Are We Delusional?

It's not just iOS, members here hate everything that's not Microsoft. Yes I'm painting with a broad brush by saying that, but the overwhelming sentiment here is that Google and Apple phones suck balls.

It's just the way it is.

What I read from a lot members here is that they really don't care it's just a preference.

I'm using an Android phone along with a Nokia 925.
I'll bet many others are doing the same...they just aren't vocal in the forums.

So yes that is a broad brush...
 
The title of the thread is actually an interesting one. Are we - where "we" stands for WP users - delusional? Or, would the it be more appropriate to ask: Is MS delusional (for wanting to be a major H/W player in the mobile market)?

To start off, I would like to refer to a recent article that I read. I am not sure how much credence to give to it, but it seems to ring true. You can check it out here: Microsoft: Nicely entrenched in mobile | ZDNet

Essentially, the article argues that MS is well set up in the mobile space - where "well set up" means having a rather meaningful presence. This is in the form of apps that it has in the global mobile space (emphasis on global and not on a single platform) and in the services sphere.

But this further reiterates the significance of the question: Is MS delusional for wanting to be a major H/W player? On the face of it, it would appear that MS is indeed delusional. On the one hand they have Apple with its high-end and well-crafted devices with very slick apps and a comprehensive store. On the other there is Android with its plethora of OEMs who are churning out devices across virtually all price segments and which is equally backed by a comprehensive store (though often the store offerings may not be as slick as Apple's). How can MS break into such a space? Beating Blackberry does not really count as (1) it has a very small slice of the market and (2) it is a relatively niche offering.

But there are two things that lead me to believe that MS is not actually delusional. First, a lot depends on Windows 10. If MS can actually pull off what they claim they are attempting to do, then that will turn the tide - may not be immediately, but certainly within 12 months. Second, MS is effectively not going for saturated markets (i.e., Western markets). Instead, it is going for relatively untapped markets - in Asia, Africa and parts of Europe. This may explain the slew of low-end virtually "introductory" devices that they are currently making and the fact that they are giving away the OS for free. Why would they be doing this? Simply because they want marketshare, which they know they can't get in the Western world. Not only are they going for market share, they are also going for mind share. By making affordable handsets, they are putting devices and services in the reach of users who may not be able to afford the high costs that Apple and some high-profile Android OEMs demand.

But that still leaves the question of apps. Of course, there is an app gap. But closing the app gap only makes sense in the mature and saturated Western markets. Take a look at the list of apps that were listed above in a post. Now ask yourself - how many of those apps would a user in a country in Asia and Africa be missing? Answer? Very few.

But I suspect, MS is not packed with fools either. They probably know that they can hold up for about another year with this state of affairs till they release Windows 10. And, if their attempt to achieved what they have set out to do with Windows 10 is successful, they would have been able to put at the disposal on their primary strategic market (i.e., the East) a range of applications that would be (1) very familiar given that MS is still a dominant OS player in non-mobile segments globally and (2) they would be able to provide a service that no other platform could ever hope to provide - at least in the spread of offerings.

If we assume the above holds any validity, then the question arises - who indeed is delusional? Is it we who are constantly harping on closing the app gap and certain OS functionality delusional? Are we missing the point of MS's strategy? You will notice that when most tech blogs and articles write about this app gap their focus is always on the Western markets. But that is not where the growth of the mobile space lies. Why? Because, the up and coming users of mobile hardware and services are in the East and they are - in some cases - skipping a generation or two of technology to get in on the action. And, it is they who will determine the future of the mobile market.

One last point. I think - and this is just something that I picked up in my readings and conversations on this topic - that the up and coming trend in consumer-level mobile technologies is what I call the "just-enough" paradigm. In effect, this paradigm suggests that what mobile technology users want are devices and services that are "just enough" to deal with current and emergent needs. They don't need highly finely honed experiences. They want to get their work done and be done with it. Why? Because the context in which these users use their technologies is still rather under-developed and not as sophisticated as say, the Western markets. So, "just enough" devices and services work well with them. Now, as they mature and as their context matures and as a consequence of which they needs become more sophisticated, they are going to look for (1) a better experience and (2) for seamlessness with their general computing needs. With specific reference to the second point, notice how Windows 10 plays right to that gallery. And, as for the first point, notice also how with Windows 10, MS is addressing the question of experience with familiarity.

So, what do you guys think? Makes sense?

Yes, it does make sense however in trying to get the emerging markets they most likely will concede the western markets to Android & IOS, unless they push the 535 into a price point so ridiculous it becomes a no brainer purchase and it is sold everywhere - from Carphone Warehouse to Asda. However the downside I see with this methodology is where does this leave their newly signed OEM partners?

As weren't they supposed to address the low end market thus leaving the high end market for Microsoft?
I guess that was the plan, until it became evident most of these OEM's really weren't going to push far with their devices to get the volume.

Right now Windows phone needs volume sales to keep the momentum going however to pull in substantial profits it needs high end flag ship sales. Without any new flagships to attract mind share that will be difficult, I'm not counting the HTC M8 variant as that is still is annoyingly locked to the US therefore the impact this could have had has been severely confined & limited. If the momentum stops, windows phone will go into a steady decline...

Flagships or not it boils down to this, most people don't know really what they want and are swayed by biased blogs, or biased reps or peer pressure from their social circle to get a device that deemed as acceptable.

It is really a dire catch-22 situation, in the eyes of most people they (Microsoft) won't win a)until they get the apps they need or/and b)until they get high end flagships that they want. Right now they need to do both - get the volume sales & get the HTC M8 into global markets asap at least that would bring in some sales. Unfortunately right now the 6 to 12 month wait is going to be too long for some (especially in the US) when their renewals come up or have upgrade an burn.

Sure, there are viable alternatives they can get however most people have been "conditioned" by the so called tech blogs if it is older than a few months then it is nothing special and can't compete with the latest & greatest. Take the 1520 for example, that is one killer phone and will last anyone who doesn't mind the size a while. Heck even the 830 is nifty little device, you get the best of everything and you hardly notice the performance hit of the SOC compared to the say the 920. The 930 on the other hand is a beast however the lack of glance is a deal killer for some.
 
Last edited:
Assuming what you said is true, I see no reason why we, western customers should keep buying windows phones, they're not designed to address our needs and we can use all Microsoft services on other platforms with a similar and sometimes better experience. Am I right or am I missing something?
 
As for the app gap, it's not always about apps like Facebook or Candy Crush. For me, having mobile apps for my bank and local mass-transit system are more important than games or social networking. I chose my phone/OS based not just on hardware or system features, but available apps. As long as people can't find the apps they NEED, not WANT, on Windows Phone, there will always be a gap. Just my view.
 
They will make more apps when they grab more market share. Doesn't the UK have almost 10%

No one make Blackberry apps either.

What really sucks is local apps never get made.

What apps so badly - go iOS or Android.

For me - my needs are met - either by app or browser for the most part - but then again, I just recently from Symbian....
 
The issue really is when we come into this forum to ***** it's rather pointless. The app gap for me isn't really an issue, as to the constant flow of low end devices. If you flip over to android central you can see a whole bunch of high end devices That one can buy at ever carrier. Yet when it comes to WP it's mostly low end 8gb . Which Windows central takes about as if they are the next big thing. One of the major issues on why people tend not to look at WP , was when WP7was launched everyone blasting it because the simple feature of C&P wasn't there we got coming soon.from that point on it was rather frowned a pone. Plus now that MS bought Nokia phone division what have we seen? Low end devices with no push for the holidays meanwhile Apple and Android-based devices have a fleet of high end devices.. Microsoft has only them selves to blame here.
 
The app gap is real for anybody with those specific needs. I'm only missing... one app right now. And while there is a 3rd party app, I'm too cheap to pay for it. But that's just me and my needs. If I didn't have access to things I needed, I'd switch. For example, if there were no way to submit songs to Last.FM or no way to track the Bahn, I'd be off.
 
to #45
You are right. I gave up lumia 520 for wpa wifi and usb tethering. MS is not thinking for consumers.
 
To the OP, yes, we are delusional. But I think that is what it takes to do something no one else is doing and make it a success.

Delusion isn't necessarily a bad thing when it comes to advancing a vision such as this one. It will take time, money, a lot of patience coupled with a dogged enthusiasm to see this mobile THE mobile OS to own.

That is where those of us determined souls have to overcome setbacks with design and application. You think Apple didn't go through this? Verizon told them to kick rocks with the first iPhone. AT&T said, ok, what the hell and the rest is history. Do you even remember the Nexus One and how delusional that crowd was? OMG man. Google sold that crap from the back of an old station wagon in front an abandoned gas station. If you had problems with your Nexus One, the station wagon was no where to be found. It was garbage, but, it had good bones and a few determined, delusional souls soldiered on to advance the "open source" concept for mobile.

Yep, we be's delusional all right. But being delusional isn't a bad thing. MS Windows, MS Word, Excel and Powerpoint at the time, XBOX, Surface etc, all delusional. Cortana was born out of that same delusion and that concept is only in its beginning stages as is Windows Phone.
 
So, to those who think the app gap is not a real obstacle, it is. The apps I am looking for are not just wish list, but all productivity based, for those of us who work and travel. When they are available on WP and not available with no plans to make an app available on WP, it is pretty frustrating. I usually suck it up when we don't have an app but can accomplish what I need to via IE, but in some cases, there is not web alternative. A perfect example is the new Adidas app for designing your shoes with a photo.

Enterprise is going to the "mobile first" design philosophy and if there are no plans to build for the few of us who use WP, we don't have the option of that product or service.

And if you didn't care for my original post, it stinks to be you. Too bad you have nothing better to do than tell people their legitimate complaints are not legitimate.
 
3rd party apps should only exist if there is already an official app like in the case of twitter. When a 3rd party app is the only option, the app could be broken at any moment by an official update, taken off the app store, missing features, or even result in peoples accounts being banned. Im grateful for everything Rudy has done but if the biggest software company in the world cant get the most popular apps on its platform after 4 years, what hope is there at all? And its not just about getting apps that are already out to the platform. Its being able to get them as they are released. Sure candy crush is on wp now but who cares? I played that game on my ipad over a year ago and couldn't care less about it now. That happened multiple times over the past few years with games like words with friends, draw something, temple run.... the list goes on. The app gap is real and it is the biggest problem with the platform. Ive finally made the switch to iOS because Ive lost any hope it is going to change over the past 4 years. User interface is not going to get people to switch to winphone if they are going to have to give up the apps and functionality they have been enjoying for years.
 
it would be great if MS brings in some form of payment through mobile operator in emerging markets like India.people in India are willing to buy apps but they do not want to pay through their credit cards or they don't have credit cards.First implement this system like what Nokia did with their ovi stores.Then developers will be interested I believe.The day android become very smooth without lags ND hangs. People even in emerging markets will leave away wp.
From Windows phone
 
Assuming what you said is true, I see no reason why we, western customers should keep buying windows phones, they're not designed to address our needs and we can use all Microsoft services on other platforms with a similar and sometimes better experience. Am I right or am I missing something?

Well, based on what I posted, the logic of that kind of a move by MS - which is pure speculation on my part - would suggest that MS is not deliberately ignoring the Western market/ consumer. It is just that the lead that Apple and Android have created is difficult to beat. So, MS has no alternative but to focus in on the emerging markets for traction for their hardware.

If you read the statements that Satya Nadella has been issuing from time to time, you will notice that he is plugging a "mobile first/ cloud first" strategy. But he is careful to do this in a platform agnostic way. Why? Because he probably knows that he cannot in the short-term beat Apple and Android in the Western, that is to say, in the matured markets. Taking this as a premise then I would have to agree that what MS is banking on is that the sophisticated Western consumer (and their Eastern counterparts) will opt for MS apps and services regardless of the platform that they are on. Simultaneously, MS is playing the market-share game in the East to be able to capture market and mind-share in terms of both hardware and software (apps and services).
 
Delusional a certifiable mental condition ? talk about hyperbole. LMAO

No, we just like Lumia phones more than their shortcomings.
 
Personally, I don't miss any apps, but I don't live life through my smartphone. However, the "app gap" will only be solved when the numbers of WP users commands attention, and that will not be solved by creating a new flagship phone that will sell in small numbers. MS is attacking the gap by creating lots of low- and mid-range models, which is where the sales numbers are worldwide. Think about it. An app developer wants their app to be used by as many people as possible, and the exact same app works (in most cases) on any level of phone. App developers want to see numbers, not flagship phones. So, celebrate the fact we are seeing lots of great and competitive phones that sell for cheap and are likely to sell large quantities, and will encourage app developers.
 
hmmmm yes
There is never going to be a need for companies to write apps for MS mobile interface.
any company can rely on IOS and Android to create customercare apps.
If you are seriously devoted to your customer you provide a decent destop app for Mac or Windows.
You will not bother with the stupid phone based OSes. It's is cool to do it anyway just letting the customers play.
If you don't bother building a phone based OS app, some kid or nerdy person will do it for you.

MS is not helping the app-market by releasing app's that prove the api's are not ready, incomplete or plain stupid.
Every nitwit is counted by MS as a WP developer but to reach the information you need to pay to become part of a developer community.
Last month i tried to reach into my phone and see if my programming skills would be an addition.
After downloading ton's of software packages ( visual something something) i managed to build an app
But were are the real building blocks? Were are the functions we rely on for 30 years?
Do we realy need to put in any command in the menu. Were are the system deep functios like select all?

The modern interface makes more sence on a phone but it still doesn't make much sence.
It feels good. But there's is some much missing that some apps could never be made.
MS can't even do it them selves so hoping for a nerd to do the job for them is pointless.

I run into some weird example on MS weird programming structure.
Audio. Although it supports extreme high quality (i was realy surpised to play 24bit 96Khz on a midrange phone)
the core of the audio cannot play two streams without a gap.
Who cares? you think, since 95% of the music is streamed nowadays.
Well i do. I want to hear my albums the way they were designed/recorded. If a shuffle function from i.e. an app of spotify ****s it up to bad but that is our choice. But not being able is plain stupid.
I don't think W(P)10 will adress this because it's not sexy enough.
It is a design error so big they (as we have seen on the desktop OS structure flaws ) will call it a design feature.

An other sign MS is not paying any attention to make it a decent OS is the USB connection.
I have never seen anything so slow since the time i had to call the internet.
And what garbage is the connection/synchronising application "Windows phone App"
Did someone write that in 5 minutes or so? This is realy the worst featured desktop aplication ever!

A phone is a phone even when WP8.1 or W(p)10 is installed.
But as a computer device it is a bit of a joke. A 3 wheeled talking car.
 
Exactly my story, only that I got a Moto X 2014. Also have the Nexus 7. I think me and my family are abandoning Windows Phone. Especially my daughter, who's finding so many cool apps in my Nexus (she's getting a tablet for Christmas). I feel like I'm kicking a puppy by ditching WP, but I've been with this since the early days, before Mango, using a Focus. Enough is enough. Besides, I can still use the fantastic Microsoft services.
 

Members online

Forum statistics

Threads
332,647
Messages
2,255,595
Members
428,719
Latest member
calletana