11-17-2013 02:22 PM
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  1. rdubmu's Avatar
    I think this is great. Anything that pushed the envelope is great for us (the consumer). Look at what the iPhone did in 2007. It not only pushed the envelope, it tore it apart.



    Sent from my LG-G2 using WPCentral Forums mobile app
    11-13-2013 06:26 PM
  2. wapoz's Avatar
    This thread is so stupid it doesn't burn, it cauterizes. Half the time OP is acting as if Nokia will never update their line and only sell a low cost phone with specs like the 520, or as if Nokia will just give up, stop making phones, shut down factories and send everyone home because of the Moto G. The other half of the time it feels like OP is trying to sell the Moto G to everyone lol.

    News flash, new phones are released all the time, and they're getting cheaper with beefier specs. All this does is spur more competition in price and specs and innovation from all the other OEM's, so I see little to be worried about.
    jmshub and FinancialP like this.
    11-13-2013 06:27 PM
  3. wapoz's Avatar
    Arrogant?

    More like not ****ting my pants anytime Google or Apple releases a new product.

    We've seen these threads over and over...

    Nexus 4 is gonna kill Windows Phone

    BB10 is gonna kill Windows Phone

    Moto X is gonna kill Windows Phone

    GS4/Note 3 is gonna kill Windows Phone

    iPhone 5C is gonna kill Windows Phone

    Nexus 5 is gonna kill Windows Phone

    and so on and so forth
    This, so much this! It's the same crap we've been hearing since WP was released lol. Some new phone is released, and it's always supposed to spell the imminent death of the WP platform :P It's been more than abundantly clear that MS and Nokia are in it for the long-term when it comes to WP. It'll be interesting to see the direction they head in now that MS is trying to get all their ducks in a row internally to speed up the quality and speed of development. I'm still skeptical of Kit Kat's performance on lower end hardware, simply due to the fact that I've heard the same song and dance from google with every major release of Android, and the fact that you still see complaints from reviewers about lag and inconsistent battery life even on beefy hardware such as the Nexus 5.
    11-13-2013 06:40 PM
  4. bilzkh's Avatar
    Microsoft is in the position to respond with a similarly priced phone with similar specs. I expect a compelling upgrade to the Lumia72x and 82x line.
    11-13-2013 06:45 PM
  5. fatclue_98's Avatar
    I would be scared for all those cheap people who refuse to support the economy and spend money on a decent phone on a real carrier. I am looking at all of you who have a 520/1 or 720, and anyone who is on Tmobile
    Which economy are you referring to? Care to name any phone designed and built in the US? Carriers are multi-national conglomerates that send their profits, God knows where. At least most of the prepaids are based here. The 7-11 or Wal-Mart where you buy the refill cards are local. The salaried clerk who takes your money is local. The sales taxes are local.

    Do I go on or have you had enough? Here endeth the lesson.
    techiez, thed, eric12341 and 2 others like this.
    11-13-2013 07:08 PM
  6. ntice_521's Avatar
    This isn't a $100 phone, so the Nokia 52x is still safe. The high end Nokias sell because of the camera mainly, so they are safe too. The Moto G will take sales from mid-range Samsungs, LG, etc.
    11-13-2013 07:29 PM
  7. Jazmac's Avatar
    I mean I am,still keeping my WP.. I develop for WP, but for that price I think its a no brainier to buy. There is no WP (yet) that can compete with the G..
    First off, don't be scared. But know this, people don't have 200.00 bucks to spend on "just because" like that.
    I dated a girl in college who would buy stuff she absolutely did not need just because it was on sale. Now she had the bucks (credit cards) to do this but it never made sense to me why she would drop hundreds on stuff from her credit card for seemingly no good reason. I got rid of her with a quickness because she was unprincipled with handling money. I am also one who can't understand why anyone would want to sell-out WP to get a google ad-phone like spoiled children. You get one and before you know it, your life is not your own anymore, I don't care how tepid the involvement. I consider the price of those phones are priced like that because they value your personal information MORE than they care about making money on the device.
    11-13-2013 07:50 PM
  8. Jnbs's Avatar
    This thread is so stupid it doesn't burn, it cauterizes. Half the time OP is acting as if Nokia will never update their line and only sell a low cost phone with specs like the 520, or as if Nokia will just give up, stop making phones, shut down factories and send everyone home because of the Moto G. The other half of the time it feels like OP is trying to sell the Moto G to everyone lol.

    News flash, new phones are released all the time, and they're getting cheaper with beefier specs. All this does is spur more competition in price and specs and innovation from all the other OEM's, so I see little to be worried about.
    Sorry if I came as a seller lol.. I just wanted to state that competition got fierce and Nokia has to step up their game
    mary beth hale and FinancialP like this.
    11-13-2013 08:03 PM
  9. oldpueblo's Avatar
    The two phones are at different price points, not competing really. If I'm a geek looking for a low cost device sure I might consider it, but I'd also know what I'm getting for the additional money. Average users won't. I've seen the 520/521 as low as $80 many times already. $80 or $180 for a smartphone, most will choose the $80 every single time. WP got my Dad texting and using apps due to it's simplicity, he never did before on an Android phone. Lower price plus ease of use will win over massive app count for most "regular folks". Cheap android phones have been around for a long time, but they aren't setting records like the 520/521 for a reason. This still isn't a cheap android phone, it's priced too high for that. Sub-$100 is easily impulse buy territory, $180 not so much.
    11-13-2013 08:23 PM
  10. tgp's Avatar
    Cheap android phones have been around for a long time, but they aren't setting records like the 520/521 for a reason.
    I'm curious as to what records you mean here. Android outsells WP 20 to 1. I don't know the ratio of low end to high end Android, but if even 5% of Android phone sales are low end, it's matching the entire WP sales. Are you talking about a specific phone, such as Lumia 520 vs. LG Optimus Elite? Are you talking about a specific model's market share to the entire platform? For example, the Lumia 520 is what, 15% of all WP sales, but no low end Android is 15% of Android sales.
    FinancialP likes this.
    11-13-2013 10:11 PM
  11. techiez's Avatar
    The two phones are at different price points, not competing really. If I'm a geek looking for a low cost device sure I might consider it, but I'd also know what I'm getting for the additional money. Average users won't. I've seen the 520/521 as low as $80 many times already. $80 or $180 for a smartphone, most will choose the $80 every single time. WP got my Dad texting and using apps due to it's simplicity, he never did before on an Android phone. Lower price plus ease of use will win over massive app count for most "regular folks". Cheap android phones have been around for a long time, but they aren't setting records like the 520/521 for a reason. This still isn't a cheap android phone, it's priced too high for that. Sub-$100 is easily impulse buy territory, $180 not so much.
    its not a motog vs 520, but specs wise motog is med-high and price is impressive and they are targeting emerging markets which contribute significantly to WP.
    mary beth hale likes this.
    11-13-2013 10:11 PM
  12. rmichael75's Avatar
    Microsoft is in the position to respond with a similarly priced phone with similar specs. I expect a compelling upgrade to the Lumia72x and 82x line.
    Exactly. Nokia cannot fight this battle.. That's why they are selling it to MS who have enough resources to challenge Google with this kind of priceing.

    MS will cut it even lower as they need to get the market.

    But doing the moto g means you have taken the market out of Huawei, HTC , Sony and also Samsung lowend. So lets see what happens there if the partners are happy or not.
    11-13-2013 10:16 PM
  13. poken1151's Avatar
    So I'm not gonna say I'm scared personally as I am a bit worried for the platform (brace thy self, familiar rhetoric is on its way). So I'll say up-front I'm an Android fan. Was on the G1 and still am. I jumped in WP last year Nov. for the same reasons I jumped into the G1 when it first came out. Those reasons? Won't go into here, just know that MS and their re-invention fit the bill.
    So take what I say with whatever grain pleases thee. tl;dr version: MS needs to add to the feature set, ramp up update turnaround (I know that can be a challenge) and push for advertising differently.

    On the device front, a little under half the specs of the Moto G don't fully translate to WP I feel (though that might change in 8.1). Android's been historically heavy and has needed significant hardware because of this. However, since Jelly-Bean and now Kit-Kat this is far less true. So the lower end market's really opening up to them. Obviously, many of us can see that that's where Microsoft has been leveraging itself - these lower end markets; with the likes of Nokia steaming ahead. So yes, fans of the OS should be worried for the platform as adoptions what MS needs, and adoption can shrink really fast if app devs start pulling out, and android bleeds back into a part of the market it initially dominated. (How many apps have just up and left the WP store after being "persuaded" to port their apps?).

    So, continuing these familiar words, many of you may hate this so let me preface and say the theme is "in a different yet valued way". One MS's major dilemas is indeed a lacking marketplace. With deep trenches only being filled due to foriegn markets (like say India) or through adamant begging/partnerships (To Instagram... With Love?). We love reading news like "Windows Phone up 203% YoY!" But it's a bit harder to swallow when you realize 203% is 1.5% of the global market, if that (still an actual large number, but I hope the point is gotten). Windows Phone has a long way to go to be compelling to the majority of the public and devs. We are doing well because of some markets, some Devs that have listened to some vocal fans, and (if they exist) dev's who've ported their apps purely on the same love some WP fans feel.

    But to survive... and here it is... MS has to up OS's offerings; And do it in a timely manner. Timely. Timely. Personally, every time we get an update, it feels more or less incremental and a year or two behind. Adding some feature some vocal users cry "why do we need this??". I'm sorry fellow user, just because you can rationalize pinning every app not to miss a toast, doesn't mean the standard user want to pin every app for the same reason. I may not want to miss a toast, but the app isn't so important I want it forever pinned for that one day I get a toast in it... That's valuable space to express myself for something I don't want, or to get you perversely close to an endless start screen.

    So yes, MS will need to come punching with faster more appealing updates. Rotation-lock was the battle-cry of the last one... Rotation-Lock... Come now, we're gonna lure over users by telling them the new killer feature is to lock your screen rotation. I'm not saying it wasn't needed; overdue I feel. However it should be middling somewhere in a list of other updates from early 2012. So yes, I'm advocating all these little nitty gritty features because that is what a lot of people are looking for. What's now considered basic or fundamental options. We've upgraded from continuously tapping the back key to (almost quickly) closing using app switcher. For many these lil things matter. We can cry a lot that it's middling it's the functionality that matters, and WP will let you get more done...

    ...And that's not always true. Android, back when I switched over, may have been heavy and crashy, but If I was on the road, and I needed to do something heavy. Say... download a word doc from Dropbox, use an online converter to convert it to a PDF, then, download the conversion, attach it to an email and send it off... Mmmm... that was good. Tried doing that on WP one day in an emergency... Yea... isolated storage was a killer then. In that moment I'd have taken crashy and job-done over smooth and high walls (kinda the reason I never went IOS myself).

    Look, I'm not trying to trash the device and OS I'm currently using and believe in. I'm making these comments after making the decision to try the OS for a year (and still yet, deciding to keep going a next year) and gain some knowledge. The knowledge I've gained said, sure, you can grab new customers easy, but you're going to fail 90% of the time converting anyone on Android or IOS (else we'd be somewhere along 15%? 25%? By now,,). To alleviate this, MS needs to out much needed optionsin their feature set. Just do it in their own way.

    We can have a notification center without breaking WP's design or overly copying android, meego, BBOS, IOS. We can do more to increase inter app communications (how bout a sandbox space, fine, can't load to it via pc, and let's not say SkyDrive will always be the viable fix as it is for many devs right now). We can get more customization options beyond 20 colors and white and black; if it's even a background pattern, design for applicable live tiles OR the home screen itself. We can do tonnes more with live-tiles without going full widget commando like Android, thus maintaining our style.

    It's hard reading adverts (like the recent, and well done, Huawei commercial) that talk about our 20 colors... and not say to yourself, "If I was holding my Android device I can download one of 100 launchers (a few of which resemble WP), customize to my heart's content". This is the case, not everyone wants so much options and convulsions, fine. But there's a happier balance I feel than where we're at. And further, an easier to sell (and convert) in-between that WP was, and still somewhat, ripe for the making).

    I'm pointing out a few of the many things that many can see. They want WP's design, but it is limited, more so than you'd believe before diving in. So to say they can still do more is an understatement. The dev side of things... oi... that's another thing. I personally feel it's easy to dev on WP, and thus easy to make crappy looking (and functioning apps) apps. Some API things you wish you could do (hey let's attach a file in my IsolatedStorage to this email) and realize you can't. Luckily the dev community has a few options. But it's not the way it should soley be. The LongListSelector's had a bug in it since forever and it's been plenty confusing.

    However, you stand back and see things like Vine, implemented so close to their apps on other platforms without sacrificing too much of WP's philosophy, so one says, "why is it so hard for others to port their apps?". Well, it can be hard... I'm not that elite enough to describe the challenges, but they are there, but to be fair, I feel their not that blocking in the least.

    And then there's advertising the product and OS itself.... MS can just... do... better...

    In any case, I still thoroughly enjoy the OS, but I feel that's more because I live well on Alphajax. I don't need a crap tonne of apps, I have a few that do a good job (Sleep Well is OK for Sleep as Android replacement, not great but good, heheh). I love where I'm seeing it going, and I like the stuff it has. I just see some mistakes and take in the slow progress as a point of contention. I want it to be where it's going, yesterday. So I can be a lil worried with the Moto G news, it's re-entering a market MS's just barely digging into. Now tell people they'll get candy crush and week two updates of many prime apps at 176$... and many will wonder. Plus, walk into an ATT store and you're still more likely to be persuaded to try an android after the sales rep gives the now seemingly mandatory "Why WP is good" speech. Sat through the whole talk, then ended on the sales rep suggesting, "But I'd say try the Galaxy note 3!".

    So, I can go on, and go deeper, but that's the jist of my feelings. Tear into it if you'd like; agree disagree, what have you. But note if I'm pointing these out and I like the OS and still use it, imagine the general populous outside of the explorers, or those already in another ecosystem. These thoughts aren't wrapped in a minority.

    EDIT: Also, there's the customary easy temp fix of tossing out more similar (to the MotoG ) specked devices in the same price bracket. At that point MS will be dropping the licencing fees for the OS (if it already hasn't with the 520-525), which could be a saving grace movement.
    mary beth hale likes this.
    11-13-2013 11:12 PM
  14. ohgood's Avatar
    I'm curious as to what records you mean here. Android outsells WP 20 to 1. I don't know the ratio of low end to high end Android, but if even 5% of Android phone sales are low end, it's matching the entire WP sales. Are you talking about a specific phone, such as Lumia 520 vs. LG Optimus Elite? Are you talking about a specific model's market share to the entire platform? For example, the Lumia 520 is what, 15% of all WP sales, but no low end Android is 15% of Android sales.
    Good clarification.
    11-14-2013 12:12 AM
  15. cckgz4's Avatar
    As someone stated in this topic, there's always a "Doomsday Watch" for MS everytime something new and competitive comes out. Microsoft has been in this for DECADES, and seems to be doing pretty fine. If there wasn't healthy competition, we wouldn't have Windows Phone, the acquisition of Nokia, Xbox, Surface, Windows 8, etc. Competition is what inspired Microsoft to be where it is now and why we are able to own the tech we have. So please calm all that hootin' and hollerin about how they need to respond NOW. They have already, which is why they are ALREADY in the developing markets with the 520, 620, and 720. But I digress, since Android has a buttload of marketshare, they aren't doing enough. Some of you might need to accept the fact that Microsoft won't be #1 or even #2 within the next year or two and will STILL be in business.
    wapoz likes this.
    11-14-2013 12:22 AM
  16. Marc_SP's Avatar
    20$ for the extra storage! THAT is something all manufacturers should do. Stop charging a 500% mark-up for the flash storage. If Nokia had a Lumia 620, 720 or 820 with 16GB instead of 8GB for 20$ more, would be stupid not to pay it, considering that the "other storage" issue can't be solved by SD cards. But if there were, I am sure they would actually be between 50 and 100$ more. Crazy.

    And the saddest thing is that probably 20$ is still a lot for just 8GB more...
    11-14-2013 12:28 AM
  17. oldpueblo's Avatar
    For example, the Lumia 520 is what, 15% of all WP sales, but no low end Android is 15% of Android sales.
    That's kind of my point. What single specific low-end Android device that isn't **** is selling at any large percentage. I'm willing to bet they are equally **** and mostly cancel each other out stat-wise, and there's quite a bit of variation between them. Some are even still on 2.3 I bet. Look at the top no-contract phones on Amazon.com. Look at the prices on the first two rows and look at the hardware speeds, guess at the experience, etc. Look at the price gap, it's all sub-$100 then it jumps up past $180. To compete with something you have to compete on price first, people generally only pass up something good that's cheap if the next step up is a small step.

    http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_il_to...pUvbUpU2219064

    Is there any ONE android phone that's getting buzz at that price level? If not then it's just scattered cheap generic android devices (that already have a bad stigma) and that's not really a brand to trumpet or tell your friends about, etc. So as I said, not really competition. The new MotoG exists in another economic/social level.
    b23h likes this.
    11-14-2013 12:39 AM
  18. b23h's Avatar
    its not a motog vs 520, but specs wise motog is med-high and price is impressive and they are targeting emerging markets which contribute significantly to WP.
    I am not Chicken Little crying "the sky is falling" but I do concur that the majority of WP's growth has been in either emerging markets or markets that have a long relationship with Nokia. Motorola is a well known company (I was hoping for a Motorola WP phone up until Google bought them) and they have come out what is likely a quality product at a reasonable price. Google has the resources to push sales. There is risk that WP's momentum may be blunted to some degree. We are lucky it is not a $100 to $120 dollar phone. A hundred dollar Motorola would be potentially disastrous for WP's momentum.
    11-14-2013 12:47 AM
  19. Binoya Mathews's Avatar
    Guys,i believe as Tom Warren tweeted yesterday that there might be a reason why Nokia haven`t come out with the sequels to the 520 and 720,possibly the 525 and 725.And in addition,all those apps announced at Nokia World will at this rate be in the store before the holiday.Just chill and from the way I c it,windows phone wasn`t targeting people who just care about apps .It was more about getting things done and be virus free while at the same tym be fluid,Android hasn`t solved those things yet.Let`s c how far they go about solving the fragmentation problem on their open source platform..
    11-14-2013 01:25 AM
  20. techiez's Avatar
    20$ for the extra storage! THAT is something all manufacturers should do. Stop charging a 500% mark-up for the flash storage. If Nokia had a Lumia 620, 720 or 820 with 16GB instead of 8GB for 20$ more, would be stupid not to pay it, considering that the "other storage" issue can't be solved by SD cards. But if there were, I am sure they would actually be between 50 and 100$ more. Crazy.

    And the saddest thing is that probably 20$ is still a lot for just 8GB more...
    8gb is not useful with other storage issue and apps not being able to utilize space from SD, 720 with 16gb + 1gb ram would have been killer, surely 820 was there but design was 720 is more attractive than 820(size/bulk) I know many ppl who wanted 820 for specs but wanted 720 for its design and Nokia needs to tap this space.
    11-14-2013 01:28 AM
  21. Chregu's Avatar
    Because of this thread I read the Engadget news about this phone, and they seem to like it, however I feel no euphoria in the article.

    Motorola unveils the Moto G, its new colorful and affordable Android phone (hands-on)

    There's no mention of support for 4G/LTE, making HSPA+ your fastest data option. Which will be a deal-breaker for some, even with the low price considered (the similarly priced Lumia 625 manages to squeeze it in).
    11-14-2013 01:44 AM
  22. psudotechzealot's Avatar
    I think that the Moto G is a winner. For that price $179 (8GB) and $199 (16GB), I consider it a "flagship" phone. I am scared that it will WP users really quickly. I am buying one for instance!
    spacey-bitch-please.jpg
    crash1989 and cckgz4 like this.
    11-14-2013 04:21 AM
  23. crash1989's Avatar
    I mean I am,still keeping my WP.. I develop for WP, but for that price I think its a no brainier to buy. There is no WP (yet) that can compete with the G..
    First world issues ... this no brainer thing doesn't apply elsewhere :) and why would WP users switch to Android ? In your market people may be buying phones willy-nilly but where I live even cheap phones last people a few years
    fatclue_98 likes this.
    11-14-2013 05:46 AM
  24. crash1989's Avatar
    This phone is being released with Emerging markets as primary priority and the US and other markets as I've read. Here is why I am not at all bothered in India at least.

    Trust me they cannot come anywhere close to Nokia's presence in India. No way Motorola is scaring or even bothering me in the first place.
    Donno about the rest of the world. Heck, they can't even beat Micromax and Samsung in India
    Micromax Canvas 4 A210 vs. Motorola Moto G - GSMArena.com

    The pricing is not correct in the above link .. actual prices are here Micromax Canvas 4 Price in India 2013 14th November valid in Bangalore, Hyderabad, Chennai,Mumbai and Delhi
    and MototG cheapest is around 11,385 INR + additional taxes which are a lot (if u dont believe me Nexus 5 sells for 349$ in US which converts to 22,000 INR but it sells for 29,000INR here) . Why would anyone buy a lower spec device of the same OS at the same price?

    and Lumia 520 - 625 range is 7000 to 14000 INR ... no way to beat that and with updated devices on the way all I say Good luck MotoG capturing emerging markets like India. They haven't sold any good devices recently and Motorola brand has effectively been relegated in India now, nobody talks about them here anymore.
    Last edited by crash1989; 11-14-2013 at 06:10 AM.
    11-14-2013 05:57 AM
  25. Dave Blake's Avatar
    I want two. I need something to stop my trailer from rolling when I unhook it from my truck.
    11-14-2013 06:03 AM
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