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04-17-2017 05:44 AM
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  1. Kevin Rush's Avatar
    The numbers alone isn't the issue here, it's the consequences of those numbers. MS doesn't sell enough to make the app developers stay, and that's a problem.
    My Windows phone does everything I want it to and many many things I don't care about. I like the operating system and phone, so I use it. My life does not revolve around apps.

    Use what you like, or be part of the problem.
    Last edited by Kevin Rush; 02-22-2017 at 05:26 AM.
    zocster, TgeekB and Azensun like this.
    02-21-2017 10:15 AM
  2. SL2's Avatar
    My life does not revolve around apps.
    Neither does mine. Your comment has nothing to do with the quote.

    You don't need a fork, a spoon and a knife would do just fine.
    02-21-2017 09:57 PM
  3. Kevin Rush's Avatar
    Neither does mine. Your comment has nothing to do with the quote.

    You don't need a fork, a spoon and a knife would do just fine.
    Respectfully, This topic has been explored in this forum and many others over time. I recommend the article "No, Windows phone isn't dead - and it may never die" by Jason Ward on this site. Read the comments too.

    I stand by my comment:
    My Windows phone does everything I want it to and many many things I don't care about. I like the operating system and phone, so I use it. (My life does not revolve around apps.)

    Figuratively speaking, my phone has has all the "forks, spoons, and knives" I need and many that I don't use.

    Support Windows mobile phones, if you like them, or be part of the problem!

    Best Wishes
    Last edited by Kevin Rush; 02-22-2017 at 06:05 AM.
    TgeekB, FXi2 and Drael646464 like this.
    02-22-2017 05:44 AM
  4. SL2's Avatar
    I stand by my comment:
    My Windows phone does everything I want it to and many many things I don't care about. I like the operating system and phone, so I use it. (My life does not revolve around apps.)
    Now you're just repeating yourself. Read that part you quoted from me before and you'll see that I talk about consumers in general. Your comment has nothing to do with the reason for why W10M mobiles are unpopular, which was my topic.

    1 - You said a million units sold in four months isn't bad.
    2 - I said the numbers alone isn't the problem.
    3 - You said that you like your phone. << (See what I mean with offtopic?)

    You would also benefit from a more successful platform, even if you don't feel the need for apps, or don't need a new phone right now.
    More models and brands to choose from, better availability, most carriers selling most of the popular models. The lack of diversity and availability are issues for people wanting to buy a new W10M phone, even if they can get past the app gap, and app quality gap.

    Support Windows mobile phones, if you like them, or be part of the problem!
    I already support Windows, and so do you, obviously, so why do you bring this up over and over again? You make no sense here.

    I like my 950, it's the best phone I ever had.
    02-22-2017 07:17 AM
  5. Ryujingt3's Avatar
    People don't like the platform because it is not 'cool' enough. Microsoft don't promote it enough and the platform has a negative stigma surrounding it that, in all honesty, won't change. There is not enough apps or apps of quality on iOS or Android. There is not enough handsets and carrier support either. In that respect, the platform never really existed in the eyes of the consumer to start with.
    02-22-2017 08:05 AM
  6. Kevin Rush's Avatar
    Now you're just repeating yourself. Read that part you quoted from me before and you'll see that I talk about consumers in general. Your comment has nothing to do with the reason for why W10M mobiles are unpopular, which was my topic.

    1 - You said a million units sold in four months isn't bad.
    2 - I said the numbers alone isn't the problem.
    3 - You said that you like your phone. << (See what I mean with offtopic?)

    You would also benefit from a more successful platform, even if you don't feel the need for apps, or don't need a new phone right now.
    More models and brands to choose from, better availability, most carriers selling most of the popular models. The lack of diversity and availability are issues for people wanting to buy a new W10M phone, even if they can get past the app gap, and app quality gap.


    I already support Windows, and so do you, obviously, so why do you bring this up over and over again? You make no sense here.

    I like my 950, it's the best phone I ever had.
    Re: SL2,
    Respectively, no disrespect intended, but my previous comments were not intended solely as a private conversation with you. Even now, this comment to you, is intentionally made, to clarify to others, that I didn't intend to "take any specific issue" with you personally. I was, and am, commenting in a broader forum. I'm simply saying my point of view.

    Think of my comments as me "voting". Some say, why vote? A single vote makes no difference. Yet, I continue to "vote" to support Windows mobile phones.

    Again, this comment is not about you.

    Respectively,
    Best Wishes
    aximtreo and SL2 like this.
    02-22-2017 11:34 PM
  7. PerfectReign's Avatar
    People don't like the platform because it is not 'cool' enough. O
    that made me laugh. When I first started on Android (around Eclair), people told me exactly that.


    Sent from mTalk
    aximtreo likes this.
    02-22-2017 11:46 PM
  8. Ryujingt3's Avatar
    that made me laugh. When I first started on Android (around Eclair), people told me exactly that.


    Sent from mTalk
    It sounds silly, doesn't it? People just equate Windows with boring business tasks, like documents and spreadsheets. Think of the 'I'm a Mac and I'm a PC' adverts that Apple did in the past. Apple is seen as the epitome of cool and even Android has upped its game. Windows phone, sadly, won't ever shake off the boring corporate image entirely, although the Surface brand has made the Windows brand (on a tablet) at least seem moderately cool.
    02-23-2017 01:13 AM
  9. SL2's Avatar
    Windows phone, sadly, won't ever shake off the boring corporate image entirely, although the Surface brand has made the Windows brand (on a tablet) at least seem moderately cool.
    The Surface is cool, and expensive. I don't know of anyone who has a Lumia or a Surface. I have my 950, and a broken 1020, that's it.
    The way I see it, Lumias are pretty much unknown here (Sweden) these days, and Surfaces are way too expensive, and quite unknown as well.
    Besides the three common types of laptops, budget, premium and gaming, I don't think there are many other types of portable Windows products being sold here.
    02-23-2017 11:50 AM
  10. Ryujingt3's Avatar
    The Surface is cool, and expensive. I don't know of anyone who has a Lumia or a Surface. I have my 950, and a broken 1020, that's it.
    The way I see it, Lumias are pretty much unknown here (Sweden) these days, and Surfaces are way too expensive, and quite unknown as well.
    Besides the three common types of laptops, budget, premium and gaming, I don't think there are many other types of portable Windows products being sold here.
    There are very little Windows phones here in Thailand too. But, IT shops are strangely seeming to push the Surface and I see more of them out and about, instead of the usual MacBooks or iPads. The Surface tablets, and overall product line, is very expensive, I agree. The specs are also not the best, given the price, same as Apple. But, as a brand, people are starting to recognise it more and more. That's why, like everyone is speculating, and I would love to happen, whatever mobile device Microsoft does make, if any, has to be under the Surface brand for any chance of success.
    raycpl likes this.
    02-24-2017 07:48 AM
  11. Drael646464's Avatar
    The negative press surrounding the never-ending "death spiral" of Windows Mobile/Phone has created such a toxic atmosphere around this platform that I don't know how it could ever recover.

    But, one thing that I think would help would be if Microsoft would just flat out release a press release DIRECTLY addressing the headlines.

    Why won't Nadella, Myerson or whoever just release a blog post stating in so many words: "Listen, stop saying Windows Mobile is dead because we have plans to develop it for years to come. We know we're in a moment of rebirth but from the ashes will rise a phoenix".

    Or, is the reason they won't do this because they are hedging their bets? Maybe they AGREE it's dead and just want it to hit rock-bottom so that the miniscule .01% left using it won't be offended when they pull the plug?

    This whole thing is ridiculous to me... The 5 straight years of negative press toward Windows Phone finally did its job.
    Same reason Jobs didn't announce the iPhone. You don't reveal all your moves before you make them.

    If you've got the creators update you'll see it includes "Phone" "Mobile Hotspot" and "SMS/MMS settings". Put that together with windows 10 on arm demo's last year, and its actually pretty darn clear what they are doing (ie scrapping win 10 mobile, and making it all just windows 10).

    They've been pretty clear in their vision "one OS that runs on any hardware platform". Windows 10 mobile isn't that. It can't run desktop apps.

    I just think they want a little shock and awe when they unveil it, and the device they plan to demo it on. I mean a windows phone that can run win32 apps, and things like full browser, chrome extensions etc, is going to be, in some respects ages ahead of other phones. In most respects current windows 10 mobile is behind other smartphone OSs.

    It's also pretty clear Microsoft has been playing the long game and wanting to play leapfrog, with a lot of its ventures, HoloLens, VR, Cortana's skype bot integration and 'conversation as a platform", even Samsung and microsofts co-developed flexible OLED patent (BTW, they go way back, they do a lot of collab).

    Microsoft don't want just "a phone". They want "all the next things". Wearables. The word I heard them throwing around recently was "mobile PC". I think that's what they'll call this new type of phone.
    04-12-2017 07:17 AM
  12. aximtreo's Avatar
    Has it occurred to anyone else that MS is saying a lot by not saying anything at all.

    Remember the movie Shane? The last scene is Alan Ladd ridding off into the sunset and the little boy calling out "Come Back Shane" and he never did.

    I think MS is quietly letting the Surface Phone ride off into the sunset with little or nothing said.
    xandros9 and Guytronic like this.
    04-13-2017 09:14 AM
  13. Cosmin Petrenciuc's Avatar
    In her yesterday interview for Windows Central, Dona Sarkar kind of hinted Microsoft's view of Mobile. She hinted that Microsoft doesn't believe the smartphones will continue to live for much longer. She said that staring at a screen that you took out from your pocket is unnatural. She said that at Microsoft they think that swiping, pinching, touching a screen aren't natural, human gestures. So they want to invent new mobile devices categories. Probably the next mobile device that will come from Microsoft will be able to make and receive phone calls but won't be a phone.

    So Windows 10 Mobile as an operating system probably will continue to live but not on phones as we know them today. This kind of ambiguous message is exactly the one that Microsoft should stop sending. It is a confusing message. Microsoft should come out and say in a cristal clear message what exactly they are planning to do with Windows 10 Mobile.
    aximtreo and RumoredNow like this.
    04-14-2017 11:49 PM
  14. Ryujingt3's Avatar
    It's like that Ronan Keating song which goes, 'you say it best [that Windows 10M is dead], when you say nothing at all'.
    aximtreo likes this.
    04-15-2017 08:12 AM
  15. DjeTe's Avatar
    That comment from Dona was a little bit strange I think, even though I somewhat understand what she meant. But is driving a car natural, or flying an plane, many tech things is unnatural for human beings but we do it anyway. We learn and adapt. So will Microsoft avoid all things that are unnatural? Lets see that company disappear quickly.
    RumoredNow likes this.
    04-16-2017 08:05 AM
  16. Drael646464's Avatar
    That comment from Dona was a little bit strange I think, even though I somewhat understand what she meant. But is driving a car natural, or flying an plane, many tech things is unnatural for human beings but we do it anyway. We learn and adapt. So will Microsoft avoid all things that are unnatural? Lets see that company disappear quickly.
    Hence why they are working on self-driving cars.

    I think all she means is, there will be more natural ways to interact with computers. MS likely has some prototypes and plans here.
    04-16-2017 10:46 PM
  17. PerfectReign's Avatar
    I think all she means is, there will be more natural ways to interact with computers. MS likely has some prototypes and plans here.
    I thought it an interesting comment. In other words, the phone as we currently know it as both Android and Apple developed it, will no longer exist. Something else will take its place.

    At least she wasn't jumping up and down like Steve Ballmer did when he introduced windows 1 0



    Sent from mTalk
    Drael646464 likes this.
    04-17-2017 12:11 AM
  18. Kimmo Toivanen's Avatar
    In her yesterday interview for Windows Central, Dona Sarkar kind of hinted Microsoft's view of Mobile. She hinted that Microsoft doesn't believe the smartphones will continue to live for much longer. She said that staring at a screen that you took out from your pocket is unnatural. She said that at Microsoft they think that swiping, pinching, touching a screen aren't natural, human gestures. So they want to invent new mobile devices categories. Probably the next mobile device that will come from Microsoft will be able to make and receive phone calls but won't be a phone.
    This sounds like natural voice communication with Cortana and/or AI bots. Or a tablet too large for a pocket (joke ;) ). Cortana works currently in how many languages and countries? Can you chat with it?

    When we think of mobile evolution from "dump" phones to "smart phones" (Symbian etc) and revolution to real smartphones, we still stare at screens that we took out of our pockets or bags and tap the keys with our fingers.

    Microsoft can invent new and radical ways to interact with a device-that-shall-not-be-named-a-phone, but only time and adoption will show, how widely they are accepted. MS should win over existing Android and iPhone users - and that is hard. W10M did not succeed in that, quite the opposite with lack of devices, developers and apps. Continuum did not succeed in that.
    04-17-2017 04:12 AM
  19. Drael646464's Avatar
    This sounds like natural voice communication with Cortana and/or AI bots. Or a tablet too large for a pocket (joke ;) ). Cortana works currently in how many languages and countries? Can you chat with it?

    When we think of mobile evolution from "dump" phones to "smart phones" (Symbian etc) and revolution to real smartphones, we still stare at screens that we took out of our pockets or bags and tap the keys with our fingers.

    Microsoft can invent new and radical ways to interact with a device-that-shall-not-be-named-a-phone, but only time and adoption will show, how widely they are accepted. MS should win over existing Android and iPhone users - and that is hard. W10M did not succeed in that, quite the opposite with lack of devices, developers and apps. Continuum did not succeed in that.
    Have you heard of the upcoming skype bots Cortana intergration?

    https://blogs.windows.com/buildingap...-announcement/

    Sure it will only work in English at present, but fortunately its a popular language :P

    "The Cortana Skills Kit will allow developers to leverage bots created with the Microsoft Bot Framework and publish them to Cortana as a new skill, to integrate their web services as skills and to repurpose code from their existing Alexa skills to create Cortana skills. It will connect users to skills when users ask, and proactively present skills to users in the appropriate context. And it will help developers personalize their experiences by leveraging Cortana’s understanding of users’ preferences and context, based on user permissions."

    Those are the bots added recently to skype. This intergration will basically create an "ecosystem" of "conversational apps" for Cortana, the same way we have apps for other ecosystems. Making Cortana a "super app", far more capable than she is now, or likely any assistant system.

    If this is what she is talking about, we aren't far off, both the microsoft bot framework intergration, and the likely subsequent bloom of Cortana's true potential.

    MS also purchased a machine learning startup that actually _understands_ word context. Deepest AI anyone has developed for actually understanding language, rather than being a complex parrot. I suspect MS is throwing quite a lot at this conversation as a platform stuff.

    More on skype bots and Cortana -

    http://www.theverge.com/2016/3/30/11...ions-messaging

    And the language context machine learning -

    https://techcrunch.com/2017/01/13/mi...al-intelligenc

    Great thing about conversation as a platform, from MS's point of view - the existing cache of touch based apps is useless to an assistant. Everything has to be written for the machine learning and language paradigm - it's completely different. Having a great track record in one, means nothing for the other. Everything becomes conversations, assistant intergration, and info cards. Its sort of a fresh plate, a new battlefield. The person who comes up with the best system, will win that particular battle. And said conversational platform will exist in homes, smart watches, phones, computers, the works. It's also not a paradigm shift that is far off. Good bet IMO.
    Last edited by Drael646464; 04-17-2017 at 05:58 AM.
    04-17-2017 05:44 AM
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