So, Oct. 6th event over. Best product launches by any company ever?

[a5cent]

Re: Really underwhelmed with the event

Two very different threads were merged so some of the responses aren't going to make sense.

Two thematically identical threads were merged. Same topic. Neither of which were about the SurfaceBook.

Following that particular post back through the quoted posts never leads to a post that originated in the other thread :-/

So much for that hypothesis...

 

[Jenish PJ]

I am huge Microsoft fan. I watched the all event live from start to end. I cannot explain how much i thrilled when saw Panos Panay announces Surface products. But i am so sad because i don't think i can ever own a Surface pro 4 or Surface book with this price tag. But i am looking forward to buy a 950xl. At least i can experience the Continuum feature.

 

[sarangbk309]

It was really great presentation, can?t wait to watch it one more time. What I find to be most important and interesting is what we can conclude from this event.

Initially when the leaks were coming out, things were not promising on the innovation front and the goal of achieving continuum, one windows and VR etc. Lumia 950, 950XL and surface 4 pro were obviously going to be announced with some updates in hardware like improvement in RAM, processor, etc. with windows 10 on board as suggested by leaks (like every other company(apple, google) on the planet does every year:devil.

But while watching the presentation what took me rather by surprise and what I consider as the most important thread which gives us a peek into future is Liquid cooling incorporated in 950&950Xl.

How you ask? Well, we all know continuum is a great feature which can actually put a complete PC in your pocket (with some additional wires for now). And it will be even better if there are no wires. No wires at all. To remove these wires you can simply use a Bluetooth keyboard and mouse and you'll still be left with HDMI cable (for projecting the screen). One of the major difficulties that makes it impossible to remove HDMI cable from the setup, is the amount of heat generated while projecting the content from your phone to a wireless display (I often project videos from my Lumia 730 to my SmartTV and the phone gets heated like anything). Solution to this problem? Yeah, you got that right... Liquid cooling.

So now that we have liquid cooling with Lumia 950&950XL the only thing that's left to be done is bit of the coding to improve universal apps. Microsoft will be there by next year for sure and when that happens, believe me, you'll all have a PC in your pocket for real, all ready to go. And it's going to be as soon as the next flagship, surface phone or not.

If Microsoft decides to make wireless continuum available on 950 duo then liquid cooling will come in handy. If not then by putting liquid cooling on Lumia 950 & 950XL, Microsoft is simply testing performance of liquid cooling through this year?s flagships. to be able to improve it in next iteration. I also hope and think that continuum can actually made available to all older devices like 830,730,640,640xl as windows 10 is same irrespective of the devices. :smile:

So it can be concluded that next flagship is going to be a killer with truly great continuum on board. And I'm waiting for that flagship. (This can be one of the reason to fast forward through Lumia presentation) :wink:

 

[rhapdog]

"Best product launches by any company ever?"

Sounds like an Apple commercial.

I thought it was okay. The Band 2 and Surface 4 (even with W10) looked great. Not impressed by either of the "high end flagships" or the MacBook wannabe.

Spoken like a true iPhan.
FYI, the Surface Book was only compared to the MacBook Pro because it is the closest comparison in size and specs, but the specs far exceed that of a MacBook. There isn't a single area that the MacBook can truly compete with the Surface Book, just like the iPad Pro can't compete with the Surface Pro 4 (or 3, or Surface 2 even.)

Universal apps is the big play here and its ingenious. If it doesn't work, nothing will and MS dies. They basically get to fix the mobile app problem by flexing their industry strength. They don't even have to pitch developers the phones to address this now because devs need to get on the surface line.

Us fanboys want to see MS throw phones at us over and over but I really think their new approach is more effective. If a company forgets its strengths when attacking its weakness, it is doomed to fail

Thank you. I love Microsoft focusing on what they do best. In the long run, it will bring what is needed for phones.

The majority of Apple's revenue comes from phones. My advice is if you want to play in that market... you may want to get a little more serious about what you are doing.

Microsoft (Satya Nadella, specifically) has clearly stated that they do not wish to compete in the smartphone market. They are after what comes next, after the smartphone. This is why continuum is a big deal. It's not about phones, it's about everything. The whole universal platform. Be productive like a boss with your Surface, phone, Xbox, HoloLens, whatever.

The majority of Apple's revenue comes from phones because they have not been able to succeed in the other markets in the same way Microsoft has. Apple has only been successful in this one niche. Look at all the markets Microsoft dominates. MS Office, Cloud computing, Enterprise, Desktop OS market, and much, much more.

Microsoft doesn't want to play in the phone market. They want to redefine it in a way that gives them the advantage. Then they will play.

 

[Kram Sacul]

Spoken like a true iPhan.

Oh please. I rather chew broken glass than carry any Apple product. I'm just not that impressed with a laptop, any laptop, especially with Book in the name.

 

[Adiliyo]

i thought it was a far better presentation than msft has given in recent memory. no one was fumbling around with demos, no one looked like they were at their public speaking 101 final. everything was very fluid and polished.

they downplayed their phones with good reason, the specs are out (and if you think someone watching that presentation DOESN'T know about the devices because of leaks, then you have no idea who watches these things.) and the software isn't ready. if the software isn't ready, then demos are going to look like crap, probably run slow, crash, etc. that is not the image you want to give the media.

and liquid cooling is getting so far blown out of proportion. sony has it in their new xperia's. the snapdragon 810 runs hot, this is a fact. companies needed to find ways to make it work and not have it throttle like crazy because there is no other high end silicon out that msft could use (aside from throwing an atom in there, which would have been a good idea imo) and the 820 won't be out in time for any flagship launching in the next quarter or 2. heatpipes is an elegant solution for it and the marketing works (as you can see with all the "ooohhh liquid cooling" comments.

of course the surface and surfacebook presentations were great, those are class leading products and the surfacebook, while not something i need in my life, was freaking awesome.

don't even get me started on hololens. if i had an extra $3,000 to burn on just cool stuff i would buy it in a hearbeat.

so overall, great presentation. and i saw their slow process of promoting universal apps, it's either going to be huge (which is my bet) or it's going to be when msft becomes a services company because it didn't work out.

looking at what google is doing with chrome and android, and what apple is slowly getting to with the ipad pro, universal apps are the future, and microsoft is well ahead of the game here. they've put in the hard work to make an OS that is virtually device agnostic. now they have to just get people to buy in.

 

[hagjohn]

and liquid cooling is getting so far blown out of proportion. sony has it in their new xperia's. the snapdragon 810 runs hot, this is a fact. companies needed to find ways to make it work and not have it throttle like crazy because there is no other high end silicon out that msft could use (aside from throwing an atom in there, which would have been a good idea imo) and the 820 won't be out in time for any flagship launching in the next quarter or 2. heatpipes is an elegant solution for it and the marketing works (as you can see with all the "ooohhh liquid cooling" comments.

Microsoft will hopefully be using the 810 v2.1, which, as far as I can tell, doesn't really have an overheat issue as the original 810 did. But, in any case, if you are using your phone (as a phone or texting) while using continuum with 2 apps, you are going to need a lot of cpu and gpu power. Any phone that is currently on the market is probably going to overheat, under these circumstances.

 

[asoyemi]

Why would they announce what is absolutely not in their control. They are not Google not Snap Chat. Both of whom would not even allow MSFT make one for them, snap chat would not even allow 3rd party app Rudy H. So, when those knuckle head teenagers are ready to grow up for the sake of their users, They will make one and announce it themselves.

 

[Adiliyo]

Microsoft will hopefully be using the 810 v2.1, which, as far as I can tell, doesn't really have an overheat issue as the original 810 did. But, in any case, if you are using your phone (as a phone or texting) while using continuum with 2 apps, you are going to need a lot of cpu and gpu power. Any phone that is currently on the market is probably going to overheat, under these circumstances.

presumably everyone with products releasing soon are using the 2.1 version of the soc. sony is still using a similar heatpipe design in the xperia, where no one has torn down the nexus 6p yet to see how they are cooling it.

the issue that lies with the 810 at this point isn't heat so much as throttling. it seems they've "fixed" the overheating issue by aggressively throttling the chip when it starts to get warm. so building the heatpipe cooling system should help to keep the chip cool enough to counteract the aggressive throttling built into it now.

i'm not saying it's a bad solution (it's actually a very good one) and something like continuum will def need as much power out of the soc as it can get. i'm just saying they didn't do it to be edgy and they also aren't the only ones doing it. it's mostly the OMG LIQUID COOLING type comments that i kind of find irritating.

based on the continuum features of win10, i'm even more surprised they didn't go with the atom chips in their new phones. they could probably have lowered the prices doing so as well. (look at asus's pricing to get an idea)

 

[rhapdog]

Oh please. I rather chew broken glass than carry any Apple product. I'm just not that impressed with a laptop, any laptop, especially with Book in the name.

Yeah, it was the "MacBook wannabe" that made me say it. It just sounded like someone defending their turf. Sorry if I offended. You do realize that laptops are also called, "Notebook" computers, and the notebook class is the smaller-than-a-regular-laptop class of laptop. This is why Apple named theirs with the book. Instead of "Notebook" they changed it to "Macbook." Surface just did the same thing. Not even something Apple invented in that name.

presumably everyone with products releasing soon are using the 2.1 version of the soc. sony is still using a similar heatpipe design in the xperia, where no one has torn down the nexus 6p yet to see how they are cooling it.

the issue that lies with the 810 at this point isn't heat so much as throttling. it seems they've "fixed" the overheating issue by aggressively throttling the chip when it starts to get warm. so building the heatpipe cooling system should help to keep the chip cool enough to counteract the aggressive throttling built into it now.

i'm not saying it's a bad solution (it's actually a very good one) and something like continuum will def need as much power out of the soc as it can get. i'm just saying they didn't do it to be edgy and they also aren't the only ones doing it. it's mostly the OMG LIQUID COOLING type comments that i kind of find irritating.

You are spot on as to why the new "cooling system" is being used. However, you do realize there is a big difference in the cooling capabilities between heat pipes and liquid cooling, right? Most standard heat pipes move air to do the cooling. Liquid cooling, though it still uses pipes, is never technically referred to as heat pipes. Those heat pipes in the xperia are not the same, and though they certainly help a lot with cooling, they do not come close to the cooling capabilities of liquid cooling. I've run heat pipe systems, I've run liquid cooled systems. The liquid cooled systems I've run have run the gamut from water to liquid nitrogen. I've clocked CPUs over 7GHz using extreme methods. I know what it takes. I've been able to clock CPUs using a good quality ethylene glycol cooling system to 5GHz and beyond. Ethylene glycol is the most common liquid cooling used in pre-manufactured, closed-loop sealed systems, because while it cools as well or better than water, it doesn't have as severe of damaging effects of water should it get loose.

Personally, I am one of those excited about the liquid cooling aspect. I think people will need to take better care, though, and not be dropping their phones every day, as it will likely damage more easily.

based on the continuum features of win10, i'm even more surprised they didn't go with the atom chips in their new phones. they could probably have lowered the prices doing so as well. (look at asus's pricing to get an idea)

They didn't go with the Atom chips because they don't provide the proper performance, and they also can't run continuum. The new Skylake-Y processors will be available in early 2016, and this is what has been chosen for the rumored Surface Phone. Much more powerful while being even more energy efficient according to what I've heard about them. Microsoft needed to get out new flagships with the introduction of Windows 10 Mobile to show what it is capable of doing, and the Qualcomm processors were the best available at the time. In 2016, Intel will have the best available.

 

[pericle]

Re: Really underwhelmed with the event

Kids in third world countries don't screw around. They get something like Dad's phone they shut up and do their homework. When I go to third world countries the people are always astonished that the majority of Americans don't have a four year college degree. Also in a lot of those countries Dad is treated like a god. If he hands you his phone you get your sh-t done. If you don't MOM will beat the crap out of you. Dad just sits in the chair reading the paper while all this is going on. Very different world.

I am guessing you don't realise that kids in third world countries don't use any type of PC to do homework. It's still all pen and paper.

 

[rhapdog]

Re: Really underwhelmed with the event

I am guessing you don't realise that kids in third world countries don't use any type of PC to do homework. It's still all pen and paper.

Actually, I thought it was pencil and paper. It's hard to correct math homework when you're writing with a pen. However, it does show confidence!

I always did my homework without a computer as well. Of course, that was back before the advent of the home computer.

 

[turco320]

The best presentations are Apple

 

[920Walker]

The best presentations are Apple

When they invite MS to showcase Office apps on their latest device they improve. However, watching mediocre hardware at higher than mediocre value pricing isn't appealing no matter the presenter.

 

[Kram Sacul]

Yeah, it was the "MacBook wannabe" that made me say it. It just sounded like someone defending their turf. Sorry if I offended. You do realize that laptops are also called, "Notebook" computers, and the notebook class is the smaller-than-a-regular-laptop class of laptop. This is why Apple named theirs with the book. Instead of "Notebook" they changed it to "Macbook." Surface just did the same thing. Not even something Apple invented in that name.

True. I was a little over the top. The Surface Book does look to be a solid (and expensive) product for those that want a great laptop.

I'm glad they didn't call it Surfbook.

 

[Citizen X]

Re: Really underwhelmed with the event

Glad Daniel confirmed my feelings. I was really struck by how underwhelming the phone presentation was.

I am guessing you don't realise that kids in third world countries don't use any type of PC to do homework. It's still all pen and paper.

List for me the third world countries you've actually lived in and gone to school in. Don't tell me you are one of those egotistical western first world snobs that thinks everybody who lives in third world countries lives in caves.

 

[Adiliyo]

Re: Really underwhelmed with the event

Glad Daniel confirmed my feelings. I was really struck by how underwhelming the phone presentation was.



List for me the third world countries you've actually lived in and gone to school in. Don't tell me you are one of those egotistical western first world snobs that thinks everybody who lives in third world countries lives in caves.

thank you. i have relatives in third world countries, and while there are a lot of poor people who have little access to computers, there are a LOT of kids using computers out there poor and rich.

 

[Adiliyo]

Yeah, it was the "MacBook wannabe" that made me say it. It just sounded like someone defending their turf. Sorry if I offended. You do realize that laptops are also called, "Notebook" computers, and the notebook class is the smaller-than-a-regular-laptop class of laptop. This is why Apple named theirs with the book. Instead of "Notebook" they changed it to "Macbook." Surface just did the same thing. Not even something Apple invented in that name.



You are spot on as to why the new "cooling system" is being used. However, you do realize there is a big difference in the cooling capabilities between heat pipes and liquid cooling, right? Most standard heat pipes move air to do the cooling. Liquid cooling, though it still uses pipes, is never technically referred to as heat pipes. Those heat pipes in the xperia are not the same, and though they certainly help a lot with cooling, they do not come close to the cooling capabilities of liquid cooling. I've run heat pipe systems, I've run liquid cooled systems. The liquid cooled systems I've run have run the gamut from water to liquid nitrogen. I've clocked CPUs over 7GHz using extreme methods. I know what it takes. I've been able to clock CPUs using a good quality ethylene glycol cooling system to 5GHz and beyond. Ethylene glycol is the most common liquid cooling used in pre-manufactured, closed-loop sealed systems, because while it cools as well or better than water, it doesn't have as severe of damaging effects of water should it get loose.

Personally, I am one of those excited about the liquid cooling aspect. I think people will need to take better care, though, and not be dropping their phones every day, as it will likely damage more easily.


They didn't go with the Atom chips because they don't provide the proper performance, and they also can't run continuum. The new Skylake-Y processors will be available in early 2016, and this is what has been chosen for the rumored Surface Phone. Much more powerful while being even more energy efficient according to what I've heard about them. Microsoft needed to get out new flagships with the introduction of Windows 10 Mobile to show what it is capable of doing, and the Qualcomm processors were the best available at the time. In 2016, Intel will have the best available.

i get that they are not exactly the same, but i would be surprised if the design in the lumias wasn't a heatpipe based design vs "proper" liquid cooling. i guess we'll wait until the teardowns to see what they actually built.

 

[pericle]

Re: Really underwhelmed with the event

Glad Daniel confirmed my feelings. I was really struck by how underwhelming the phone presentation was.



List for me the third world countries you've actually lived in and gone to school in. Don't tell me you are one of those egotistical western first world snobs that thinks everybody who lives in third world countries lives in caves.

LOL, you're equating doing your homework on pen and paper rather than on a PC with living in caves? You seriously need to get some perspective.

And yes, I live in a third world country called Sri Lanka, look that up, since I am sure you would not have heard about it. And yes I did my homework on pen and paper and my children are doing the same.

 

[Citizen X]

Re: Really underwhelmed with the event

LOL, you're equating doing your homework on pen and paper rather than on a PC with living in caves? You seriously need to get some perspective.

And yes, I live in a third world country called Sri Lanka, look that up, since I am sure you would not have heard about it. And yes I did my homework on pen and paper and my children are doing the same.

News flash. Plenty of people in America grew up doing their homework with paper and pencil. Most of the leaders of our country grew up that way. I didn't get a computer of any kind till late in my education. There are people I personally know in third world countries who are getting computers younger than I did. Continuum is not something that will be in every home in third world countries but in places with an expanding middle class it will democratize computing power. And Continuum is not just for the 950 XL and above. There will be cheaper options. You don't need an i7 to utilize MS Word or surf the internet.

I think emerging markets are on MSFT's CEO's radar...

Microsoft CEO in Kenya for Windows 10 launch - Corporate News