Every single laptop/tablet sold should come with Windows 10 S as default. Agree?

garisa

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Re: Every single laptop/tablet sold should come with Windows 10 S as default.

The OEMs could let the consumer decide. Offer a base model with Windows 10 S and another with Windows 10 Pro for $50 more. see which is bought.

I do like the idea of not being locked-in (as was the case with Windows RT) to a dead end OS. Windows 10 S give a path to a full OS should it be required. IF Windows 10 S were on my Surface Pro 3, I am sure I could survive. I have transitioned over time to not depend on Win 32 apps other than Office ones and they will be available through the store. I recently changed settings to require only store apps - I wonder how long that will last before I have to turn it off to get something I really need.
So you would buy hell of an expensive device, and you would be satisfied because "you could survive with it". Good job.😎 But you obviously don't use your PC for much at this moment, just wait for a weekend or a holiday when you get some time to play with your PC for real.😉

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DavidinCT

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Re: Every single laptop/tablet sold should come with Windows 10 S as default.

WOW.... RT all over again...didn't Microsoft learn ?

Maybe 10 years out... if they gain full marketshare where 95% of the apps in the Apple/Google store are in the Windows Store... As Windows Phone users know this is NOT the case at all...and it's not even close.
 

garisa

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Re: Every single laptop/tablet sold should come with Windows 10 S as default.

But you have to admit that this is a lot different from RT. Right now developers don't actually need to developer entirely new apps, but simply to bring their existing apps into the Store.

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Grant Taylor3

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Re: Every single laptop/tablet sold should come with Windows 10 S as default.

Adobe won't bring it to the store, Microsoft would get 30% of the revenue. That's the problem with Windows S, major software developers sell their software online, there is no reason for them to take a 30% cut to revenue.


So it is Ok for Apple to take their 30% but if it is MS then it's a big deal? Double standards.

An app store is also to get devs to write good apps and gets away from the malware download sites like cnet.
 

garisa

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Re: Every single laptop/tablet sold should come with Windows 10 S as default.

Those are not double standards. It's Microsoft who needs to bring apps into their Store, not us. In particular, why would developers help Microsoft to put control over what can and what cannot be installed on a PC... They make applications and programs for many, not because they feel sympathetic towards Microsoft, and just like we don't want to lose or freedom to install whatever we want, so don't developers want to give up their freedom do sell their product as they like. Microsoft simply has to offer them something - be it stopping piracy (if that is even possible), or providing a way for those developers to show that their product a good (which they automatically get when they put their app into the Store thanks to the rating system - if it is really good if course).

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CrazyQwert

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Re: Every single laptop/tablet sold should come with Windows 10 S as default.

Ok, now here's the thing:

A lot of people need apps outside of the store and the store is often not the best distribution platform for any software. Especially students often rely on software from Adobe and the likes, which have their own distribution platform and probably for good reasons. So this would be a blow to a large group of consumers, not just 1% in my opinion.

The store is not a solution to everything!
Yes, I know, distribution via the store has a lot of benefits: Software gets removed without leaving any traces. It is safer as it gets checked beforehand, etc. However there are also shortcomings that are especially annoying for certain types of software: Stores that are being watched for threats such as viruses are awful if you need to get a bugfix to consumers fast. Also they limit you in the way of what features you can have for your consumers versus when having your own distribution platform. Adobe for example allows for installing older versions of their software in case they messed up and a new rollout is unstable. Or you just need that legacy support. A notable example is also Sketchapp on Mac (a popular application for designing UI) which recently moved out of Apples AppStore again and instead went with a more conventional direct install for various reasons they stated on their blog (one of which was speed of approval for updates, afaik).

Window's store problem has to do with the quality of service
Furthermore I think that the windows store isn't being neglected because the evil evil consumer does not understand the great great vision of microsoft and is simply being mean!
No. I think it is because as of yet the store is worse in many regards ... not all that long ago you could not even check for updates manually ... downloading games and other larger applications is really annoying, since you cannot define a bandwidth limit resulting in connection issues if you are trying to do anything else in the meantime. Often enough installations simply fail and restart (had that just yesterday with 40gb of download already done ...).
Other than that most apps offered in the store simply have not nearly the same feature-set as their win32 or webapp counterparts. I do not know whether that is due to development-cuts or because of limitations that the APIs provide or something ...

So at the moment there really is not all that much reason for anyone to use the store.

A compromise
I still think, that the security amongst other benefits are well worth pushing the store, though. But instead of limiting users by simply not allowing them to install other applications at all, I would love to see another approach: Versions like Windows 10 home and / or S have by default the ability to install non-store-apps disabled and it requires you to dive into the settings. Something most grandmas /-pas or tech-newbies are unlikely to do. Others, however, (eg. Students or tech-savvy people, who are likely to need the feature anyway) can enable it. Versions like Windows 10 Pro have enabled it by default, since the userbase is very likely to enable it anyway. This in my opinion would make far more sense than what Windows 10 S is right now.
 

Drael646464

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So it is Ok for Apple to take their 30% but if it is MS then it's a big deal? Double standards.

An app store is also to get devs to write good apps and gets away from the malware download sites like cnet.

Who said its okay for apple? Normally stores do take a percentage markup (physical or virtual). But that markup is usually, in physical stores, proportional to the cost. For example, a physical store makes much more money from large markups on accessories, proportional to say, expensive devices, both by volume and by percentage markup.

I think the "old system" works better here. High volume, cheap development software should be the ones that pay more to the store. Low volume, expensive development software should pay less. It could be graded based on price, like an inverse tax system.

So it is Ok for Apple to take their 30% but if it is MS then it's a big deal? Double standards.

An app store is also to get devs to write good apps and gets away from the malware download sites like cnet.

Who said its okay for apple? Normally stores do take a percentage markup (physical or virtual). But that markup is usually, in physical stores, proportional to the cost. For example, a physical store makes much more money from large markups on accessories, proportional to say, expensive devices, both by volume and by percentage markup.

I think the "old system" works better here. High volume, cheap development software should be the ones that pay more to the store. Low volume, expensive development software should pay less. It could be graded based on price, like an inverse tax system.

Either way, regardless of whats "fair", MSFT does need to encourage UWP as much as possible. Current developers distributing very well on their own (like fruity loops, or adobe, or EA, or anyone distributing via steam), have little incentive to bridge.

I think the store needs a hmm, how shall we say, generous and "free and open" proposition to draw in maximum development. In that, I would include some kind of deal worked out with steam, origin, gog.com etc, given windows is THE most popular gaming platform.

Why Windows must die. For the third time | ZDNet
 
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orlbuckeye

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Re: Every single laptop/tablet sold should come with Windows 10 S as default.

Well years back the automobile manufacturers forced you to have to buy unleaded fuel. I remember the transition period when gas stations had both. So the same thing would happen with computers. MS won't force you to use UWP apps until the software companies are ready for it. The amount of software available is what made MS the leader and their not going to ruin that.
 

SteelSteve

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Re: Every single laptop/tablet sold should come with Windows 10 S as default.

Is it known if Windows 10 S was designed to perform better than say Windows 10 Home on lower end devices? If so this would be a good solution for Atom based tablets that can't really handle the installation of regular software. However I can't see ever wanting this on any normal laptop, the Microsoft store just has to many missing apps to replace over the counter software. The one thing that scares me a little is this kinda smacks of Window RT and we all know how well that went.
 

digitaldd

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Re: Every single laptop/tablet sold should come with Windows 10 S as default.

Well with Creators Update i believe there is an option to allow only Store apps to be installed under Apps & Features.. Installing apps. I know I've see both a Warn when installing non-store apps and “Allow apps from the Store only”.
 

j m robin

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Tablets: yes - Laptops: no

I feel like if they were to pull that with a laptop, we would have a similar debacle as with Windows RT with less tech-abled people crying bloody murder. PR would suddenly go back to square one (just my opinion)

But I do agree that tablets should automatically be sent to this configuration. People are less likely to need win32 applications on their 8-10" screens and thus would make more sense to include a faster, more streamlined experience out of the box. Tablets, in general, are more geared for media consumption, which 10 S would be perfect for.
 

theefman

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Most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. If you buy Windows you should get Windows, not some stripped down, time sensitive version. Microsoft fanboys have bashed ipads for years as toys because they only run apps but it's ok when the apps are on Windows? Typical hypocrisy.

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Easy-G

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Only a Sith deals in absolutes! :grin:

You have a point. One more big reason to use Windows 10 S by default is performance. For those more casual PC users (web browsing, online shopping, facebooking, Office'ing folk), Windows 10 S delivers everything you need and is faster and more secure than Windows 10 Home/Pro. This type of user may never want/need to install any program that isn't found in the Store - however, they would be pretty pissed to find it necessary to pay for a Windows upgrade for a single, essential program after the "free upgrade" window has passed.

This also kinda sorta works for more savvy users as well - they will be loading up specialized, non-Store programs right from the get go, no worry about missing the "free upgrade" time frame, and they're more comfortable upgrading/changing default settings.

It's probably not essential for each and every laptop/tablet to ship with Windows 10 S, but it could certainly be of benefit for a large group of users, in the right use case and at the correct price point.
 

bobsentell

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The "average" user of Windows doesn't know how to properly use a computer, as evidenced by the outbreak of a exploit of a defect that was fixed months ago had you just let Windows do its own thing. I like this idea for lower cost PCs. Once you get over a certain price point, say $1,500, one would assume they would be power users and thus put 10 Pro on those.

Remember, this isn't really a "stripped down" version of Windows, just a "locked down" one. If there is a way to unlock it, it should be easy enough for power users but not easy enough for my grandma to accidentally run into.
 

labsii

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If Microsoft could at least release Microsoft Office for Windows Store, then maybe though some more quality apps would be welcome.

However Microsoft is talking that Office will come to the Store soon for ages now.
 

seasidepb

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Seems to me it's worth reminding people that MS has NOT made 10S mandatory, probably for all the reasons discussed here. Its laudable aim with UWP is to push developers towards a better, stricter model for OS interaction, one that doesn't knacker the OS over time. But if its serious about that it needs to be removing as many barriers to the shift as possible, including commercial ones - trying to force the market when the software's not in place is clearly not the way to go, but as I say, MS hasn't done that. What it is doing with 10S I think is to try seed consumer demand, probably in the hope this will get more developers interested. It would benefit us all if they succeeded.
 

saket87

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I see people saying that's very bad. Well then I would say that is not for you. If you think that's bad then just unlock it to home or pro. While I have seen commenters say nobody wants to pay extra, you need to realize that your laptop will be cheaper in the first place to buy with 10S.
I've seen people with adware and toolbars (when fixing other's computers) that get installed without them even knowing. For those people it's great to use 10s. If you know what you're doing then it's not for you. And also if you buy a installer to install yourself that should not be S.
I agree with the OP, makes the laptop tablet cheaper (which should be logical) and safe and secure. If you are against it, then you need to think about people who's computer is filled with adware which is a lot. Before you say it's their fault for not taking care of it, realize that they don't know it's there and how to take care of it. For those people they should use S. Also and the time to unlock should be more than 6 months. I would say 1-2 years would be sweet.
 

MadSci2

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Re: Every single laptop/tablet sold should come with Windows 10 S as default.

In a word - NO!
To begin with, this is Microsoft. Their understanding of what Consumers want, how to inform/sell to them, and support are so poor that forcing this unwanted/unfamiliar OS on them is very unwise.

Case in point. This weekend I bought a Surface Laptop. I have an Office 365 home subscription, so naturally I tried to implement it on my brand new Microsoft machine.

- Epic Fail! It couldn't install because the link that is sent to your email when you add the machine to your Office 365 permission list only attempts to install the version from Microsoft's Office 365 Site - not the Store!

Hello! Microsoft! This is your system. You own it end to end. Having it not work for a Customer who plunks down a premium price for an all Microsoft hardware/software system is inexcusable!

And it gets better. There are NO notifications as to why it won't work. You hit the button on the browser and nothing happens. No banner, no explanation - nothing.

And it gets even better when you try to get help from Microsoft's own Technicians. After being told all the details, including the OS involved, they follow a script that begins from the assumption that the problem is that Edge is incompatible with the web page involved. Yes, that's right. Microsoft BEGINS with the assumption that their own browser/webpages are faulty.

After 45 minutes of this and other nonsense I hung up, upgraded the laptop to Win 10Pro and everything worked just fine.

Imagine the massive CF if all the windows machines currently being sold had this problem! Presumably, Microsoft is comfortable using it's premium paying customers to debug a system that they have clearly given NO thought to whatsoever. Another brilliant customer satisfaction plan from the geniuses who brought you Windows Me, Vista and Windows Phone!

The only good thing you can say about this is that by limiting the dissatisfied and abused customers to those who bought Microsoft hardware, they are increasing the opportunities for increased market share for OEMs!
 

COLIN BARNHORST

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Re: Every single laptop/tablet sold should come with Windows 10 S as default.

NO!

Isn't there an anti-trust issue here? If Apple could have gotten away with this wouldn't they? You bet!
 

tgp

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Re: Every single laptop/tablet sold should come with Windows 10 S as default.

Imagine the massive CF if all the windows machines currently being sold had this problem! Presumably, Microsoft is comfortable using it's premium paying customers to debug a system that they have clearly given NO thought to whatsoever. Another brilliant customer satisfaction plan from the geniuses who brought you Windows Me, Vista and Windows Phone!

Here's my opinion on this: Microsoft believes that most customers will purchase the Pro upgrade. This will have a valuable purpose; hardware sales will increase because prices on the shelf are lower, but buyers will end up paying the extra cost of full Windows anyway. Even if they didn't intend to upgrade, they'll probably end up doing it anyway after an experience similar to yours.
 

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