Can Microsoft Ever Recover? Windows 8, Windows Phone, Xbox One, Surface, etc.

k0de

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Xbox One is selling great, a lot better than Xbox 360 (at 2006), and better than Wii U.


Indeed. The OP is in a world of fear and anxiety manufactured by the media.

Here is how. The OP only mentions a few products by MSFT. For example Xbox one, Windows Phone 8.1, Surface RT laptop (not the tablet).

These are all new products and experimental at MSFT.

The OP fail to mentioned SQL Sever, ASP.net, VS Ultimate, VS Premium, VS pro, IIS, Bing, Windows 8. And so on. But yet the OP claim to use all of MSFT Products.

To the OP my advice is to relax unlike Apple and Google MSFT does not live or die on mobile phones. This is experimental. And if it flops so what? MSFT will live on.
 
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A895

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Indeed. The OP is in a world of fear and anxiety manufactured by the media.

Here is how. The OP only mentions a few products by MSFT. For example Xbox one, Windows Phone 8.1, Surface RT laptop (not the tablet).

These are all new products and experimental at MSFT.

The OP fail to mentioned SQL Sever, ASP.net, VS Ultimate, VS Premium, VS pro, IIS, Bing, Windows 8. And so on. But yet the OP claim to use all of MSFT Products.

To the OP my advice is to relax unlike Apple and Google MSFT does not live or die on mobile phones. This is experimental. And if it flops so what? MSFT will live on.

I agree with everything you said except mobile. We all know technology future rests in mobile, otherwise Microsoft wouldn`t be pouring billions and taking losses on it. Google is s terrible example of living or dying by phones because Google makes 90%+ of their money through ADS. Apple not only does phones but laptops, tablets, and desktops which al do well. You should have said Blackberry, they will live or die with mobile phones.
 

coip

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The OP only mentions a few products by MSFT. For example Xbox one, Windows Phone 8.1, Surface RT...The OP fail to mentioned SQL Sever, ASP.net, VS Ultimate, VS Premium, VS pro, IIS, Bing, Windows 8. And so on. But yet the OP claim to use all of MSFT Products.

I mentioned Windows 8 and Bing. As for the other stuff, none of those are used by everyday folk and are therefore not really relevant to my concern: public perception of Microsoft.
 

Laura Knotek

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Agree. Locking yourself to one ecosystem is a huge mistake. It's much better to pick and choose the best option for the things you actually need. A big disadvantage of Windows Phone is that it ties you to Microsoft's services (OK, I know you can use others, but e.g. Dropbox can never integrate as well as SkyDrive). I'm not saying Microsoft's services are bad, but who knows if they will be competitive in the future. And you may some day want the choice to go with devices from other vendors.
One could say the same thing about Apple products. How many issues have there been just involving iMessage when iPhone users switch to Windows Phone or Android?
 

jevans911

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Microsoft has rightly or wrongly traumatized millions of people with ****ty software. Those people have been buying up Macs and iPads for the last 5 years in massive quantities. They are happy as clams now fully ensconced in the Apple ecosystem. Those people are lost forever, but not everyone has done the full ecosystem switch. Microsoft still has a chance to redeem itself.

I bought a MacBook Pro and an iPad, but I am seriously considering selling them and going with an MS laptop, maybe a 2in1 or a surface pad and I currently use a Windows phone, so adopters of Apple tech are not all lost causes... Oh btw I run Windows 8.1 on my PC too!
 

Xpider_MX

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The weird thing is Xbox One is the first Microsoft console that is not making losses. The first Xbox was a mess (talking about revenue), Xbox 360 was better, after 2010 is the best selling videogame console in USA, but since 2005 up to 2010 only losses because the RROD and it was selling at losses.

Xbox One not only is selling better than Xbox 360 and Xbox Prime (the "new" name for the first xbox), but also it is not selling with losses. Yes, it is not selling "as good" as PS4, but the numbers that Xbox One is moving are not bad at all.
 

k0de

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I mentioned Windows 8 and Bing. As for the other stuff, none of those are used by everyday folk and are therefore not really relevant to my concern: public perception of Microsoft.


My mistake. Public perception of MSFT? So what? All major entities in the world still use MSFT.

Public perception is a niche. Like clothing and music it only last for a time. Is that your concern?

Lol public perception will soon end for the niche companies. Relax MSFT offers many services unlike those niche companies that you are worry about. And MSFT will live through this epidemic of niches.

Forget mobile market shares. Windows 8 alone sold over 200 million licenses last quarter alone. Wow. IPhone was 400 million in market shares for an entire year. I also wonder how the other services for MSFT in whole combine perform?
 
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Michael Alan Goff

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I mentioned Windows 8 and Bing. As for the other stuff, none of those are used by everyday folk and are therefore not really relevant to my concern: public perception of Microsoft.

I do believe the pubic perception of Microsoft is rather ambivalent, just like always. I speak, of course, on average.
 

coip

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My mistake. Public perception of MSFT? So what? All major entities in the world still use MSFT.

The point is that entire generations (teens, twenty- and thirty-somethings) have now grown up with the perception that Google and Apple are cool and Microsoft is not. Sure, all major business and organizations use Microsoft now, but that's slowly becoming a non-truth. And who do you think will be making those type of corporate decisions in a few years? The twenty- and thirty-somethings who right now are totally invested in Apple and Google. That's what I'm concerned about.
 

Cleavitt76

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The point is that entire generations (teens, twenty- and thirty-somethings) have now grown up with the perception that Google and Apple are cool and Microsoft is not. Sure, all major business and organizations use Microsoft now, but that's slowly becoming a non-truth. And who do you think will be making those type of corporate decisions in a few years? The twenty- and thirty-somethings who right now are totally invested in Apple and Google. That's what I'm concerned about.

I understand your concerns about the consumer perception of MS and how that might transfer into the business world, but as someone who works in IT I can guarantee that those corporate decisions will not change any time soon. If some of those hardcore Apple/Google fans do manage to make it into a position to make corporate IT decisions and they decide to switch the company to Apple/Google, they will either be fired very quickly or they will run the company into the ground.

Seriously, Apple and Google are not even competitors in the enterprise IT market because they don't even have products targeted at those markets. Creating those very complex products or getting existing products up to speed for enterprise is a far more challenging task (I'm being nice, it's practically impossible) than any of the challenges that MS faces in mobile (which are fairly simple devices). It's hard for me to even express how unlikely it is for Apple/Google to break into that market in any meaningful way at this point.
 

smoledman

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Good point... I haven't seen any stats in regard to this.

But the strategies by Google, Apple and MS are to keep users in their fenced gardens so we can expect, as the whole concept of ecosystem is plugged more and more, people looking to stick to familiar experiences.

As products mature they will become more seamless (within their ecosystem). This dynamic has a big advantage.

Also, here we are bunch of tech heads, but does the average Joe seek the best product regardless of what ecosystem it belongs to?

And what about corporate environments? Cherry picking the best solution is good in principle but can be costly.

What happens is that people are not looking to get fenced into an ecosystem(Apple/Google) but end up that way organically over 6-12 months of usage. It's definitely quite easy to end up locked into Apple's walled-garden.
 

anony_mouse

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Those examples don't make much sense. You are basically saying that people shouldn't take advantage of the benefits of ecosystems (specifically Microsoft) because they might lose those benefits some day if they switch to a non-ecosystem alternative. As if never having those benefits (even while all other functionality was similar) is somehow better.

I agree that "locking" yourself into an ecosystem (or proprietary format) is a mistake, but that doesn't mean that there aren't good reasons to align with technology that uses a single ecosystem as long as that ecosystem isn't cut off from other options. An "ecosystem" doesn't necessarily lock you in to anything provided it can be accessed from the outside. It just provides a more consistent and better synchronized experience. Apple's ecosystem absolutely attempts to lock in their users with everything from lightning connectors to proprietary protocols/formats and I avoid Apple products for this reason (although I believe they make good products). However, the Microsoft ecosystem is far more open than most these days. For example, OneDrive, Office, Xbox SmartGlass can be accessed from nearly any competing device. You don't see that very often with Apple and Google is being a bit selective with their "openness" these days too.

What benefits are there of sticking to a single 'ecosystem'? For example, if I stuck to either Google, Microsoft or Apple I wouldn't be able to get cloud storage on my Linux PC (*). So I use Dropbox. As far as I can tell, it works at least as well as the other services on all my devices. However, because WP is optimised for SkyDrive and support for other cloud storage is limited, it makes WP much less attractive to me. It would be better if Microsoft allowed a level playing field for any cloud storage service.
Sticking with the cloud storage example, you can argue that Apple favour iCloud, but they have implemented it so badly that it actually works against them. I'm don't really understand what iCloud does for me, apart from backing up a random selection of pictures on my iPad, but in a way that I can't access from any other machine.

(*) Actually it is possible to use Google Drive with Linux, but it's an unofficial third party solution.
 

k0de

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The point is that entire generations (teens, twenty- and thirty-somethings) have now grown up with the perception that Google and Apple are cool and Microsoft is not. Sure, all major business and organizations use Microsoft now, but that's slowly becoming a non-truth. And who do you think will be making those type of corporate decisions in a few years? The twenty- and thirty-somethings who right now are totally invested in Apple and Google. That's what I'm concerned about.

That is true. But that is only in theory. That transition can take decades.

In fact I think that it is good for MSFT to have fierce competition. Iron sharpens Iron. Apple, Google, MSFT competing for the crown is good for computing. Just stick to the one the works for you. And lets see what the (3) find in years to come.

My opinion is that MSFT will be around for long time. Have fun.
 

Markham Ranja

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I understand your concerns about the consumer perception of MS and how that might transfer into the business world, but as someone who works in IT I can guarantee that those corporate decisions will not change any time soon. If some of those hardcore Apple/Google fans do manage to make it into a position to make corporate IT decisions and they decide to switch the company to Apple/Google, they will either be fired very quickly or they will run the company into the ground.

Seriously, Apple and Google are not even competitors in the enterprise IT market because they don't even have products targeted at those markets. Creating those very complex products or getting existing products up to speed for enterprise is a far more challenging task (I'm being nice, it's practically impossible) than any of the challenges that MS faces in mobile (which are fairly simple devices). It's hard for me to even express how unlikely it is for Apple/Google to break into that market in any meaningful way at this point.

Sorry - while I agree that MS is in general more suitable for enterprise, the kind of statements you make about people getting fired, etc, are simply FUD.

Corporations like the Roche Group (85k) seats have moved to Google Apps. Many US government orgs like the GSA as well, many city administrations, the NOAA and several others. Or think about KLM and the Trump hotel chain. And of course, Google themselves seem to do quite well without MS infra.

Every employee of every company doesn't need the full capabilities of Excel or Word. I work in corporate engineering for a large organisation (2k seats) and we only deploy Office to a small percentage of our staff (business analysts, quant analysts and a few others). The rest use Google Apps or OpenOffice and we've faced few complaints so far.
 

tgp

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Every employee of every company doesn't need the full capabilities of Excel or Word.

This is what I've seen. While Microsoft's services, especially Office, are undisputedly the most capable, they are also an overkill in a lot of cases. One of our potential customers described it to our salesman as "using a sledgehammer to drive in a thumbtack." It's the same with PCs. Most consumer PC users could get along fine with a Chromebook. A PC is many times more capable, but few consumers use more than a small fraction of those capabilities.

That said, I still use my Windows PC even though I could get along fine at home with a Chromebook or tablet. I have no plans to do anything else at the present time. My wife, however, barely uses her 17" HP laptop with Windows 8.1. She instead uses her Chromebook and Moto X.
 

dkediger

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My corp is very much in the "not everyone needs Office" camp - really only 25% of our device base needs it. But I'm moving fully into the Office365 arena - and away from a foray into Google Apps. We have a few 3rd party interactions that require the most complex Excel workbook I have ever seen - General Motors dealer financial statements. GApps falls over flat there. We evaluated the traditional individual install of Office, but combined with everyone's need for some type of email, the AD integration, and ability to mix service levels from Exchange Online/Kiosk Mail/Full Enterprise Level O365 license its a very attractive service.

Their device platform support is far better than any other out there.

It makes business managers budget responsible for their Office use - it exposes the user cost rather than one humongous corporate expense that gets eaten once every 3-4 years for a Volume License.

The Outlook.com web interface is much more "entry level" user friendly than Gmail - we were adding a desktop mail client to GMail to make it usable and efficient.

In Short - As a corp - we've looked around, and dabbled in other platforms - but we're finding ourselves drawn back to the MotherShip. To borrow a phrase: "It Just Works...."
 

Cleavitt76

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What benefits are there of sticking to a single 'ecosystem'? For example, if I stuck to either Google, Microsoft or Apple I wouldn't be able to get cloud storage on my Linux PC (*). So I use Dropbox. As far as I can tell, it works at least as well as the other services on all my devices. However, because WP is optimised for SkyDrive and support for other cloud storage is limited, it makes WP much less attractive to me. It would be better if Microsoft allowed a level playing field for any cloud storage service.
Sticking with the cloud storage example, you can argue that Apple favour iCloud, but they have implemented it so badly that it actually works against them. I'm don't really understand what iCloud does for me, apart from backing up a random selection of pictures on my iPad, but in a way that I can't access from any other machine.

(*) Actually it is possible to use Google Drive with Linux, but it's an unofficial third party solution.

The benefits are more seamless integration, a more consistent experience, and little or no setup/configuration. I haven't had to configure SkyDrive/OneDrive on any device since Windows 7. It just works from the moment I log in for the first time. By itself, that is not a big deal. However, I can say that now about a lot of things thanks to the synching functionality in Windows 8.x, Windows Phone, and various MS services. Having said that, your reasoning for using Dropbox due to Linux support is perfectly valid, but it's no more valid than me going with OneDrive because Dropbox doesn't have a first party client for my Windows Phone (which I use far more than Linux). Dropbox would be my next choice if OneDrive no longer met my needs. I don't always go with the ecosystem option though. I buy my music from Amazon for example.

I'm not saying that the ecosystem approach is always the way to go. I'm just saying that if it's a fairly open ecosystem and it meets your requirements, then it can be a good choice as there are often benefits to be had from the ecosystem itself.

As far as Microsoft (or others) allowing deeper "ecosystem like integration" with third party services, that isn't really feasible since they don't have control over the third party service. MS can provide advanced integration of their own products and services because they can guarantee that those things will remain compatible and change together. They can't be sure of that with third party services and they can't make a "consistent experience" for products/services that they don't create themselves. They can provide APIs (they already do), but that only goes so far. APIs, by definition, are generic implementations of functionality so they don't lend themselves to the unique functionality that various services might provide.

I totally agree with you on iCloud as an example of an ecosystem that works against you. I feel this way about most of Apple's services which is why I never really got into Apple products.

BTW: OneDrive is also accessible in Linux via third party tools and apparently gnome 3.x has built in support now. I haven't tried it myself yet though.

Gnome gains Microsoft SkyDrive Support | woGue

Sorry - while I agree that MS is in general more suitable for enterprise, the kind of statements you make about people getting fired, etc, are simply FUD.

Corporations like the Roche Group (85k) seats have moved to Google Apps. Many US government orgs like the GSA as well, many city administrations, the NOAA and several others. Or think about KLM and the Trump hotel chain. And of course, Google themselves seem to do quite well without MS infra.

Every employee of every company doesn't need the full capabilities of Excel or Word. I work in corporate engineering for a large organisation (2k seats) and we only deploy Office to a small percentage of our staff (business analysts, quant analysts and a few others). The rest use Google Apps or OpenOffice and we've faced few complaints so far.

True enough, but I'm not talking about just replacing one product line like Office. I'm talking about someone making the decision to replace all MS technology in a company with Apple/Google. For example, replacing all the Windows workstations with Macbooks, iPads, or Chromebooks. Replacing all of the Windows servers, Hyper-V, MSSQL servers, Active Directory, Exchange, Visual Studio, etc. with some mystery Apple/Google products that don't even currently exist. It is no exaggeration to say that it would put a lot of companies out of business if all of a sudden the only thing their employees could do is what can be done on Apple/Google products. Now if someone wants to say that Oracle, VMware, RedHat, HP, or IBM might rise up and give MS a run for it's money then I wouldn't say it's impossible (quite unlikely though). However, there is no way that Apple or Google are going to become leaders in the enterprise market just because a bunch of kids with iPods became adults and decided to change things to the brand they like. That is the topic that I was addressing.

It's interesting to me that your company uses a mix a different office suites. If it works for you that is great, but generally in enterprise IT that kind of thing often comes with hidden costs. Instead of supporting one product the IT department is supporting 3 (and perhaps various versions of those 3). It can also lead to productivity issues when workers have to spend time dealing with document formatting issues due to incompatibilities. Anyway, if it works for your company for that product line then great, but I wouldn't consider it a sound strategy for most companies or for multiple product lines.

One question - if you remove enterprise-focused products and revenue from MS, what's left?

Tens of billions of dollars per year. MS is actually quite diversified.
 

dkediger

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If MS is in the toilet, then its a pretty darn nice toilet to be in:
Microsoft banks $20B in revenue, Surface pulling in $500M quarterly | Windows Phone Central

From the Article:
Both the consumer and enterprise business of Microsoft were up this past quarter. Devices and Consumer is up 12% to $8.3 billion.
•Windows OEM revenue up 4%, while Windows OEM Pro revenue up 19%
•Office 365 now accounts for 4.4 million subscribers, adding close to 1 million during the quarter
•1.2 million Xbox One consoles sold and 0.7 million Xbox 360 consoles sold
•Surface revenue up 50% and is close to $500 million
•Bing search share in the U.S. is up 18.6% with advertising revenue up 38%
•Azure revenue is up over 150%
•Windows volume licensing grew by 11%
•Office 365 revenue is up by over 100%
 

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