Are We Delusional?

[N_LaRUE]

Interesting. Second app gap story I've read today. The other had an article with it.

http://forums.windowscentral.com/ge...app-situation-ever-improve-windows-phone.html

Everyone has to decide for themselves what suits them best. It seems to me that most WP users don't really care much about apps, until they want it. The reason I say that is that I keep hearing people say that apps aren't important or the 'average' person only installs 'x' apps or whatever. If the app gap wasn't important why is WP doing so poorly still? Ignoring the lack of marketing, phones available and other things. What's the hold up if apps are not that important?

Thing is, apps are important. Especially those who have friends that they want to connect with. When your friends all have 'x' app and you don't, you're left out. That is the issue that people don't seem to get. If that's not a concern for you then obviously WP fits you just fine.

WP suffers an image problem and the only way to fix it aside from better marketing and a 'WOW factor' phone is getting the apps to remove the excuses. There are other factors as well. You need all the additional features that make it worth switching. Meaning if you have saved games or information on other apps on other platforms you need to be able to access that on WP. There seems to be an issue doing that with some apps on WP.

Lastly, I own a Nexus 7 and now recently a Sony Z3. I wasn't planning on going to Android but I couldn't wait any longer for MS to release a phone I wanted. I'm quite happy and I still own my WP to check out W10 but I'm not really missing WP as much as I thought I would.

 

[Michael Alan Goff]

Interesting. Second app gap story I've read today. The other had an article with it.

http://forums.windowscentral.com/ge...app-situation-ever-improve-windows-phone.html

Everyone has to decide for themselves what suits them best. It seems to me that most WP users don't really care much about apps, until they want it. The reason I say that is that I keep hearing people say that apps aren't important or the 'average' person only installs 'x' apps or whatever. If the app gap wasn't important why is WP doing so poorly still? Ignoring the lack of marketing, phones available and other things. What's the hold up if apps are not that important?

Thing is, apps are important. Especially those who have friends that they want to connect with. When your friends all have 'x' app and you don't, you're left out. That is the issue that people don't seem to get. If that's not a concern for you then obviously WP fits you just fine.

WP suffers an image problem and the only way to fix it aside from better marketing and a 'WOW factor' phone is getting the apps to remove the excuses. There are other factors as well. You need all the additional features that make it worth switching. Meaning if you have saved games or information on other apps on other platforms you need to be able to access that on WP. There seems to be an issue doing that with some apps on WP.

Lastly, I own a Nexus 7 and now recently a Sony Z3. I wasn't planning on going to Android but I couldn't wait any longer for MS to release a phone I wanted. I'm quite happy and I still own my WP to check out W10 but I'm not really missing WP as much as I thought I would.

I agree. If you ignore every other possible problem, the app issue is huge. :|

 

[prasath1234]

I use wp as a phone nd media player.For my favourite apps Moto g is doing me good.Soon plan to buy nexus 7.So I don't feel app gap.But if wp is only your device then you will miss apps.Thats for sure.
From Windows phone

 

[MrWhiteman]

Hey, we've pushed Blackberry out of the way. That must mean something.

There is certainly no app gap with my Windows 7 / 8 / 10 PC whereas on a Mac I would have trouble playing a lot of my Steam or Origin games.

 

[Soulstream]

I think the problem is that we expect WP to just rise overnight and dethrone iOS and Android. Well, that's not going to happen. WP8 was suppose to be the savior. Then 8.1 will solve all of the problems and WP will rise. Now it's WP10 and a unified app ecosystem that will bring users in.

The truth is that iOS, Android, WP and BB10 all do the same things (for the most part) almost the same. All have advantages and disadvantages. It's just which OS fits you the best.

I think WP just needs to be profitable for now.

 

[jmshub]

I don't personally have a problem with the app situation. I have every app I need, and most users here agree. The problem is that you visit a lot of sites with mobile apps and see this:


This is what has the "normal" smartphone user convinced that the smartphone market is a two horse race. It will be great to see the day that Windows Phone is on parity with iphone and android in mindshare. That's more important than overall marketshare.

 

[stephen_az]

I think everyone has those days, when it sort of hits you, that the app gap is real and it stinks. Compound that with being a Verizon customer, still waiting for Cyan, and news that Sprint is not currently selling any Windows Phones. The news on Windows Central for the past month has been pretty much, well, not very newsworthy. It's not the websites fault, there just hasn't been much to talk about.

I realized this morning, that as Starbucks was introducing yet, another new feature for iPhone customers (order an pre-pay) we still don't have an official app, let alone, signs of getting the same capability as iPhone customers. Yes, I have my Band, so I can awkwardly hold my wrist to scan the car code, but that seems lame compared to the whole pre-pay option. Even though we had NFC and the capability to do mobile payments years before iOS, it never materialized. Verizon customers have zero options for this currently. The truth is, I don't go to Starbucks very often, I prefer Dunkin Donuts, but I want to be able to use the new pre-payment as it rolls out and I won't be able to use it while I am a Windows Phone user. The reality is that the app gap is real and it is incredibly disheartening to long-time customers. It's not just the missing apps, it's the idea that when something new comes out, we can rarely expecting it anytime within the next year. Our third party app developers are great - like Rudy Huyn, but hamstringed by the companies that control APIs.

So, as 2014 comes to a close, I can't help but wonder, are we all just delusional to buy into what Joe Bellfiore is selling? If we really believe that Microsoft is powerless to influence companies to build apps for us or to put pressure on carriers to deliver firmware updates in a timely fashion, why should we trust that they will ever accomplish those things our that WP will ever be a competing ecosystem? Sure, the phones are awesome, and the 8.1 is great. But, even though I am on the DP program, I am still waiting for Bluetooth and camera upgrades that make my Icon a better device. My 928 performed better in low light and had a usable flash. The Icon is plagued by poor light images and the flash stinks. Cyan is supposed to improve low light shots, but I don't know for sure since we have yet to see it. The phone is now almost a year old and I am still waiting for the first real camera performance update. Even if I wanted to upgrade in early 2015, what would a Verizon customer pick? The HTC phone or....oh, wait, that is the only phone available to us right now and not even a rumor of a new phone. I can't switch carriers, either. I go to more remote areas where if you don't have VZ, you don't have service.

Waiting until Windows 10 is not good enough, any more. If Microsoft is serious about making a go of the mobile market, it's time for it take large gambles. Give free phones away - and lots of them, give a new WP away with every Xbox One, and give them to Verizon customers. Partner with Verizon to promote WP, similar to what VZ did when they launched the original Droid. Develop apps for companies for free - and lots of them. Microsoft needs to stop acting like they are a true competitor. If they were, we would get new apps and app movements closer to the same time as the iPhone and Android. Lastly, can Microsoft ever hire people to make adds that appeal to every day users? Not many people need great video when they are on a ski slope or are all that plussed about a trick cyclist in London. Show us more about Cortana, and show it all of the time. I love the Cortana vs. Siri ads, do more! Show them more!

Am about as loyal of a Microsoft customer as they come: I have owned their mobile devices dating back to the Palm Treo (most of you were probably in diapers), owned every generation of the Zune, own a Band, have owned an Xbox 360, even though I am not a gamer, a Surface RT, SP 2, and SP 3. If I don't see Microsoft as viable, who does?

Sincerely,
Disillusioned

I think the more appropriate signature would be "Sincerely, Martyr." I honestly do not see a lot of delusional people around here but certainly see lots of people with martyr complexes, doing the I have been a loyal something for years, decades, millennia, but (poor me) everything is wrong. Likewise, I see lots doing the I have been mislead about things that were obvious when I bought my phone but it is someone else's fault because Microsoft should have gotten me things they never promised. Finally, I see quite a few I am brilliant so why haven't they done what I want yet posts.

Seriously, forums are places where people come to complain but the frequency here is worse than standing in a DMV line (MVD in some states). It is as if people treat their self imposed supposed misfortune as a badge of honor. Consider this logic: 1) I am bothered by the functionality of the Starbucks app on another platform; 2) don't like holding my arm in some awkward position to use a device not available on the other platform; and 3) actually prefer Dunkin Donuts; therefore, the functionality of the app on the other platform at the place I do not prefer is a problem for me. People wonder why the word whining comes up so often here?

Leaving that specific aside, yes, there is an app gap and no it is not going away. Yes, there are also IOS and Android apps that have greater functionality. There is a remarkably simple solution for anyone with those problems. Stop playing the martyr and buy something that works for you. This is not a religion (more cult than mainstream anyway) nor is it citizenry in some country where you would need to be a refugee. It is a mobile OS and you get no points (or anything else) for loyalty. There are two OSs that do everything you want on the app front - theoretically three if you include side loading on Blackberry. Why complain and by extension direct blame to others for your own choices when you can solve the matter in the amount of time it takes to upgrade or (with Verizon) use Early Edge to get what you want if too early to upgrade? The argument that I can't because "I love the OS" or some equivalent is also at best surreal (being polite) since it sounds more like a rationalization in a bad marriage than anything else. You love/are loyal to something that doesn't do what you want and doesn't meet needs, and much like most bad marriages, all you needed to know was just as clear before the wedding.

The reality is that app situation will continue for a long time and since this is a small market share OS, possibly indefinitely. Those who have problems as a result also have easy solutions. It makes no sense, therefore, for people to both profess loyalty and anguish when the situation is completely self imposed. I address the app gap by having my SP3 with me all the time and using Duos for some needed Android apps. BTW, the SP3 is not with me for this reason - it is just always in tow along with my DSLR. If this was not an option, I would view the situation as being annoying but since no one promised me things, that is about it. If there ever comes a time when something absolutely required another platform, I would switch to IOS and never lose a bit of sleep, nor come here to decry the tragedy.

Sorry for the lack of sympathy but this sort of stuff just gets older by the day/week/hour. The only delusions I see have nothing to do with the current status. Rather they are about an insistence that fault is with someone other than the speaker and that there are no solutions. As for lines about "I have owned every Microsoft product since the dawn of time so I am uniquely qualified," they convey arrogance more than anything else. I can make the same claims and my essential response is so what? The products work (or worked). What does that have to do with whether Windows Phone is a good choice for my needs or those of anyone else?

 

[ajb1965]

Applause

 

[leo74]

I am with you on many issues.
While I have less problem with the app gap, since I really only use a handful of apps, I get your frustration.
I am a windows fan for as long as I can remember (with a short period where I gave Apple a try), and I was thrilled when WP8 came around.
It looked so promising and it had the feel to it that it would really take off.

Well, it realty didn't take off as I expected.

I will stick to Windows and WP, because it works for me, but I understand when people get frustrated.
I am happy with my L1520, but for the first time, I am in a position where my contract is up and I have zero incentive to look into upgrading.
MSFT will have to step up their game in general to get more traction in the mobile market.

I got my SP3 yesterday and I can say with confidence, that there is nothing out there that would come even close to it.
It clearly shows that MSFT is doing something right if it comes to making devices.
Now we need to have tis mindset translated into the phone area. We need get phones which frankly blow everyone away. We need something that is at least as "cool" as the IPhone.
Without a phone that people really, REALLY want, the market share will not be significant enough to get many big name brands to invest in app development for WP.

I do believe that if MSFT is serious about it, they can get there. It won't be overnight, and we will see bumps in the road. But I fail to see the aggressiveness from MSFT to go out and roll up the market.
Maybe it will happen soon, maybe not at all.
I hope for the best and will stick with MSFT as I do for may years already, but I can see where you are coming from.

 

[prasath1234]

Why you guys left out tizen future os in India.it is going to launch this week at a price of 100$ .I believe Samsung can pull a rabbit out of a hat.Atleast in India everyone carriers a Samsung whether road vendor or cute chick.I think they don't know it is an android phone they only know it is Samsung.If tizen is optimised os compared to say android tizen will kill android.
From Windows phone

 

[KhawarNadeem]

Why you guys left out tizen future os in India.it is going to launch this week at a price of 100$ .I believe Samsung can pull a rabbit out of a hat.Atleast in India everyone carriers a Samsung whether road vendor or cute chick.I think they don't know it is an android phone they only know it is Samsung.If tizen is optimised os compared to say android tizen will kill android.
From Windows phone

Tizen doesn't even stand a chance against BlackBerry much less Windows Phone which has the near infinitely deep pockets of Microsoft backing it up. Feh.

I think I've said this before but hasn't this been the MS strategy for years now? Like didn't Microsoft lose a *lot* of money on the Xbox division in the beginning and now it turns out to be the biggest-selling console on Black Friday? They just push into a market and stay there, even if they bleed money, and eventually they gain a strong footing.

I can't imagine how the old members of this forum respond to calmly to posts like this which seem to pop up every single GD day. I've been here for just a few months and the whining is already annoying me to no end.

Like Microsoft and Nokia aren't even offering maps, or Bing rewards, or Cortana, or music/video purchase (or even streaming) services in my country (Pakistan) but I don't whine about it all day long on the web. I love the OS for what I use it for, and if I feel the need I will switch and no one will miss me here and the world will go on. How do people not see how deluded these posts are?

Here's something: If your mobile phone is SO important to you that you need to microanalyze and complain about it so hard, you have bigger problems in your life than an app gap.

 

[Silence#WP]

I think the more appropriate signature would be "Sincerely, Martyr." I honestly do not see a lot of delusional people around here but certainly see lots of people with martyr complexes, doing the I have been a loyal something for years, decades, millennia, but (poor me) everything is wrong. Likewise, I see lots doing the I have been mislead about things that were obvious when I bought my phone but it is someone else's fault because Microsoft should have gotten me things they never promised. Finally, I see quite a few I am brilliant so why haven't they done what I want yet posts.

Seriously, forums are places where people come to complain but the frequency here is worse than standing in a DMV line (MVD in some states). It is as if people treat their self imposed supposed misfortune as a badge of honor. Consider this logic: 1) I am bothered by the functionality of the Starbucks app on another platform; 2) don't like holding my arm in some awkward position to use a device not available on the other platform; and 3) actually prefer Dunkin Donuts; therefore, the functionality of the app on the other platform at the place I do not prefer is a problem for me. People wonder why the word whining comes up so often here?

Leaving that specific aside, yes, there is an app gap and no it is not going away. Yes, there are also IOS and Android apps that have greater functionality. There is a remarkably simple solution for anyone with those problems. Stop playing the martyr and buy something that works for you. This is not a religion (more cult than mainstream anyway) nor is it citizenry in some country where you would need to be a refugee. It is a mobile OS and you get no points (or anything else) for loyalty. There are two OSs that do everything you want on the app front - theoretically three if you include side loading on Blackberry. Why complain and by extension direct blame to others for your own choices when you can solve the matter in the amount of time it takes to upgrade or (with Verizon) use Early Edge to get what you want if too early to upgrade? The argument that I can't because "I love the OS" or some equivalent is also at best surreal (being polite) since it sounds more like a rationalization in a bad marriage than anything else. You love/are loyal to something that doesn't do what you want and doesn't meet needs, and much like most bad marriages, all you needed to know was just as clear before the wedding.

The reality is that app situation will continue for a long time and since this is a small market share OS, possibly indefinitely. Those who have problems as a result also have easy solutions. It makes no sense, therefore, for people to both profess loyalty and anguish when the situation is completely self imposed. I address the app gap by having my SP3 with me all the time and using Duos for some needed Android apps. BTW, the SP3 is not with me for this reason - it is just always in tow along with my DSLR. If this was not an option, I would view the situation as being annoying but since no one promised me things, that is about it. If there ever comes a time when something absolutely required another platform, I would switch to IOS and never lose a bit of sleep, nor come here to decry the tragedy.

Sorry for the lack of sympathy but this sort of stuff just gets older by the day/week/hour. The only delusions I see have nothing to do with the current status. Rather they are about an insistence that fault is with someone other than the speaker and that there are no solutions. As for lines about "I have owned every Microsoft product since the dawn of time so I am uniquely qualified," they convey arrogance more than anything else. I can make the same claims and my essential response is so what? The products work (or worked). What does that have to do with whether Windows Phone is a good choice for my needs or those of anyone else?

No need to be an ***. If you don't like the thread maybe you should consider not reading it? Thread titles give you a pretty good idea of what the thread is going to be about. Seriously, forums are places where people come to complain but the frequency of people complaining about people "complaining" is worse than standing in a DMV line (MVD in some states). Now, if someone will please complain about my post complaining about people complaining about people complaining we can go full circle.

 

[BobLobIaw]

It's not just iOS, members here hate everything that's not Microsoft. Yes I'm painting with a broad brush by saying that, but the overwhelming sentiment here is that Google and Apple phones suck balls.

It's just the way it is.

There is certainly truth to your statement, but that really describes all specialized forums. You get the same derision towards Windows Phone from some in iMore and Android Central. ****** attacks are bothersome, but so are ****** police patrols. Personally, I have nothing against iOS or Android and am glad that we have so many good options to choose from.

 

[BobLobIaw]

I'm not delusional, nor am I disillusioned. I can see why some people are discouraged and I guess everyone needs to make their own choices. My only real app complaint with WP would be the lack of a solid app for private pilots. The iPad made its way into cockpits and now iOS dominates the flight apps (ForeFlight, Garmin, etc.) I don't see a solution anytime soon for WP. That is my only major complaint although I would be moderately pleased if Capital One developed an app for WP.

 

[Paul Stasik]

I've simply adjusted my expectations. After going back to Android with the Galaxy S4, I came back to WP with the Lumia 1520 and determined... if we lack something, I don't care. I resolved that I won't get caught up in the race of it all because the every day use and functionality of windows phone is what suits me best.

And yeah, honestly-- everyone I know thinks I am delusional. Or I get called a Microsoft ******. I dunno, I just prefer it-- and the things we lack, though I feel your pain (AUDIBLE! SERIOUSLY AUDIBLE!) I just get over it. I live without... as it comes it comes, but I'm never leaving windows again.

 

[Guytronic]

Are we delusional?

I think it's more about obsession with apps.
As a user of Windows on a phone I find myself using the included apps most of the time.

 

[kristalsoldier]

The title of the thread is actually an interesting one. Are we - where "we" stands for WP users - delusional? Or, would the it be more appropriate to ask: Is MS delusional (for wanting to be a major H/W player in the mobile market)?

To start off, I would like to refer to a recent article that I read. I am not sure how much credence to give to it, but it seems to ring true. You can check it out here: Microsoft: Nicely entrenched in mobile | ZDNet

Essentially, the article argues that MS is well set up in the mobile space - where "well set up" means having a rather meaningful presence. This is in the form of apps that it has in the global mobile space (emphasis on global and not on a single platform) and in the services sphere.

But this further reiterates the significance of the question: Is MS delusional for wanting to be a major H/W player? On the face of it, it would appear that MS is indeed delusional. On the one hand they have Apple with its high-end and well-crafted devices with very slick apps and a comprehensive store. On the other there is Android with its plethora of OEMs who are churning out devices across virtually all price segments and which is equally backed by a comprehensive store (though often the store offerings may not be as slick as Apple's). How can MS break into such a space? Beating Blackberry does not really count as (1) it has a very small slice of the market and (2) it is a relatively niche offering.

But there are two things that lead me to believe that MS is not actually delusional. First, a lot depends on Windows 10. If MS can actually pull off what they claim they are attempting to do, then that will turn the tide - may not be immediately, but certainly within 12 months. Second, MS is effectively not going for saturated markets (i.e., Western markets). Instead, it is going for relatively untapped markets - in Asia, Africa and parts of Europe. This may explain the slew of low-end virtually "introductory" devices that they are currently making and the fact that they are giving away the OS for free. Why would they be doing this? Simply because they want marketshare, which they know they can't get in the Western world. Not only are they going for market share, they are also going for mind share. By making affordable handsets, they are putting devices and services in the reach of users who may not be able to afford the high costs that Apple and some high-profile Android OEMs demand.

But that still leaves the question of apps. Of course, there is an app gap. But closing the app gap only makes sense in the mature and saturated Western markets. Take a look at the list of apps that were listed above in a post. Now ask yourself - how many of those apps would a user in a country in Asia and Africa be missing? Answer? Very few.

But I suspect, MS is not packed with fools either. They probably know that they can hold up for about another year with this state of affairs till they release Windows 10. And, if their attempt to achieved what they have set out to do with Windows 10 is successful, they would have been able to put at the disposal on their primary strategic market (i.e., the East) a range of applications that would be (1) very familiar given that MS is still a dominant OS player in non-mobile segments globally and (2) they would be able to provide a service that no other platform could ever hope to provide - at least in the spread of offerings.

If we assume the above holds any validity, then the question arises - who indeed is delusional? Is it we who are constantly harping on closing the app gap and certain OS functionality delusional? Are we missing the point of MS's strategy? You will notice that when most tech blogs and articles write about this app gap their focus is always on the Western markets. But that is not where the growth of the mobile space lies. Why? Because, the up and coming users of mobile hardware and services are in the East and they are - in some cases - skipping a generation or two of technology to get in on the action. And, it is they who will determine the future of the mobile market.

One last point. I think - and this is just something that I picked up in my readings and conversations on this topic - that the up and coming trend in consumer-level mobile technologies is what I call the "just-enough" paradigm. In effect, this paradigm suggests that what mobile technology users want are devices and services that are "just enough" to deal with current and emergent needs. They don't need highly finely honed experiences. They want to get their work done and be done with it. Why? Because the context in which these users use their technologies is still rather under-developed and not as sophisticated as say, the Western markets. So, "just enough" devices and services work well with them. Now, as they mature and as their context matures and as a consequence of which they needs become more sophisticated, they are going to look for (1) a better experience and (2) for seamlessness with their general computing needs. With specific reference to the second point, notice how Windows 10 plays right to that gallery. And, as for the first point, notice also how with Windows 10, MS is addressing the question of experience with familiarity.

So, what do you guys think? Makes sense?

 

[Aleksandar Andreev]

The truth is that iOS, Android, WP and BB10 all do the same things (for the most part) almost the same. All have advantages and disadvantages. It's just which OS fits you the best.

That was spot on,all of them can do pretty much everything as you said,i hate when somebody talks about how blackberry is a strictly business phone,or how bad WP is and there is nothing you can do with it,it`s 2014 every OS has unique features and problems,or lack of features,but all of them will get most of the things done easily.

It's not just iOS, members here hate everything that's not Microsoft. Yes I'm painting with a broad brush by saying that, but the overwhelming sentiment here is that Google and Apple phones suck balls

Well I can speak for myself,i don`t hate iOS,actually it is a very good and stable OS(used it for more than a year)and I was very happy with it,what I don`t like is that iThings are simply overrated and overpriced(MY OPINION).About android...ok i`ll admit it,I don`t like it,and I have a dozen reasons for that,but like with everything else all of it is based on my personal experience.BB10 is a lovely OS great new features,very fluid,very smooth and I love it,i simply don`t understand why people tend to ignore blackberry especially BB10 devices.

 

[ven07]

Tizen doesn't even stand a chance against BlackBerry much less Windows Phone which has the near infinitely deep pockets of Microsoft backing it up. Feh.

I think I've said this before but hasn't this been the MS strategy for years now? Like didn't Microsoft lose a *lot* of money on the Xbox division in the beginning and now it turns out to be the biggest-selling console on Black Friday? They just push into a market and stay there, even if they bleed money, and eventually they gain a strong footing.

I can't imagine how the old members of this forum respond to calmly to posts like this which seem to pop up every single GD day. I've been here for just a few months and the whining is already annoying me to no end.

Like Microsoft and Nokia aren't even offering maps, or Bing rewards, or Cortana, or music/video purchase (or even streaming) services in my country (Pakistan) but I don't whine about it all day long on the web. I love the OS for what I use it for, and if I feel the need I will switch and no one will miss me here and the world will go on. How do people not see how deluded these posts are?

Here's something: If your mobile phone is SO important to you that you need to microanalyze and complain about it so hard, you have bigger problems in your life than an app gap.

Lol don't be discouraged.. There are users that are quite content with what WP offers right now and what might come, but they don't continuously start a new thread, otherwise WC would be full of threads that contain possible/ probable future endeavors for MS and co lol

 

[Albatross2]

For the Yinzers out there, a very functional "app" for PNCBank is available by installing WebApps and then pinning the PNCBank mobile website to your startpage. I do wish there was a Penguins app though...