flights of stairs climbed and I have not gone any where and no stairs in my house. Most days my Band2 shows around 45 flights continually daily. This surely is not any where accurate.
    Captain_Eric and theefman like this.
    12-16-2015 03:19 PM
  14. devbent's Avatar
    Hi bksalt,

    I lead up the UI team on the band, so information I give about the barometer is just what I know from talking to the algorithms team that works on it.

    Unfortunately I cannot officially speak to any particular issues you may be having that are not bugs in my team's code. This is to prevent us from stepping on each other's toes and causing confusion, but it is unfortunate in that I can't really offer any other advice. :(
    12-16-2015 03:48 PM
  15. bksalt's Avatar
    Well who can I contact about this problem this is totally ridiculous to have these kind of numbers showing up.
    12-16-2015 06:08 PM
  16. HomeBound12's Avatar
    If it's really an altimeter than steps "climbed" when not "climbing anywhere" is actually normal.
    You see altimeter really does not exist. Altimeter is simply different way to show barometer changes. (As you can probably guess altimeter will be impressively accurate as long as weather does not change "on your way up" and hence the reason why Microsoft uses it : they figured it's unlikely that weather will change while you're climbing set of stairs)
    Google "baro changes vs altitude" and you'll understand...

    So if you sit still and weather gets worst (in general - but not always , this means that baro goes down) you'll see stairs climbed even thou you didn't climb any stares. What actually happens is this:

    1. Baro goes down
    2. Your altitude is calculated based on Baro reading
    3. System new your "last" altitude and now it gets "higher" altitude because of the lover baro reading
    4. Steps climbed just went up

    Ho much of an steps climbed will you see if "baro goes down" depends on baro accuracy and frequency of sensor readout.

    Most wrist devices these days are accurate to within 1m but older bar sensors were only accurate to about 5m.

    So in other words if you just sit around and all of a sudden you see 100 steps climbed brace yourself, heavy rain might be just around the corner. :)
    (sudden baro drops over short period of time are good indicator of an upcoming storm. For example this is precisely how "storm alarm" works on devices like Suunto Core)

    EDIT:
    The only way I can see that this can be remedied is if Microsoft Band start doing this:
    1. Baro changes! Is user climbing stairs or is weather changing?
    2. Check the phone weather station baro reading to figure out if band is really climbing or no. Use this to decide if the "stairs climbed" should be shown / calculated or not.
    Last edited by HomeBound12; 12-17-2015 at 08:57 AM.
    InsGadget likes this.
    12-17-2015 08:44 AM
  17. bksalt's Avatar
    Well this all sounds good but here in ft myers fl the weather has been the same for the last 2 weeks no bad or better weather just same old same old. I also have a fitbit surge and the stair climb has been right on when I go to the mall it registers flights climbed, and the barometric pressure has no effect on it. Only my band2 is doing this.
    12-17-2015 09:22 AM
  18. HomeBound12's Avatar
    My understanding is that FitBit doesn't even have baro sensor.
    And regardless if weather is "same old same old" bar reading will change during the day.
    No question about it. (As you can imagine in order to be "accurate" Microsoft is probably forced to calculate pretty minuscule baro drops as steps climbed)
    To make matters worst baro reading will change when you step outside the house, than it will change again when you step inside the mall (sheer fact that temperature is different in different location will impact baro reading - granted it's not a big enough difference to indicate weather change but it's big enough to impact steps climbed).
    To confirm do this:
    Tune your TV to weather station. Check baro. Check steps climbed.
    Now wait until you get mysterious "steps climbed". Check baro. I bet'ya whatever you want that you'll see steps climbed if baro went down even by smallest of amounts.
    Personally I'm disappointing that Microsoft is using baro as steps climbed indicator.
    Clearly devices like FitBit have better way of doing it.
    On a positive note now you know that your steps climbed are pretty accurate representation of what baro is doing and that can help deciding if weather is going bad or no.
    12-17-2015 09:42 AM
  19. kds's Avatar
    My understanding is that FitBit doesn't even have baro sensor.
    Some models do.

    To confirm do this:
    Tune your TV to weather station. Check baro. Check steps climbed.
    Now wait until you get mysterious "steps climbed". Check baro. I bet'ya whatever you want that you'll see steps climbed if baro went down even by smallest of amounts.
    Nope. It doesn't work like this. See devbent's post above.

    Personally I'm disappointing that Microsoft is using baro as steps climbed indicator.
    Clearly devices like FitBit have better way of doing it.
    Nope, they use a barometer. Fitbit and Band 2 were within 3% of each other on floors climbed at the end of a 5-day test.
    12-17-2015 10:21 AM
  20. badbandit's Avatar
    why is nearly nobody complaining about the HRM? the reading of the heartrate is way worse on the band 2 than it was on the band 1. the average heartrate after sports is up to 10 beats. on band 1 it was about 1 or 2.
    in the beginning of my sports the heartrate if off by up to 20 beats. it goes up very (way to) quick and stays there most of the time.

    the floor counter is a cheap joke and nothing more than a random counter.

    both the HRM and floor counter are annoying and nearly useless and if ms does not fix both, i will not buy a band 3.
    12-17-2015 12:33 PM
  21. bksalt's Avatar
    than my band is not working properly my surge is showing o floors and my Band2 is showing 27 climbed right now at 1:45pm
    12-17-2015 12:36 PM
  22. devbent's Avatar
    Hi HomeBound12,

    The barometer is just one of the sensors that we use to determine floors climbed. We also use our accelerometer to determine if the user is making motions that are typical of going up a flight of stairs, although I'm not sure exactly what filters our Algorithm team has in place.
    12-17-2015 03:54 PM
  23. ajj3085's Avatar
    Well this all sounds good but here in ft myers fl the weather has been the same for the last 2 weeks no bad or better weather just same old same old. I also have a fitbit surge and the stair climb has been right on when I go to the mall it registers flights climbed, and the barometric pressure has no effect on it. Only my band2 is doing this.
    I highly doubt that the atmospheric pressure hasn't changed at all, even if you've had no rain.
    12-17-2015 06:30 PM
  24. bksalt's Avatar
    I highly doubt that the atmospheric pressure changed 27 times by 1:45 pm and 61 changes by now at 11:16 that is really a little ridiculous and hard to believe.
    12-17-2015 10:18 PM
  25. bksalt's Avatar
    Just in case you think I am making this up hear is a pic

    61-floors.jpg
    12-17-2015 10:35 PM
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