Cerulean Windows Phone - What's Happening?

mattiasnyc

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I agree with you Nate.

There's an argument that the Win10M platform needs devices for the masses, which in turn translates to low price, yet I think we've seen that that doesn't really work. A lower price typically indicates lower performance, and lower performance is relative to the other devices on the market. So as the Lumia phones 'age' they effectively begin to occupy that part of the market, and the question therefore is just how much more sales do we see of those phones?

I know from discussions in the forum that it ends up being a catch-22 discussion with some people, because they argue that lower-cost devices on W10M don't exist, and then when people point out the great value for money you get with the 950/950XL the argument instead becomes that there are better options, like the iPhone. But that's a different argument; absolute performance vs. performance-per-dollar. So it's a lose-lose discussion a lot of times because it just shifts to 'the other argument' without reason.

So I would think that a low- to mid-range device from Cerulean might not be enough. I think they'd face criticism for not providing an exciting device. After all, why buy that phone over a 950/950XL if the latter are cheaper at that point?

And then if they do provide a high-end device people are going to complain it's too expensive for such a small market. And if it isn't then the profit margin is low which is bad for the company.

I mean, I do hope they release a couple of phones and I do hope they are great value for the money. And I do hope they do something similar to the 950/950XL, where one is top-of-the-line and the other is either slightly below or in the middle. MS' approach to mobile makes complete sense to me and I think Cerulean phones could fit well if that's the segment they're aiming for.
 

RumoredNow

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IF the device is a rebadged Moly PCphone, which seems most likely, it is even longer in the tooth hardware wise then it might have been when those first started showing almost a year ago as the Madosma Q601 and the Funker W6.0 Pro2.

Research I have done had the Madosma running at ¥49800 or ~ $450 USD and the Funker retailing at €379.90 or ~ $410 USD. Neither of those seem to be currently available on their respective "manufacturer" site.

I truly believe that the Cerulean will add firmware touches that we have not seen on 3rd party W10M devices very much.

Here is a spreadsheet I prepped some time ago comparing the Lumia 1520, the (suspected) Cerulean and the Lumia 950 XL. Ignore the pricing, the figures are out of date for Lumia 1520 and 950 XL and for the Cerulean I'm just speculating. https://1drv.ms/x/s!AkvY2_b6DBA3itoYpI5TYNJiB7fx9Q

All that said, I think the Cerulean stacks up well against the 2 Lumias I put it next to on paper. If they tune the 13MP camera it might even surpass the untuned Idol 4S 21MP shooter for output quality. That is where I'm hoping Wharton Brooks put in some major effort. As for the SD 617, I don't really read complaints about it and I'm under the impression it is a fine SoC. My experience and reading leads me to believe that the build quality coming out of Coship is first rate.

Price is a huge factor for many. I'm hoping they can produce this device for $400 USD suggested retail. In 2013 I paid $489 for my Lumia 1520 and considered that a good price. Lumia 950 retailed starting at $549 and the XL at $649... $400 would be an aggressive price point, IMHO, given the economy of scale that the Cerulean will likely see. I would imagine with a target of US/Canada/Mexico/Brazil/Bolivia that they are ordering more units than the Japan only Madosma and Spain's Funker. The Funker would have had some cross border sales in the EU and they hit $410. Cerulean won't be able to leverage the deeper parts discounts of the first tier order though.

I'm not sure that Wharton Brooks can trim much deeper on the price tag than $400 on release. Of course, I'd love to be surprised here.

You may still #ColorMeCerulean
 

j m robin

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If/When it does come out, here's hoping Canada gets some love - definitely a challenge getting much here in terms of Windows Phone
 

fatclue_98

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I'm not sure that Wharton Brooks can trim much deeper on the price tag than $400 on release. Of course, I'd love to be surprised here.
If Murphy is hesitant to give details because of some Microsoft sage advice, it might be that Microsoft has its hands deeper in this project than they're letting on. Perhaps MS could conceivably subsidize some of the production costs to allow more aggressive pricing. Maybe it's a test run for Cerulean to become a production partner a la TCL/BlackBerry.
 

RumoredNow

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If/When it does come out, here's hoping Canada gets some love - definitely a challenge getting much here in terms of Windows Phone

They seem to be taking aim at our entire hemisphere... Brazil and Bolivia are as starved for W10M hardware as you cat's up north.

I think Mexico always had a good supply of Lumias and are probably able to coast on that almost as much as the US.
 

fiveaces01

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Really appreciate all the research you have done to shine a little light on this rumored phone. I also agree with you about price being a huge factor on the less than flagship phones. Just a little digging will show you a lot of phones being offered FREE if you start with a new carrier. You even see some ads that promise a new iPhone. So who pray tell is going to pay 400 for a budget phone. Haven't we already seen this trick tried with the Lumia 830? people that truly need a budget phone could care less what OS the phone has. and they are not going to pay more than 150. That is usually because that is all they can come up with. Anyone still sitting around waiting on this phone would pay most anything if it was truly a Flagship type device. That will not be what we see. Every time that I have waited and continued to wait on some great new phone it has not turned out well.
 

RumoredNow

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So who pray tell is going to pay 400 for a budget phone.

To me:
  • Cat 7 LTE
  • 6", 1080p, ClearBlack, Gorilla Glass 3
  • SD 617 Octacore, Adreno 405
  • 32GB storage + SD slot, 3GB RAM
  • f/2.0 13MP rear camera , 5MP ffc
  • Type-C USB + Continuum + USB Dual Role
  • 3900 mAh battery
That doesn't sound like a budget phone. Lumia 650 is a budget phone. That debuted at $199.
 

fiveaces01

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If those are the actual specs I would consider it...especially if it is a 6 in screen. I just have trouble keeping the faith when devices take so long to release
 

pankaj981

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To me:
  • Cat 7 LTE
  • 6", 1080p, ClearBlack, Gorilla Glass 3
  • SD 617 Octacore, Adreno 405
  • 32GB storage + SD slot, 3GB RAM
  • f/2.0 13MP rear camera , 5MP ffc
  • Type-C USB + Continuum + USB Dual Role
  • 3900 mAh battery
That doesn't sound like a budget phone. Lumia 650 is a budget phone. That debuted at $199.
TBH the SD617 chipset in 2017 is really outdated... unless they sell the device for less than $250.
 

Ben_blarney

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With a user base so small, makes me wonder who would buy a newly released W10 phone unless it was targeted in regions that have not seen a release yet. Or had some incentives/features the others don't...:) T-Mobiles idol 4s is 288 or so...the Lumias are pretty dirt cheap if you can find them brand new, or online, and the x3 keeps dropping in price. I bet when WB comes with something it will not be released in the same way other device makers have. Not sure yet, but from knowledge in the past they would not be the typical OEM we see currently.

I mean enthusiast like maybe you or me will check it out, but how do newer folks coming up in the world get their eye caught on the WM platform, I bet that is the question...

I'm not sure WB is looking to catch new customers though, I think they rather want to be the OEM that sell what W10M fans want. Just for the fan boys I presume
 

RumoredNow

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For Continuum, the choices are limited and the SD 617 is the least costly option for the OEM and the consumer. IMHO, that chipset has been underutilized for W10M and I'd like to see how it does.

Yeah, the 617 may be a bit long in the tooth. I said as much in post 82 above. However, since Snapdragon runs 2xx, 4xx, 6xx and 8xx - I just can't call a 6xx device "budget" even if the SoC is a couple of years old. Add in the other features of the device and it looks to be a nice hardware package to me.

As for price, Windows Phone has never really matched the spec per dollar of Android players. I have my own theories about that and I won't rehash them here. Suffice to say "it is what it is" and I'm glad we don't pay Apple like premiums for hardware. If small OEMs enter this platform you just have to expect they want to make a couple dollars or they will pack up and go elsewhere. Please reference NuAns Neo which had lower overall spec on an SD 617 base and couldn't push outside of Japan at a $400 USD price point. Yet inside Japan they reportedly did quite well... It just costs a bit more than Android to be on this platform.

If price is your prime motivator there are a metric ton of smart featured budget Androids out there. The days of bargain Lumia seem to be all but gone and I don't see them returning.

Please #ColorMeCerulean and that right quick.
 

pankaj981

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Well 617 is just bad (just like the 808 and 810)...too many issues with phones running that chipset (Android). My point is, if they're launching something in 2017, it surely needs to run the 62X series at the minimum. Or just go with a SD430 with 4GB RAM and work with Microsoft on enabling the chipset for Continuum. The 430 does support dual displays and 4GB will be enough to hold enough apps in memory.
 

badelhas

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Well 617 is just bad (just like the 808 and 810)...too many issues with phones running that chipset (Android). My point is, if they're launching something in 2017, it surely needs to run the 62X series at the minimum. Or just go with a SD430 with 4GB RAM and work with Microsoft on enabling the chipset for Continuum. The 430 does support dual displays and 4GB will be enough to hold enough apps in memory.

Yeah, the 625 is much more efficient in terms of battery and still flies through everything very smoothly.

Cheers
 

nate0

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I think continuum is a big thing. If WB brings a phone with decent specs, I feel that it does not necessarily have to feature continuum, this would allow them to choose between other SoC processors and not be limited to the dual display capable ones. Also, it would be awesome...but unless they wait until RS3 to release one, continuum still has limited functionality for the most part (still cool as heck though)...and folks would have to invest in a display dock of some sort (extra $$), unless they manufacture one of their own too...Or...they release two phones, one with continuum like HW one with out...that one can be more or less marked down 1 to 2 hundred less than the feature model
 

pankaj981

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and folks would have to invest in a display dock of some sort (extra $$), unless they manufacture one of their own too
Or they can include a USB-C to multi-I/O adapter, like a cheap one with video out and 3 USB in/out for mouse, keyboard, external portable storage
 

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