Microsoft is not ready to do "whatever it takes" for Windows Mobile

[msnawe]

I have a Windows 8.1 tablet, Intel based. I can already install PC apps. The beauty of it is that I can even install PC open source app.

It's more interesting as a user than being lured into a store. So this is already there in 8.1.

Now as a phone, I only had a WP for 2 days, then I returned it. But my wp8.1 is great. When I had a WP, the apps I was looking for were not necessarily apps I would use on PC or tablet.

So the PC / tablet convergence is good, I can see it working but we already have it in w8.1 on Intel at least. It doesn't mean than the convergence phone / tablet is that essential.

The proof is apple already have tablet/phone convergence but it doesn't prevent people to see it ipads as a leisure toys.

Probably having PC/tablet on one side then phone on the other was sufficient. Microsoft would have spent the money on something more valuable for WP.


As soon as there is a BlackBerry 10 dual SIM, I fully quit Android.

 

[elindalyne]

You seem to miss the point behind Windows 10 architecture and the various bridge projects..

The Windows 10 codebase has a common core that allows for universal apps. This means you can write the same app for desktop as you can phone, xbox, hololens, iot, etc...

Then you consider the bridge projects. Islandwood/Astoria mean easy porting of existing apps from other ecosystems. Centennial means delivery of traditional x86 apps via the store.

All of this sets up Microsoft to be in a very good place within the next year or so ecosystem wise.

 

[msnawe]

Well this is the sort of technical innovation that really makes Microsoft engineers happy.

As an user, I can already install exe from my PC on my tablet. It didn't cost MS much and it meets my needs on PC/tablet.

Even if my phone apps are different from my tablet or PC, that's ok for me.

I am not saying that developers won't port apps to w10 from Android or iPhone, some may do it.

But I think that most who are interested would have already done the porting to 8.1.

It's not that much of an issue because some developers already use things like unity, libgdx or even html5 to go cross platform.

Additionally, to compete on Android, good apps really need to conform to material design, but Microsoft is also trying to impose their own philosophy on apps to ensure consistency. So it doesn't seem porting will be automatic.







As soon as there is a BlackBerry 10 dual SIM, I fully quit Android.

 

[elindalyne]

Crossplatform frameworks only get you so far in terms of app development. In a lot of cases native code is required. Islandwood/Astoria are very different in that you can basically take an exist iOS and and Android app and port it to native code with very little effort.

This did not exist in 8.1 in any way shape or form.

 

[msnawe]

And will it look like an android app? In terms of menus, layout, UI philosophy?

What about dependencies on google services?

What if google keeps changing android to make it harder to port across?



As soon as there is a BlackBerry 10 dual SIM, I fully quit Android.

 

[elindalyne]

And will it look like an android app? In terms of menus, layout, UI philosophy?

What about dependencies on google services?

What if google keeps changing android to make it harder to port across?

It benefits MSFT more to get the apps in the store to grow the ecosystem than any overarching design theme.

As for google services, people have been able to bypass those dependencies in the past in the leaked version of Astoria and there may be a time when google services actually do come to W10 Mobile. Even if the US market share remains small, the European market share is something google can't really ignore forever.

As for them updating their APIs... APIs can't really be used unless they available for a dev to program against...

 

[msnawe]

I didn't refer only to APIs, but the possibility of more significant changes to add more dependencies on Android.

Additionally if google services were available in w10, then it's like Microsoft handing over Windows users to google. If they are not, some apps depending on them will be severely impaired.



As soon as there is a BlackBerry 10 dual SIM, I fully quit Android.

 

[JohnIvory]

The final version of Astoria would allow for easy drop-in to substitute Google's services for Microsoft's. As for dependencies, I assume Astoria is going to be an ongoing project for Microsoft. While this means that if Google adds new API's the Windows Phone version of the app would be behind, that's hardly different from today. It's also a non-issue because most Android phones take months if not a full year to receive updates, giving Microsoft ample time to update Astoria and push it out to developers.

With Islandwood it's even better. When Apple makes significant changes to their OS they update their tools to allow devs compile for older versions and target different devices, meaning that if Microsoft wants they can leave Islandwood frozen on a version of iOS and coalesce updates instead of chasing down every minor change to the API.

Lastly having users on your mobile OS use another company's services is not handing users over to the other company. That'll be like saying that Apple has handed its users over to Google by allowing Chrome and Google Maps on their devices.

 

[zldhuidsnkja]

I think it will be really in the game when he was launched on the mobile Intel-based and can run computer applications.

 

[msnawe]

Actually it would be great if virtual box releases a universal app, because running linux on a modern tablet would be neat too.


As soon as there is a BlackBerry 10 dual SIM, I fully quit Android.

 

[mariusmuntean]

All you guys here talk about mobile..desktop...tablets but no one has pointed an obvious point: Windows 10 is no where near to a tablet optimized experience. Totally! If you call the windows 10 on tablets a good tablet experience, it means you haven't used any other true tablet in your life, whether it is Android or IOS.

 

[fiveaces01]

How did a software company the size of MS get left so far behind in the mobile communications armsrace? Was it because of late entry into the market? Partly,,,and I am not sure of the real reason for such a late entry into what should have been a easy decision on where the market was going when it came to mobile computing and communications, I have a feeling that when it became obvious that MS was going to have to develop their own hardware to put any real dent into the competitions lead. Did I mention that MS is a SOFTWARE company and they have yet to prove they can make a quality mobile device on their own. It has taken till now to get their first flagship phone to market (still no word on when it will be available in this country).
The other obvious question is to ask "what do people use their phones for besides phone calls? I believe the answer is easy, wasn't the precursor to the first iphones the ipod? Didn.t it play music? And with iTunes being on the iPhone they led the customer right to the water hole. I believe that iphones still use the same music app on their phones? What is MS on now? Their third iteration of a simple music player. First there was Zune...then Xbox...and now it is still broken and named Groove. Why do you wonder about people having doubts about the Windows phone platform when this software giant is unable to make a decent native music player. Music put mobile devices in peoples hands first..is it that difficult to think that is still a major consideration when buying a phone?

 

[chuckdaly]

Windows Phone wasn't too late to the party to succeed, it was ultimately doomed by WP7's mandated limitations. They couldn't even release a phone with an HD display without rebooting the entire platform. MS is doing it again, rebooting the matrix, and although not leaving behind all phones, like with the Wp7-8 switch, but phones over a year old. With each reboot users move on, and the same will happen now.

Now we are being told to essentially wait for new phones after the yet-to-be-released new phones. Can you smell the smoke? Smells like the Windows Mobile dumpster fire. MS isn't going to kill off mobile, but just let it burn.

 

[JohnIvory]

Windows Phone wasn't too late to the party to succeed, it was ultimately doomed by WP7's mandated limitations. They couldn't even release a phone with an HD display without rebooting the entire platform.

This is a roundabout statement. The reason they had limitations on the platform is because they were too late and had to get something to the market as soon as possible. This is why they used the WinCE base instead of the NT kernel, which was their plan all along.

Now we are being told to essentially wait for new phones after the yet-to-be-released new phones. Can you smell the smoke? Smells like the Windows Mobile dumpster fire. MS isn't going to kill off mobile, but just let it burn.

No one is telling you to wait. It's all the people that are inexplicably hurt by the fact that the 950/XL don't have all the colours. No one knows anything about the Surface Phone so it's a little absurd that the fanbase built anticipation for it to this extent. If you don't like the platform, leave.

 

[Boysie1]

I think the idea is it will be as powerful as a big pro 4. Smaller screen meaning smaller power requirements so still slim but a full pro OS

 

[7a2eer]

I recommend you guys check out the differences between CISC and RISC. There is good reason why Intel is not gaining traction on mobile phones. More importantly you should study Windows Runtime.
Clearly there must be something wrong if WP fans think the future of WP is running desktop (Win32) applications.

Summary: Intel ISA is a mess, phones need to be small/fast/efficient, Intel is not the leader in performance or efficiency in mobile (and will likely never be), there needs to be applications designed for phones (with a more limited API).

EDIT: I do not mind having Intel on a phone, or being able to run X86/Win32 applications. That said I do not think the future of a mobile OS should rely on being compliant with desktop OS applications. Phones only need an extended subset of Win32...

These Lumia phones are Nokia phones. I think they will really up their game when they launch a surface phone that is intel based and can run desktop apps.

Wall of text crits you for 9999. You die

Anyways... Continuum and the bridge projects are where Microsoft sees Windows 10 Mobile going. They know they aren't going to be able to compete in the US market with their current ecosystem so they're going above and beyond to basically create a new one. Their current offerings aren't even that bad if you consider the world as a whole and not just the US market.

At this current point in time, Microsoft is actually on the rise as a whole and while the situation with the 950s is kind of disappointing in regards to carrier support, this is definitely just phase one of their overall strategy.

In a year or two, a developer will be able to take an existing IOS or Android app and port it over with very little work to not only Windows 10 mobile, but also Windows 10 desktop, Xbox and potentially Hololens. The ecosystem will catch up and distinguish itself once x86 phones come out.

See Dan's post on the front page.

I completely agree, wide adoption in the US of any Windows Mobile device will not occur until Islandwood/Astoria are completed. The x86 phones will just push it into a completely new category. People already think Continuum is pretty cool. Once Win32 apps get ported over it opens an entire new realm of possibilities.

It doesn't need to be as powerful as a dedicated tablet, just need to be powerful enough to simple day to day task. While I don't know ithe Surface Phone is a real thing, just think about the size of the Intel Compute Stick. If Microsoft can get with Intel and truly optimize an Atom CPU (while looking elsewhere for the GPU) for maximum performance and battery life with a lite weight version of Windows 10 (think IOT but with the mobile GUI), coupled with 4GB of RAM, we might have a plan.

I was just throwing the idea out there. I'm one of the few who is not and can not be productive on a phone.

Also, I'm not talking about using x86 programs on a phone, but having extra "umph" for the UWP apps, that will probably use more resources as the apps become more diversified. when docked.

But it's all about how each person use their devices. For what I do, a phone, tablet, or consumer laptop will not work for me.

I think it will be really in the game when he was launched on the mobile Intel-based and can run computer applications.

 

[strength888]

It's all about poor marketing and bad business decisions overall. The Lumia devices are better than the competition, the OS is better, it is a fact. The 950 will be a disaster simply because they're targeting a market they have no hope of ever entering, the flagship market. 90 % of these customers are paying for a brand, not a product. You won't attract them with a non-existent market share.

 

[Steve Adams]

Well this is the sort of technical innovation that really makes Microsoft engineers happy.

As an user, I can already install exe from my PC on my tablet. It didn't cost MS much and it meets my needs on PC/tablet.

Even if my phone apps are different from my tablet or PC, that's ok for me.

I am not saying that developers won't port apps to w10 from Android or iPhone, some may do it.

But I think that most who are interested would have already done the porting to 8.1.

It's not that much of an issue because some developers already use things like unity, libgdx or even html5 to go cross platform.

Additionally, to compete on Android, good apps really need to conform to material design, but Microsoft is also trying to impose their own philosophy on apps to ensure consistency. So it doesn't seem porting will be automatic.







As soon as there is a BlackBerry 10 dual SIM, I fully quit Android.

You are missing a very big part of the equation here. In 8.1, they had to create ALL the code in order to make the app. In w10 its a simple process where they just plug their android or IOS code into microsofts conversion tools and they have the windows app. THIS WAS NOT AVAILABLE on 8/8.1. That's why there were not many apps for windows/windows phone. The amount of effort was not worth the return on investment. Where as in w10 and project/xxxxx, Its a very simple non time consuming process and your user base is MUCH larger. Back in 8, you would have to develop a different app for tablets, comptuers and phones...

 

[msnawe]

In practice is rarely as smooth as it says in the tin.

And of developers really end up porting android or ios apps to wp10 on a regular basis, your wp10 user experience will look very messy. All the benefits of the WP user experience will be lost.

You will end with a mix of material design for some apps, ios for other apps and occasionally wp10 user experience.

You might as well just get an Android phone with a fake wp10 launcher.

It's much better for Microsoft to assign teams to build wp10 apps to fill in the gaps with quality apps.

 

[Steve Adams]

In practice is rarely as smooth as it says in the tin.

And of developers really end up porting android or ios apps to wp10 on a regular basis, your wp10 user experience will look very messy. All the benefits of the WP user experience will be lost.

You will end with a mix of material design for some apps, ios for other apps and occasionally wp10 user experience.

You might as well just get an Android phone with a fake wp10 launcher.

It's much better for Microsoft to assign teams to build wp10 apps to fill in the gaps with quality apps.

No it's not better to have an android phone with a wp10 skin. Android is laggy, buggy, etc. Always has been, and from what I hear, always will. having a different look on some apps will be fine with me as long as they work, and are available. My windows phone will still function as a windows phone, not a crappy laggy android phone that looks like windows.

So, No, it's not a perfect solution, but its a hell of a lot better than the alternative.

Microsoft is NOT ALLOWED to build apps for various businesses etc. They are not allowed to go, hey, we are going to build a Sirius xm app for windows phone. Why? because SIRIUS XM owns that property.

This is the simplest easiest way to get all the good apps. Make it simple for the people who own the rights to make the app for windows applications.