11-06-2015 09:49 AM
116 12345
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  1. onlysublime's Avatar
    Seriously, there's no point to having Windows Mobile at all at this point. If it's not feasible to sell phones, then just get out.

    Make software for Android and iOS. If it's such a bad situation to sell phones, then don't.
    nmco9 likes this.
    10-16-2015 12:38 AM
  2. JohnIvory's Avatar
    Seriously, there's no point to having Windows Mobile at all at this point. If it's not feasible to sell phones, then just get out.

    Make software for Android and iOS. If it's such a bad situation to sell phones, then don't.
    It's almost like you didn't read a word I said. It's not all or nothing. It's not either mortgage the company on mobile or get out. Microsoft needs to have a mobile operating system or the promise of Universal apps is pointless. Microsoft needs to have a mobile operating system or they are essentially ceding a good chunk of their future to the whims of Apple and Google. What Microsoft doesn't need to do is waste money on failing strategies. If the market responds favourably to Windows Mobile, Microsoft will be ready to grow and expand with its OS. That would not be possible at all if they just threw it all away.
    libra89, 920Walker and a5cent like this.
    10-16-2015 01:10 AM
  3. elindalyne's Avatar
    again, I ask you. On a monthly basis, show me an off-contract situation that is cheaper than a contract for a high-end phone. again, you're calculating total cost at the end of a contract instead of monthly cost. we're talking everything. phone and service. there is no reason to go off-contract unless you're just looking at how much you're paying total over 2 years.

    There's a reason why we pay for a car over the months rather than paying the car upfront. Sure, paying a car upfront in total is cheaper than paying over 3 years. But what a waste of money that can be used for investment and other expenditures. Even the ultra rich negotiate a $300/month car rather than pay the full price upfront.

    Can you people not fathom monthly payments versus payments over the life of a contract?

    Microsoft is asking me to pay over $700 upfront. And they're asking me to switch carriers. Inferior carriers that drop service all the time. In my business, I actually make phone calls.
    I was totally unaware that people are unable to figure out their own financing options if they're not spoon fed to them by a store...
    920Walker likes this.
    10-16-2015 10:14 AM
  4. barnyr's Avatar
    There's a reason why we pay for a car over the months rather than paying the car upfront. Sure, paying a car upfront in total is cheaper than paying over 3 years. But what a waste of money that can be used for investment and other expenditures. Even the ultra rich negotiate a $300/month car rather than pay the full price upfront.

    Can you people not fathom monthly payments versus payments over the life of a contract?

    .
    I pay for my phone upfront and pay for my car upfront. You are paying more than 10% interest on a loan to buy a phone.
    920Walker, libra89 and a5cent like this.
    10-16-2015 11:24 AM
  5. 920Walker's Avatar
    If you want to purchase a phone by financing it and paying interest simply use a credit card.

    Do people really finance everything in life?
    10-16-2015 11:43 AM
  6. StevoPhilo's Avatar
    Even if Microsoft decided to pull from the mobile phone industry they would EVENTUALLY come back to it. Everything is moving to mobile computing. The future is there. They can afford to stay in the game for quite some time. As others have mentioned if app porting and the universal OS takes off then WM is in a great position.
    10-17-2015 03:33 PM
  7. msnawe's Avatar
    Why would a mobile developer on Android or iOS port apps via universal apps if they hadn't already seen any benefit for wp8.1?

    For example, instagram. Why would universal apps convince developers to port their app on w10? They don't even have a MacOS client despite having one for iOS.



    As soon as there is a BlackBerry 10 dual SIM, I fully quit Android.
    MikeX74 and nmco9 like this.
    10-19-2015 02:35 PM
  8. tale 85's Avatar
    Has anybody thought that Windows Mobile might be thought of an accessory to the system as a whole. A piece of hardware you just add to enhance your experience.
    Microsoft knows it's not going to win the phone wars. They just offer a phone to complement the OS.
    JohnIvory likes this.
    10-19-2015 02:48 PM
  9. msnawe's Avatar
    But nowadays I use my smartphone more than my PC..

    As soon as there is a BlackBerry 10 dual SIM, I fully quit Android.
    10-19-2015 03:57 PM
  10. JohnIvory's Avatar
    Why would a mobile developer on Android or iOS port apps via universal apps if they hadn't already seen any benefit for wp8.1?

    For example, instagram. Why would universal apps convince developers to port their app on w10? They don't even have a MacOS client despite having one for iOS.
    Well assuming Windows tablets take off (and honestly they're more likely to than Windows Phones) having a universal app for tablets basically means that phones get that app as well, without any effort.

    The big deal with Windows Mobile 10 however, is Astoria/Islandwood. If Microsoft can actually convince developers that it is cost-minimal to use these tools, then they basically have no reason not to port to Windows Mobile. If it takes them an extra hour of coding to transform their app to a Windows 10 app, it's basically a no brainer. For an extra hour they have added millions of potential customers. The key thing here is whether or not developers will bite.
    10-19-2015 04:26 PM
  11. msnawe's Avatar
    I have a Windows 8.1 tablet, Intel based. I can already install PC apps. The beauty of it is that I can even install PC open source app.

    It's more interesting as a user than being lured into a store. So this is already there in 8.1.

    Now as a phone, I only had a WP for 2 days, then I returned it. But my wp8.1 is great. When I had a WP, the apps I was looking for were not necessarily apps I would use on PC or tablet.

    So the PC / tablet convergence is good, I can see it working but we already have it in w8.1 on Intel at least. It doesn't mean than the convergence phone / tablet is that essential.

    The proof is apple already have tablet/phone convergence but it doesn't prevent people to see it ipads as a leisure toys.

    Probably having PC/tablet on one side then phone on the other was sufficient. Microsoft would have spent the money on something more valuable for WP.


    As soon as there is a BlackBerry 10 dual SIM, I fully quit Android.
    nmco9 likes this.
    10-19-2015 04:38 PM
  12. elindalyne's Avatar
    You seem to miss the point behind Windows 10 architecture and the various bridge projects..

    The Windows 10 codebase has a common core that allows for universal apps. This means you can write the same app for desktop as you can phone, xbox, hololens, iot, etc...

    Then you consider the bridge projects. Islandwood/Astoria mean easy porting of existing apps from other ecosystems. Centennial means delivery of traditional x86 apps via the store.

    All of this sets up Microsoft to be in a very good place within the next year or so ecosystem wise.
    10-19-2015 05:15 PM
  13. msnawe's Avatar
    Well this is the sort of technical innovation that really makes Microsoft engineers happy.

    As an user, I can already install exe from my PC on my tablet. It didn't cost MS much and it meets my needs on PC/tablet.

    Even if my phone apps are different from my tablet or PC, that's ok for me.

    I am not saying that developers won't port apps to w10 from Android or iPhone, some may do it.

    But I think that most who are interested would have already done the porting to 8.1.

    It's not that much of an issue because some developers already use things like unity, libgdx or even html5 to go cross platform.

    Additionally, to compete on Android, good apps really need to conform to material design, but Microsoft is also trying to impose their own philosophy on apps to ensure consistency. So it doesn't seem porting will be automatic.







    As soon as there is a BlackBerry 10 dual SIM, I fully quit Android.
    10-19-2015 05:30 PM
  14. elindalyne's Avatar
    Crossplatform frameworks only get you so far in terms of app development. In a lot of cases native code is required. Islandwood/Astoria are very different in that you can basically take an exist iOS and and Android app and port it to native code with very little effort.

    This did not exist in 8.1 in any way shape or form.
    10-19-2015 05:50 PM
  15. msnawe's Avatar
    And will it look like an android app? In terms of menus, layout, UI philosophy?

    What about dependencies on google services?

    What if google keeps changing android to make it harder to port across?



    As soon as there is a BlackBerry 10 dual SIM, I fully quit Android.
    10-19-2015 05:54 PM
  16. elindalyne's Avatar
    And will it look like an android app? In terms of menus, layout, UI philosophy?

    What about dependencies on google services?

    What if google keeps changing android to make it harder to port across?
    It benefits MSFT more to get the apps in the store to grow the ecosystem than any overarching design theme.

    As for google services, people have been able to bypass those dependencies in the past in the leaked version of Astoria and there may be a time when google services actually do come to W10 Mobile. Even if the US market share remains small, the European market share is something google can't really ignore forever.

    As for them updating their APIs... APIs can't really be used unless they available for a dev to program against...
    10-19-2015 06:05 PM
  17. msnawe's Avatar
    I didn't refer only to APIs, but the possibility of more significant changes to add more dependencies on Android.

    Additionally if google services were available in w10, then it's like Microsoft handing over Windows users to google. If they are not, some apps depending on them will be severely impaired.



    As soon as there is a BlackBerry 10 dual SIM, I fully quit Android.
    10-19-2015 06:46 PM
  18. JohnIvory's Avatar
    The final version of Astoria would allow for easy drop-in to substitute Google's services for Microsoft's. As for dependencies, I assume Astoria is going to be an ongoing project for Microsoft. While this means that if Google adds new API's the Windows Phone version of the app would be behind, that's hardly different from today. It's also a non-issue because most Android phones take months if not a full year to receive updates, giving Microsoft ample time to update Astoria and push it out to developers.

    With Islandwood it's even better. When Apple makes significant changes to their OS they update their tools to allow devs compile for older versions and target different devices, meaning that if Microsoft wants they can leave Islandwood frozen on a version of iOS and coalesce updates instead of chasing down every minor change to the API.

    Lastly having users on your mobile OS use another company's services is not handing users over to the other company. That'll be like saying that Apple has handed its users over to Google by allowing Chrome and Google Maps on their devices.
    10-19-2015 08:21 PM
  19. zldhuidsnkja's Avatar
    I think it will be really in the game when he was launched on the mobile Intel-based and can run computer applications.
    10-20-2015 05:11 AM
  20. msnawe's Avatar
    Actually it would be great if virtual box releases a universal app, because running linux on a modern tablet would be neat too.


    As soon as there is a BlackBerry 10 dual SIM, I fully quit Android.
    10-20-2015 02:03 PM
  21. mariusmuntean's Avatar
    All you guys here talk about mobile..desktop...tablets but no one has pointed an obvious point: Windows 10 is no where near to a tablet optimized experience. Totally! If you call the windows 10 on tablets a good tablet experience, it means you haven't used any other true tablet in your life, whether it is Android or IOS.
    theefman, Kram Sacul and nmco9 like this.
    10-29-2015 05:13 AM
  22. fiveaces01's Avatar
    How did a software company the size of MS get left so far behind in the mobile communications armsrace? Was it because of late entry into the market? Partly,,,and I am not sure of the real reason for such a late entry into what should have been a easy decision on where the market was going when it came to mobile computing and communications, I have a feeling that when it became obvious that MS was going to have to develop their own hardware to put any real dent into the competitions lead. Did I mention that MS is a SOFTWARE company and they have yet to prove they can make a quality mobile device on their own. It has taken till now to get their first flagship phone to market (still no word on when it will be available in this country).
    The other obvious question is to ask "what do people use their phones for besides phone calls? I believe the answer is easy, wasn't the precursor to the first iphones the ipod? Didn.t it play music? And with iTunes being on the iPhone they led the customer right to the water hole. I believe that iphones still use the same music app on their phones? What is MS on now? Their third iteration of a simple music player. First there was Zune...then Xbox...and now it is still broken and named Groove. Why do you wonder about people having doubts about the Windows phone platform when this software giant is unable to make a decent native music player. Music put mobile devices in peoples hands first..is it that difficult to think that is still a major consideration when buying a phone?
    10-29-2015 08:52 AM
  23. chuckdaly's Avatar
    Windows Phone wasn't too late to the party to succeed, it was ultimately doomed by WP7's mandated limitations. They couldn't even release a phone with an HD display without rebooting the entire platform. MS is doing it again, rebooting the matrix, and although not leaving behind all phones, like with the Wp7-8 switch, but phones over a year old. With each reboot users move on, and the same will happen now.

    Now we are being told to essentially wait for new phones after the yet-to-be-released new phones. Can you smell the smoke? Smells like the Windows Mobile dumpster fire. MS isn't going to kill off mobile, but just let it burn.
    nmco9 likes this.
    10-29-2015 09:46 AM
  24. JohnIvory's Avatar
    Windows Phone wasn't too late to the party to succeed, it was ultimately doomed by WP7's mandated limitations. They couldn't even release a phone with an HD display without rebooting the entire platform.
    This is a roundabout statement. The reason they had limitations on the platform is because they were too late and had to get something to the market as soon as possible. This is why they used the WinCE base instead of the NT kernel, which was their plan all along.

    Now we are being told to essentially wait for new phones after the yet-to-be-released new phones. Can you smell the smoke? Smells like the Windows Mobile dumpster fire. MS isn't going to kill off mobile, but just let it burn.
    No one is telling you to wait. It's all the people that are inexplicably hurt by the fact that the 950/XL don't have all the colours. No one knows anything about the Surface Phone so it's a little absurd that the fanbase built anticipation for it to this extent. If you don't like the platform, leave.
    10-29-2015 11:34 AM
  25. Boysie1's Avatar
    I think the idea is it will be as powerful as a big pro 4. Smaller screen meaning smaller power requirements so still slim but a full pro OS
    10-30-2015 11:07 PM
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