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  1. Kerry2112's Avatar
    05-25-2016 07:33 AM
  2. Kerry2112's Avatar
    Two great names, one great article! Sorry I missed it above, Great Deal.
    Last edited by Kerry2112; 05-25-2016 at 07:36 AM. Reason: Credit where it's due!
    Great deal likes this.
    05-25-2016 07:34 AM
  3. libra89's Avatar
    But we loyal MS folk continue to come back here hoping for better news. WC used to be all I went to because I owned a WP of some sort. Now, with a Nexus Phone & tablet, I still find myself back here reading and hoping. Good, Old habits die hard I suppose.
    Or you just are hoping to hear something good? Before this weekend, I haven't used my WP as a DD in months, but I still came here faithfully, read and commented in the forums.

    My habits slightly adjusted to reading Android Central and iMore as well. Mobile Nations is awesome...but let me end the derailing.
    05-25-2016 07:38 AM
  4. v535's Avatar
    Until I upgraded to w10m myself, I was actually afraid my phone would be worse than WP8, but w10m works w/o a hitch most of time. Aside from few missing features like no contact numbers beside contact name on phone app, HDR sometimes performs worse, etc.
    Chintan Gohel and IEhrgeizI like this.
    05-25-2016 07:46 AM
  5. Rupert Holmes's Avatar
    "C'mon there's still some of us at webOS Nation! "


    Sadly, another superior OS abandoned. HP TouchPad now running android.
    Last edited by Rupert Holmes; 05-25-2016 at 08:09 AM. Reason: forgot quote
    v535 likes this.
    05-25-2016 08:08 AM
  6. fiveaces01's Avatar
    Corporate Politics are no different at MS than they are at most other large corporations. When Ballmer left and Nadella was introduced as the new CEO, it was only a matter of time (and a short amount at that) before Nadella began his efforts to distance himself from Ballmer and his successes and failures. They have done a pretty thorough job of that too, no more devices hardware division being the most glaring change of direction. Do not forget where Nadella came from, he was heading up the Cloud Division and still seems bent on increasing profits from that area. Notice the change in the amount of free storage in OneDrive. Every leader has to make a decision when assuming control of what he wants his legacy to be tied to and apparently he doesn't see phones as part of that vision. Too bad really
    05-25-2016 09:08 AM
  7. michael Otlowski's Avatar
    I really like the operating system but WP10 is kicking my ars. I know my 928 is not officially supported but I was hoping it would run a bit better than it is. In my humble opinion WP is DEAD and I am moving to Android. I will continue to use my 928 as a back up but my frustration with WP10 is something that will take some time to get over...LOL.

    Cheers,
    05-25-2016 09:53 AM
  8. DavidinCT's Avatar
    In the market of all humans, you represent about 0.000000013%. So according to the definition used by you and many others here, we're all dead. Make sense? Nope...

    Market share has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not a product is dead! It's only a measure if popularity! Were all the unpopular kids in school dead? Nope...

    WM isn't dead until it stops evolving. As long as MS keeps paying people to develop WM, it isn't dead.

    The typical approach with a product like WM is to evolve it further and rebrand it as necessary (e.g. Surface Phone rather than Lumia). This will be repeated over and over again, for as long as MS sticks to their current strategy.

    MS can't afford NOT to have a UWP compatible device slotted in at the phone-sized form factor. They will continue to develop that capability until they change their strategy, which would likely mean exiting the consumer market and becoming another IBM.

    Until then.... not dead..
    Very valid point. The Phone is only as good as it's supported. The biggest question is will it do what you NEED ? If you DONT care about apps, or extra features (smartwatches, Tap to pay, or any of the other big features of other phones) but DO care about texts email and phone calls. ANY phone will do that for you. The only time it's really dead is when it stops working, Like you cant get picture messages (older blackberries run into this), You cant setup your phone for Office 365 (or what ever the next version is), or you cant do even basic web browsing (banking, etc).

    On a consumer end, who want to stay up with tech, even a little, it's almost/pretty much dead. Windows Phone is just a pile of broken promises. When Windows Phone 7 was annouced, the said this, that and even more that was coming. Pretty much a iPhone killer, and years and years have gone by with not even close. Features we have been hearing is coming and more and more.....still waiting for. AND WAITING. If you have been here from Windows Phone 7, you know EXACTLY what I mean here.

    So in Microsoft's eyes, it's not dead.... They just keep it going along. Microsoft has done this in the past, kind of keeping products floating along and crossing fingers that it grows...It has not worked in the past, it's not going to work here.

    They WANT to be in the mobile market, Maybe in the corporate end they will do ok with it but, for the consumer end, I dont see it going anywhere with out any promotion and they dont want to spend money on it... AKA: You cant sell the phones because you DONT have the apps but, you CANT get the apps unless you sell phones

    So, yes, ALMOST dead...
    05-25-2016 10:44 AM
  9. Gunbust3r's Avatar
    The only way corporate WM10 is going to happen is if they straight up blitz companies with free handsets. I'm talking free surface phones in the hands of entire IT departments and C-level execs in the organizations. They will need to take money on the level of that latest 900+ million and put it entirely into free handsets, support, and advertising to IT folk because let me tell you right now the anti W10M feelings in IT are strong. (This of course hinges on the product working, being awesome, and not having something like the pathetic avastar wireless that has followed Surface Pro around from the beginning)
    theefman likes this.
    05-25-2016 10:58 AM
  10. runamuck83's Avatar
    What if Microsoft's master plan is to basically make the idea of a "phone" obsolete? I mean, honestly why can't any one of my devices be my phone? I should be able to make calls, text, do any of these types of things on any device I am using at that time. The idea of a "smartphone" seems kind of out dated now. Windows 10 is the ONLY OS to offer this type of integration getting us closer to that point where I can take a phone call from any device, text from any device, use apps on any device, and all the rest of that bull-crap people do with lame useless apps. The convergence is the killer-app.

    Too bad people are too narrow minded to see this. (Not referring to anyone specifically in this post - just the general public)
    05-25-2016 11:13 AM
  11. Krystianpants's Avatar
    They won't do it because Windows phone is dead. They are the ones that wanted it dead. Every move that has culminated since the arrival of Satya has been to get rid of windows phone. It's not necessarily a bad thing. Even Terry Myerson has said that windows MOBILE will be fully supported and they will be making great future devices for enterprise and enterprise minded consumers. If that's not clear enough that it's dead then I don't know what you expect. They are doing what blackberry did. Blackberry gained its fame into consumer phones after starting off in enterprise. So MS will start off there with great devices that are more geared towards productivity like the surface pro 2-in-1's or surface book. These are doing great for them in both business and consumer market. That's because typically enterprise trickles down to consumers if the products are indeed nice products. And these won't be typical consumer phones but offer more. They may not even be labeled as phones either. They may be some sort of foldable tablet that can fit in your pocket and offer computer and phone functionality. It can be anything really. But I'm interested to see where things go. Windows phone dying isn't a bad thing for apps either. They will continue to be created thanks to the Windows 10 focus and development tools. Some companies may not see any worth in it at this point and that's fine. A lot of companies are seeing it though. They see the scale of what MS has done with windows 10. And I hope MS keeps focusing on the developer tools side of things to make it easy for developers to create apps everywhere.
    05-25-2016 11:59 AM
  12. PF Mail's Avatar
    "C'mon there's still some of us at webOS Nation! "


    Sadly, another superior OS abandoned. HP TouchPad now running android.
    Hahaha, yep, I still have a Palm Pre too. The WebOS was actually pretty cool, but again, without app support.
    05-25-2016 12:06 PM
  13. Gunbust3r's Avatar
    Even Terry Myerson has said that windows MOBILE will be fully supported and they will be making great future devices for enterprise and enterprise minded consumers.
    I guarantee you Microsoft lawyers were involved in that statement and they will do the bare minimum during this next year to meet consumer and partner obligations. The very bare minimum to avoid getting sued by anyone. They have no incentive to be all in on W10M support for the fraction of a fraction that is partner and existing devices. Things might change if surface phone is real but that's something like 12 months away.
    05-25-2016 12:20 PM
  14. a5cent's Avatar
    The only way corporate WM10 is going to happen is if they straight up blitz companies with free handsets.
    Ehmm... no. You're looking at the issue from a consumer's point of view. That's not how companies think.

    Obviously, the decision to use a particular mobile OS is made by a corporate employee who has all the same biases that consumers have. However, corporations typically have requirements most consumers neither think about nor understand. One of them is the cost of developing custom line of business software, where sharing components between servers, desktops and mobile devices is potentially a very lucrative cost saving idea. The cost of a couple thousand WM handsets is completely irrelevant in comparison. Security is another issue that corporations care about in a very different way than consumers do, as is IT administration.

    Every company does a cost benefit analysis, and for the types of corporations MS is targeting with W10M, the price of a device simply doesn't factor in that much. In most cases, MS giving the devices away would do exactly zilch. In those cases where that would make a difference, giving devices away would be just plain stupid, because there would be nothing tying that customer to W10M. That customer will be gone two years later, picked off by the next lowest bidder... for MS that would be nothing but a colossal waste of money (although it wouldn't be the first time that happened).
    Last edited by a5cent; 05-25-2016 at 07:31 PM. Reason: formatting
    05-25-2016 01:03 PM
  15. a5cent's Avatar
    They [MS] WANT to be in the mobile market, Maybe in the corporate end they will do ok with it, but for the consumer end, I don't see it going anywhere without any promotion and they don't want to spend money on it... AKA: You cant sell the phones because you DONT have the apps but, you CANT get the apps unless you sell phones

    So, yes, ALMOST dead...
    I agree with that. I think it's okay to say that from a consumer's point of view, W10M is almost dead. To claim that it is dead is BS however. Being dead is an irreversible state. Once something is dead it stays that way.

    What crystal ball are people here using that reveals to them that W10M will never recover an iota of market share, not even after being relaunched under a different brand name and when running on devices which nobody would call a smartphone?

    Don't get me wrong. I'm not predicting a huge success for W10M either. I'm not predicting anything. Those who claim W10M is dead are predicting something however. It's just that nobody here has a good enough crystal ball to believably make that prediction. That's why it's BS. The only people who can definitively and irreversibly carry WM to its grave are MS.

    It's slightly ironic that WM is receiving updates faster than ever before in its six year existence, and now is the time when some call it dead. In a way it could be seen as being the exact opposite. In a way it's never been more alive. It's also never been more unpopular however, but that's not the same as being dead.
    05-25-2016 01:55 PM
  16. fatclue_98's Avatar
    To the OP: Um, I think Myerson did say so. Maybe the title of the thread should be - "When someone at Microsoft says Windows 10 for Mobile is NOT dead, why won't anyone listen?"
    05-25-2016 02:09 PM
  17. theefman's Avatar
    Trying to define "dead" by compared to the official definition is just playing on semantics. The platform isn't growing but rather contracting at a rapid rate, sales and overall marketshare are tanking, the platform maker now says they will concentrate only on enterprise, the remaining OEMs amount to a rounding error in sales numbers..... For all intents and purposes using accepted methods of assessing phone platforms today yes, it is dead.

    But saying it's dead doesn't mean you dislike the platform, it's just being realistic and there's nothing wrong with accepting the reality when it comes to WP/W10M.
    steve_w_7 likes this.
    05-25-2016 02:19 PM
  18. a5cent's Avatar
    Trying to define "dead" by compared to the official definition is just playing on semantics. The platform isn't growing but rather contracting at a rapid rate, sales and overall marketshare are tanking, the platform maker now says they will concentrate only on enterprise, the remaining OEMs amount to a rounding error in sales numbers..... For all intents and purposes using accepted methods of assessing phone platforms today yes, it is dead.

    Ehemm... none of the accepted methods of assessing phone platforms today defines an outcome or market-state known as "dead".

    Furthermore, you required a whole paragraph to define what "dead" means to you, and you left wiggle room in that definition for MS to target corporations, which makes no sense to me. Either it's dead or it isn't, which is how most people here appear to use it.

    Many here do seem to think W10M is irreversibly and forevermore over and done with, but we know that is just plain wrong. The corporation angle you mentioned is proof of that.

    Only by being blind to the future and ignoring everything that's further out than today's market share numbers can we say it's dead.

    Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying we should wait for a better version of WM. I've moved on myself. However, that doesn't make it impossible for W10M to recover. I'm not overly hopeful, but it's not over until the fat lady sings.
    05-25-2016 03:16 PM
  19. Sheamartin's Avatar
    So I think Windows Mobile is the best kept secret. I've had the Android and it was fine. But I love this phone. And so happy I could load W10M on it.
    So maybe they'll let the secret out. And maybe then Verizon will play nice with them. Ahhh the dream.
    Chintan Gohel likes this.
    05-25-2016 03:22 PM
  20. TK2011's Avatar
    MS already stated clearly: ""We are focusing our phone efforts where we have differentiation — with enterprises that value security, manageability and our Continuum capability, and consumers who value the same," said Satya Nadella, chief executive officer of Microsoft. "We will continue to innovate across devices and on our cloud services across all mobile platforms."
    Chintan Gohel likes this.
    05-25-2016 03:36 PM
  21. theefman's Avatar
    Ehemm... none of the accepted methods of assessing phone platforms today defines an outcome or market-state known as "dead".

    Furthermore, you required a whole paragraph to define what "dead" means to you, and you left wiggle room in that definition for MS to target corporations, which makes no sense to me. Either it's dead or it isn't, which is how most people here appear to use it.

    Many here do seem to think W10M is irreversibly and forevermore over and done with, but we know that is just plain wrong. The corporation angle you mentioned is proof of that.

    Only by being blind to the future and ignoring everything that's further out than today's market share numbers can we say it's dead.

    Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying we should wait for a better version of WM. I've moved on myself. However, that doesn't make it impossible for W10M to recover. I'm not overly hopeful, but it's not over until the fat lady sings.
    Just because I mentioned what Microsoft intends to do by focusing on the enterprise doesn't change the state of the platform as it is still unproven whether they will see any success there, there's no guarantee there will be any significant uptake by that sector.

    But to the point I think is relevant, this PayPal will sunset its current Windows Phone app on June 30 | Windows Central is the kind of news that's associated with a dead platform, not one that is growing.
    Munter2 likes this.
    05-25-2016 03:48 PM
  22. wplee's Avatar
    Trying to define "dead" by compared to the official definition is just playing on semantics. The platform isn't growing but rather contracting at a rapid rate, sales and overall marketshare are tanking, the platform maker now says they will concentrate only on enterprise, the remaining OEMs amount to a rounding error in sales numbers..... For all intents and purposes using accepted methods of assessing phone platforms today yes, it is dead.

    But saying it's dead doesn't mean you dislike the platform, it's just being realistic and there's nothing wrong with accepting the reality when it comes to WP/W10M.
    Your wrong and I'll explain why.

    The "Platform" as you call it is actually Brand NEW. We've already moved on from WP my friend.

    Low adaption and slow? Yes. But Windows 10 Mobile is less than a year old. So how is it retracting? Sure its tiny and will be for a while. For 2016 there will be small growth carried by budget Lumia 550s (currently top 3 selling prepaid handset in UK) then Enterprise with HP Elite X3 until Surface Phone. Windows 10 Mobile is just a version of Windows 10. How many users does that have? 300 Million and growing fast.

    If your referring to Windows Phone as the platform then I have some news for you bro. Microsoft already killed off Windows Phone last year when they announced Windows 10 Mobile. Win10 powers everything from HoloLens to Tablets. Its the future and Windows 10 overall has been a huge success.

    Microsoft won't give up on Windows 10 Mobile because development covers everything anyway (Desktop, Xbox etc). That's the beauty of a Universal Platform.

    I'm not disillusioned.
    Lumia is dead and Windows Phone 8.1 was a Flop. They messed up so many things and failed. Those users have now moved on (hence WP fall in users).

    But Windows 10 Mobile is not going anywhere. It's universal with universal apps. We may not have many phones to pick from for a while but we have an actively developed OS, an upcoming flasgship (Elite X3) and a brand new "Surface Phone" to look forward to next year. And Once Microsoft are ready to hit the consumer market mainstream again, they have $100B in cash in the bank should they need for marketing. Exciting times are indeed ahead...
    RumoredNow, Great Bear and IJPI like this.
    05-25-2016 03:59 PM
  23. a5cent's Avatar
    Just because I mentioned what Microsoft intends to do by focusing on the enterprise doesn't change the state of the platform as it is still unproven whether they will see any success there, there's no guarantee there will be any significant uptake by that sector.
    I agree. In the same way, there is no guarantee that W10M won't eventually find success in some niche, likely not in the form of a smartphone, but as something entirely different. Failure is not certain or guaranteed, so it's not dead.

    If you were to say that the Lumia line is dead, or that MS' efforts to succeed in the consumer smartphone space are dead, then I'd agree. I was actually the first person to state that in these forums, before it was officially reported.

    That's not the question here though. The question is whether W10M as a mobile OS (not just a smartphone OS)is dead. It isn't. Not until MS stops funding software development.
    05-25-2016 04:19 PM
  24. Krystianpants's Avatar
    I agree with that. I think it's okay to say that from a consumer's point of view, W10M is almost dead. To claim that it is dead is BS however. Being dead is an irreversible state. Once something is dead it stays that way.

    What crystal ball are people here using that reveals to them that W10M will never recover an iota of market share, not even after being relaunched under a different brand name and when running on devices which nobody would call a smartphone?

    Don't get me wrong. I'm not predicting a huge success for W10M either. I'm not predicting anything. Those who claim W10M is dead are predicting something however. It's just that nobody here has a good enough crystal ball to believably make that prediction. That's why it's BS. The only people who can definitively and irreversibly carry WM to its grave are MS.

    It's slightly ironic that WM is receiving updates faster than ever before in its six year existence, and now is the time when some call it dead. In a way it could be seen as being the exact opposite. In a way it's never been more alive. It's also never been more unpopular however, but that's not the same as being dead.
    I think that there is some confusion. Windows Phone is associated with anything before windows 10. Windows 10 mobile is associated with a huge variation of devices from phones, tablets or anything else that can be considered mobile. So I consider Windows phone dead as there is no primary phone OS anymore. It's an OS that encapsulates more than phones.
    RumoredNow likes this.
    05-25-2016 04:32 PM
  25. jeffchapik's Avatar


    Last one out, get the lights.
    theefman, raycpl and steve_w_7 like this.
    05-25-2016 04:34 PM
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