10-28-2015 09:20 AM
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  1. Lenin17301's Avatar
    No, it was nice, but no on the same league as the Windows 95 announcement o the original iPhone first unveiling, so no, not the best ever, but still, the best from Microsoft since the Bill Gates years.
    10-08-2015 10:18 AM
  2. worldspy99's Avatar
    I had the 950 XL and 950 in my hands in New York and I am planning to buy the 950 XL. Clearly they plan on invading spaces where people cannot afford both a high end phone and laptop with a single high end phone.

    Seeing the phone in action working as a fully functional PC was pretty damn impressive considering the market space it fills. I am invested heavily in Microsoft and I see these new devices penetrating the business market spaces with bleed over into others.

    I can see it now in lower incomes houses, Dad can I use your phone to do my homework and surf the web?
    Satya actually talked about the exact same thing with Nilay Patel in his interview that is over on The Verge..
    Why does Microsoft exist? An interview with CEO Satya Nadella | The Verge
    10-08-2015 10:45 AM
  3. Eric Immerman's Avatar
    I loved it but wished they announced like Google apps and snap chat. Oh well.
    I couldn't agree more about the Google Apps. There are so many missing apps it is frustrating.
    10-08-2015 10:53 AM
  4. NOLATechy's Avatar
    Thank you! I've been trying to get people to understand this point for a long time! Windows 10 apps are coming. I've even contacted my bank and they said they are looking into it. Wow! A US Bank considering an app for Windows 10!? Shocking! lol
    10-08-2015 11:36 AM
  5. tgp's Avatar
    I can see it now in lower incomes houses, Dad can I use your phone to do my homework and surf the web?
    What happens when Dad has to go somewhere but the homework still needs to be done?
    10-08-2015 11:49 AM
  6. Jeddic's Avatar
    I was considering this too, at the speech at the end of the presentation. It makes a somewhat compelling argument there, though I did have to wonder if in such countries, would the 950 even be affordable? I mean... it's not bad here. But in other regions, $550 is a lot to spend. Still though, I thought of this too. It makes me hopeful.
    I think most people are missing the point of Continuum. Right now, Continuum is not much for phones. In 98% of cases where you'd use a Lumia 950/XL in place of another computer with continuum, it would be easier to just carry your phone and other computer. However, this tech will be improved for the future, and may eventually be useful on phones. But right now, Continuum is a necessary feature for Tablets.

    Tablet PCs have 8-12 inch screens, mostly. Sometimes they're used like phones, held in the hand, touch interface. Sometimes they're used like laptops, with a touchpad and keyboard. Sometimes, they're plugged into an external monitor and used with keyboard and mouse. This is Continuum's use case right now. Can it be used with phones? Yes, but it's necessary right now for PCs like tablets and 2-in-1s. When you plug your Surface into a monitor or keyboard, Continuum is the feature that makes sure it behaves with the new peripheral. This is something that competitors don't really have.

    I'm not trying to say that phones with Continuum won't be a great 1-device-fits-all for travel or business sometime. But right now, it's not that device. It can't run X86 apps, doesn't have the power of a pc, and carrying a phone, keyboard and mouse will probably be less easy than a notebook or 2-in-1. But Continuum is what makes that notebook or 2-in-1 really work.
    10-08-2015 11:58 AM
  7. jdballard's Avatar
    Hmm, I thought the event was great! Aside from no real surprises.
    Well, other than the Surface Book. I think that counts as a fairly big surprise. There were rumors of a larger Surface, but no one had any idea it would be something as cool as the Surface book.
    libra89 likes this.
    10-08-2015 12:40 PM
  8. Citizen X's Avatar
    But if you have seen their previous events this is a huge step up and they are likely going to get better.
    I hadn't seen any of the previous product launches. I never felt compelled to get information ASAP. Of course I never expected getting a phone without Qi charging and waiting months to get the 32 GB variant. That experience has made me a lot more paranoid. Well I'm glad things are going in the right direction and I do hope they get better.

    They will likely have another event in December for the Windows 10 mobile and Desktop TH2 launch. This is where they will be showing off the OS and on their flagship devices.
    Well that's cool if they do another event. Would have made more sense to do it before launch though. The other thing is if you get the faithful talking about Continuum, 4k video, details on availability, etc. We can actually talk to friends and family about it during Thanksgiving and during the holiday season. As it I have to say, I don't know a lot.

    Not sure why they merged these threads. I thought the overall presentation was good. The Surface Book was a great reveal. I was just let down by the one section I tuned in to see.
    10-08-2015 12:57 PM
  9. Citizen X's Avatar
    Well, other than the Surface Book. I think that counts as a fairly big surprise.
    Two very different threads were merged so some of the responses aren't going to make sense.
    rhapdog likes this.
    10-08-2015 12:58 PM
  10. Citizen X's Avatar
    What happens when Dad has to go somewhere but the homework still needs to be done?
    Kids in third world countries don't screw around. They get something like Dad's phone they shut up and do their homework. When I go to third world countries the people are always astonished that the majority of Americans don't have a four year college degree. Also in a lot of those countries Dad is treated like a god. If he hands you his phone you get your sh-t done. If you don't MOM will beat the crap out of you. Dad just sits in the chair reading the paper while all this is going on. Very different world.
    rhapdog likes this.
    10-08-2015 01:03 PM
  11. a5cent's Avatar
    Two very different threads were merged so some of the responses aren't going to make sense.
    Two thematically identical threads were merged. Same topic. Neither of which were about the SurfaceBook.

    Following that particular post back through the quoted posts never leads to a post that originated in the other thread :-/

    So much for that hypothesis...
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    10-08-2015 01:16 PM
  12. Jenish PJ's Avatar
    I am huge Microsoft fan. I watched the all event live from start to end. I cannot explain how much i thrilled when saw Panos Panay announces Surface products. But i am so sad because i don't think i can ever own a Surface pro 4 or Surface book with this price tag. But i am looking forward to buy a 950xl. At least i can experience the Continuum feature.

    rhapdog and libra89 like this.
    10-08-2015 01:29 PM
  13. sarangbk309's Avatar
    It was really great presentation, cant wait to watch it one more time. What I find to be most important and interesting is what we can conclude from this event.

    Initially when the leaks were coming out, things were not promising on the innovation front and the goal of achieving continuum, one windows and VR etc. Lumia 950, 950XL and surface 4 pro were obviously going to be announced with some updates in hardware like improvement in RAM, processor, etc. with windows 10 on board as suggested by leaks (like every other company(apple, google) on the planet does every year).

    But while watching the presentation what took me rather by surprise and what I consider as the most important thread which gives us a peek into future is Liquid cooling incorporated in 950&950Xl.

    How you ask? Well, we all know continuum is a great feature which can actually put a complete PC in your pocket (with some additional wires for now). And it will be even better if there are no wires. No wires at all. To remove these wires you can simply use a Bluetooth keyboard and mouse and you'll still be left with HDMI cable (for projecting the screen). One of the major difficulties that makes it impossible to remove HDMI cable from the setup, is the amount of heat generated while projecting the content from your phone to a wireless display (I often project videos from my Lumia 730 to my SmartTV and the phone gets heated like anything). Solution to this problem? Yeah, you got that right... Liquid cooling.

    So now that we have liquid cooling with Lumia 950&950XL the only thing that's left to be done is bit of the coding to improve universal apps. Microsoft will be there by next year for sure and when that happens, believe me, you'll all have a PC in your pocket for real, all ready to go. And it's going to be as soon as the next flagship, surface phone or not.

    If Microsoft decides to make wireless continuum available on 950 duo then liquid cooling will come in handy. If not then by putting liquid cooling on Lumia 950 & 950XL, Microsoft is simply testing performance of liquid cooling through this years flagships. to be able to improve it in next iteration. I also hope and think that continuum can actually made available to all older devices like 830,730,640,640xl as windows 10 is same irrespective of the devices.

    So it can be concluded that next flagship is going to be a killer with truly great continuum on board. And I'm waiting for that flagship. (This can be one of the reason to fast forward through Lumia presentation)
    Muessig and rhapdog like this.
    10-08-2015 01:58 PM
  14. rhapdog's Avatar
    "Best product launches by any company ever?"

    Sounds like an Apple commercial.

    I thought it was okay. The Band 2 and Surface 4 (even with W10) looked great. Not impressed by either of the "high end flagships" or the MacBook wannabe.
    Spoken like a true iPhan.
    FYI, the Surface Book was only compared to the MacBook Pro because it is the closest comparison in size and specs, but the specs far exceed that of a MacBook. There isn't a single area that the MacBook can truly compete with the Surface Book, just like the iPad Pro can't compete with the Surface Pro 4 (or 3, or Surface 2 even.)


    Universal apps is the big play here and its ingenious. If it doesn't work, nothing will and MS dies. They basically get to fix the mobile app problem by flexing their industry strength. They don't even have to pitch developers the phones to address this now because devs need to get on the surface line.

    Us fanboys want to see MS throw phones at us over and over but I really think their new approach is more effective. If a company forgets its strengths when attacking its weakness, it is doomed to fail
    Thank you. I love Microsoft focusing on what they do best. In the long run, it will bring what is needed for phones.

    The majority of Apple's revenue comes from phones. My advice is if you want to play in that market... you may want to get a little more serious about what you are doing.
    Microsoft (Satya Nadella, specifically) has clearly stated that they do not wish to compete in the smartphone market. They are after what comes next, after the smartphone. This is why continuum is a big deal. It's not about phones, it's about everything. The whole universal platform. Be productive like a boss with your Surface, phone, Xbox, HoloLens, whatever.

    The majority of Apple's revenue comes from phones because they have not been able to succeed in the other markets in the same way Microsoft has. Apple has only been successful in this one niche. Look at all the markets Microsoft dominates. MS Office, Cloud computing, Enterprise, Desktop OS market, and much, much more.

    Microsoft doesn't want to play in the phone market. They want to redefine it in a way that gives them the advantage. Then they will play.
    libra89 and 920Walker like this.
    10-08-2015 03:20 PM
  15. Kram Sacul's Avatar
    Spoken like a true iPhan.
    Oh please. I rather chew broken glass than carry any Apple product. I'm just not that impressed with a laptop, any laptop, especially with Book in the name.
    10-08-2015 06:11 PM
  16. Adiliyo's Avatar
    i thought it was a far better presentation than msft has given in recent memory. no one was fumbling around with demos, no one looked like they were at their public speaking 101 final. everything was very fluid and polished.

    they downplayed their phones with good reason, the specs are out (and if you think someone watching that presentation DOESN'T know about the devices because of leaks, then you have no idea who watches these things.) and the software isn't ready. if the software isn't ready, then demos are going to look like crap, probably run slow, crash, etc. that is not the image you want to give the media.

    and liquid cooling is getting so far blown out of proportion. sony has it in their new xperia's. the snapdragon 810 runs hot, this is a fact. companies needed to find ways to make it work and not have it throttle like crazy because there is no other high end silicon out that msft could use (aside from throwing an atom in there, which would have been a good idea imo) and the 820 won't be out in time for any flagship launching in the next quarter or 2. heatpipes is an elegant solution for it and the marketing works (as you can see with all the "ooohhh liquid cooling" comments.

    of course the surface and surfacebook presentations were great, those are class leading products and the surfacebook, while not something i need in my life, was freaking awesome.

    don't even get me started on hololens. if i had an extra $3,000 to burn on just cool stuff i would buy it in a hearbeat.

    so overall, great presentation. and i saw their slow process of promoting universal apps, it's either going to be huge (which is my bet) or it's going to be when msft becomes a services company because it didn't work out.

    looking at what google is doing with chrome and android, and what apple is slowly getting to with the ipad pro, universal apps are the future, and microsoft is well ahead of the game here. they've put in the hard work to make an OS that is virtually device agnostic. now they have to just get people to buy in.
    920Walker and SunToucher like this.
    10-08-2015 06:25 PM
  17. hagjohn's Avatar
    and liquid cooling is getting so far blown out of proportion. sony has it in their new xperia's. the snapdragon 810 runs hot, this is a fact. companies needed to find ways to make it work and not have it throttle like crazy because there is no other high end silicon out that msft could use (aside from throwing an atom in there, which would have been a good idea imo) and the 820 won't be out in time for any flagship launching in the next quarter or 2. heatpipes is an elegant solution for it and the marketing works (as you can see with all the "ooohhh liquid cooling" comments.
    Microsoft will hopefully be using the 810 v2.1, which, as far as I can tell, doesn't really have an overheat issue as the original 810 did. But, in any case, if you are using your phone (as a phone or texting) while using continuum with 2 apps, you are going to need a lot of cpu and gpu power. Any phone that is currently on the market is probably going to overheat, under these circumstances.
    Last edited by hagjohn; 10-09-2015 at 06:02 AM.
    10-09-2015 05:52 AM
  18. asoyemi's Avatar
    Why would they announce what is absolutely not in their control. They are not Google not Snap Chat. Both of whom would not even allow MSFT make one for them, snap chat would not even allow 3rd party app Rudy H. So, when those knuckle head teenagers are ready to grow up for the sake of their users, They will make one and announce it themselves.
    920Walker likes this.
    10-09-2015 10:46 AM
  19. Adiliyo's Avatar
    Microsoft will hopefully be using the 810 v2.1, which, as far as I can tell, doesn't really have an overheat issue as the original 810 did. But, in any case, if you are using your phone (as a phone or texting) while using continuum with 2 apps, you are going to need a lot of cpu and gpu power. Any phone that is currently on the market is probably going to overheat, under these circumstances.
    presumably everyone with products releasing soon are using the 2.1 version of the soc. sony is still using a similar heatpipe design in the xperia, where no one has torn down the nexus 6p yet to see how they are cooling it.

    the issue that lies with the 810 at this point isn't heat so much as throttling. it seems they've "fixed" the overheating issue by aggressively throttling the chip when it starts to get warm. so building the heatpipe cooling system should help to keep the chip cool enough to counteract the aggressive throttling built into it now.

    i'm not saying it's a bad solution (it's actually a very good one) and something like continuum will def need as much power out of the soc as it can get. i'm just saying they didn't do it to be edgy and they also aren't the only ones doing it. it's mostly the OMG LIQUID COOLING type comments that i kind of find irritating.

    based on the continuum features of win10, i'm even more surprised they didn't go with the atom chips in their new phones. they could probably have lowered the prices doing so as well. (look at asus's pricing to get an idea)
    10-09-2015 11:10 AM
  20. rhapdog's Avatar
    Oh please. I rather chew broken glass than carry any Apple product. I'm just not that impressed with a laptop, any laptop, especially with Book in the name.
    Yeah, it was the "MacBook wannabe" that made me say it. It just sounded like someone defending their turf. Sorry if I offended. You do realize that laptops are also called, "Notebook" computers, and the notebook class is the smaller-than-a-regular-laptop class of laptop. This is why Apple named theirs with the book. Instead of "Notebook" they changed it to "Macbook." Surface just did the same thing. Not even something Apple invented in that name.

    presumably everyone with products releasing soon are using the 2.1 version of the soc. sony is still using a similar heatpipe design in the xperia, where no one has torn down the nexus 6p yet to see how they are cooling it.

    the issue that lies with the 810 at this point isn't heat so much as throttling. it seems they've "fixed" the overheating issue by aggressively throttling the chip when it starts to get warm. so building the heatpipe cooling system should help to keep the chip cool enough to counteract the aggressive throttling built into it now.

    i'm not saying it's a bad solution (it's actually a very good one) and something like continuum will def need as much power out of the soc as it can get. i'm just saying they didn't do it to be edgy and they also aren't the only ones doing it. it's mostly the OMG LIQUID COOLING type comments that i kind of find irritating.
    You are spot on as to why the new "cooling system" is being used. However, you do realize there is a big difference in the cooling capabilities between heat pipes and liquid cooling, right? Most standard heat pipes move air to do the cooling. Liquid cooling, though it still uses pipes, is never technically referred to as heat pipes. Those heat pipes in the xperia are not the same, and though they certainly help a lot with cooling, they do not come close to the cooling capabilities of liquid cooling. I've run heat pipe systems, I've run liquid cooled systems. The liquid cooled systems I've run have run the gamut from water to liquid nitrogen. I've clocked CPUs over 7GHz using extreme methods. I know what it takes. I've been able to clock CPUs using a good quality ethylene glycol cooling system to 5GHz and beyond. Ethylene glycol is the most common liquid cooling used in pre-manufactured, closed-loop sealed systems, because while it cools as well or better than water, it doesn't have as severe of damaging effects of water should it get loose.

    Personally, I am one of those excited about the liquid cooling aspect. I think people will need to take better care, though, and not be dropping their phones every day, as it will likely damage more easily.

    based on the continuum features of win10, i'm even more surprised they didn't go with the atom chips in their new phones. they could probably have lowered the prices doing so as well. (look at asus's pricing to get an idea)
    They didn't go with the Atom chips because they don't provide the proper performance, and they also can't run continuum. The new Skylake-Y processors will be available in early 2016, and this is what has been chosen for the rumored Surface Phone. Much more powerful while being even more energy efficient according to what I've heard about them. Microsoft needed to get out new flagships with the introduction of Windows 10 Mobile to show what it is capable of doing, and the Qualcomm processors were the best available at the time. In 2016, Intel will have the best available.
    libra89 likes this.
    10-09-2015 12:06 PM
  21. pericle's Avatar
    Kids in third world countries don't screw around. They get something like Dad's phone they shut up and do their homework. When I go to third world countries the people are always astonished that the majority of Americans don't have a four year college degree. Also in a lot of those countries Dad is treated like a god. If he hands you his phone you get your sh-t done. If you don't MOM will beat the crap out of you. Dad just sits in the chair reading the paper while all this is going on. Very different world.
    I am guessing you don't realise that kids in third world countries don't use any type of PC to do homework. It's still all pen and paper.
    10-09-2015 01:22 PM
  22. rhapdog's Avatar
    I am guessing you don't realise that kids in third world countries don't use any type of PC to do homework. It's still all pen and paper.
    Actually, I thought it was pencil and paper. It's hard to correct math homework when you're writing with a pen. However, it does show confidence!

    I always did my homework without a computer as well. Of course, that was back before the advent of the home computer.
    10-09-2015 02:47 PM
  23. turco320's Avatar
    The best presentations are Apple
    10-09-2015 05:06 PM
  24. 920Walker's Avatar
    The best presentations are Apple
    When they invite MS to showcase Office apps on their latest device they improve. However, watching mediocre hardware at higher than mediocre value pricing isn't appealing no matter the presenter.
    10-09-2015 05:28 PM
  25. Kram Sacul's Avatar
    Yeah, it was the "MacBook wannabe" that made me say it. It just sounded like someone defending their turf. Sorry if I offended. You do realize that laptops are also called, "Notebook" computers, and the notebook class is the smaller-than-a-regular-laptop class of laptop. This is why Apple named theirs with the book. Instead of "Notebook" they changed it to "Macbook." Surface just did the same thing. Not even something Apple invented in that name.
    True. I was a little over the top. The Surface Book does look to be a solid (and expensive) product for those that want a great laptop.

    I'm glad they didn't call it Surfbook.
    libra89 likes this.
    10-09-2015 06:13 PM
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