Google latest ploy with CalDAV

[fardream]

What are you talking about?

I have my outlook.com set up on my iPhone, work iPad, WP8, and my W8 machine. It syncs everything, email, contacts, and calendar on all devices.

S/he is talking about MAC, which only supports the full exchange server, not exchange ActiveSync.

 

[Mystictrust]

I don't think you have to worry about Google Voice. They transcode conversations and index the content. They have a record of who people talk to, what they talk about, and how often. It is information Google considers valuable for their profiling efforts.

You're probably right about that one. If I could find an international calling provider that's cheaper than GV (and relatively easy to use) I'd happily use the non-Google one instead (nope, not Skype, they're not even close with their Skype Out rates. That and received Skype Out calls kind of blow in call quality sometimes... if GV uses voip for int'l calls it's masked extremely well because call quality is exactly as a regular phone call, unlike Skype). International calling is the aspect of backing out of GV that is tough to break... it's easy to stop giving out my GV number, but it's hard to run away from better prices.

 

[ag1986]

But they sent their chairman to North Korea to influence that outcome, paid for Obama's inauguration parties (twice), and Lobbied more than any other tech company.
Obama also created a government position that didn't previously exist just so Eric Schmidt could fill it. You didn't think a government that has such a relationship with a company would actually punish it, did you? That laughable $7 million fine for wardriving is proof of that.

oh and there is this little quote:

“Some governments will consider it too risky to have thousands of anonymous,
untraceable, unverified citizens – “hidden people;” they’ll want to know who is
associated with each online account and will require verification at a state
level, in order to exert control over the virtual world.”
- Google Chairman Eric Schmidt




Yet their quarterly profit is a fraction of Microsoft's and Apple's. If Google were valued based on their earnings statements their share price would be between $250 and $330. Their current market cap is inflated, the company is grossly overvalued right now.

MSFT 2012 was a 400M loss, if I'm not mistaken (the aQuantive deal...). Re $7M fine, I agree what they did was wrong, but the punishment fits the crime. I honestly do not understand how n GB of random wifi packets helps anyone do anything. Again, Google has never been formally accused of, let alone convicted, of any privacy violation.

 

[ag1986]

Please stick to the topic. You have not even commented on the CalDAV spec support removal which is what we are talking about. Also I would like to hear the comments of a google supporter on this matter, so please, don't just leave. And read the original post fully before commenting. Humble request from OP. Thanks.

Point taken. I will however point out that the one statement supporting Google (rational, without vulgar language) was immediately jumped upon while other posts which were neither, were ignored.

About CalDAV, I understand that now, developers using CalDAV Google Sync will have to apply for whitelisting; and Matt Cutts posted that it will be a fast, free, painless process. All the major players (iOS, BB, and yes, Microsoft) will be able to transparently use CalDAV without any problems. This handles like 99% of the use case. What's the problem?

 

[ag1986]

I don't think you have to worry about Google Voice. They transcode conversations and index the content. They have a record of who people talk to, what they talk about, and how often. It is information Google considers valuable for their profiling efforts.

And the government likes it too. Law Enforcement could infer a lot from just having a call log, with Google they get the whole conversation. No hiding from that.

See FSB can tap your Skype without court order | Barentsobserver . Basically states that MS has given Russian police free access to Skype calls.

Of course, I'm sure that if the NSA or whoever want access to your communications they'll get it, regardless of whether that's Google, MSFT, Verizon, whoever. I will however point out that Google is the only such company which publishes stats on such requests by the government, and they're also the first company that releases ANY data on requests by so-called National Security Letters. Other companies won't even admit that they receive and comply with these letters.

 

[Mystictrust]

About CalDAV, I understand that now, developers using CalDAV Google Sync will have to apply for whitelisting; and Matt Cutts posted that it will be a fast, free, painless process. All the major players (iOS, BB, and yes, Microsoft) will be able to transparently use CalDAV without any problems. This handles like 99% of the use case. What's the problem?

So great, keep CalDAV around for everyone else to be able to use... that'll work fine. My fear in this case is that if (when?) iOS jumps on board with Google's silly little proprietary thing, Google decides to cut support for the "aging/old/horrible" CalDAV system and cuts everyone else out. I suppose they could get cocky though and cut out iOS once enough Android users are off old devices that don't support their new proprietary thing... that could force any Google account holder to choose between another OS or using their contacts/calendars with an Android device.

Chances are high though that Google will want to stick with iPhone and give them access simply because of marketshare (they wouldn't want a huge negative PR nightmare), but Windows Phone is out no matter what.

 

[kishorekumar_a]

Point taken. I will however point out that the one statement supporting Google (rational, without vulgar language) was immediately jumped upon while other posts which were neither, were ignored.

About CalDAV, I understand that now, developers using CalDAV Google Sync will have to apply for whitelisting; and Matt Cutts posted that it will be a fast, free, painless process. All the major players (iOS, BB, and yes, Microsoft) will be able to transparently use CalDAV without any problems. This handles like 99% of the use case. What's the problem?

Sorry for making you feel like I singled you out. I just came online then and yours was the first comment I saw. Though I replied to your post, it was supposed to be for everyone posting. It didn't work it seems, as it immediately deteriorated in to politics. Sorry once again.

About white listing of developers, it does not make sense for the developers to apply for white list for as simple a matter as calender sync. They would rather simply go over to the Google Calendar API and slowly the CalDAV will become forgotten. That is what I am afraid of, Google using large market share in its mail and services to push every thing towards google products and open standards being nothing more than tools used for this purpose. It becomes more worrying if corporations like Microsoft catches up to this plot, and decides to use it themselves. Ultimately, this is a loss for the open standards only.

 

[kishorekumar_a]

Just read a news from WMPoweruser. Microsoft themselves removed the support for the calendar and contact sync in the recent update for WP7 temporarily until support for CalDAV and CardDAV arrives. This will push the existing users toward Outlook, at least that's what Microsoft most likely wants to achieve. This is what I am afraid of, major corporations playing like this instead of honestly supporting open standards. The result is loss for the end user.

 

[ag1986]

Sorry for making you feel like I singled you out. I just came online then and yours was the first comment I saw. Though I replied to your post, it was supposed to be for everyone posting. It didn't work it seems, as it immediately deteriorated in to politics. Sorry once again.

About white listing of developers, it does not make sense for the developers to apply for white list for as simple a matter as calender sync. They would rather simply go over to the Google Calendar API and slowly the CalDAV will become forgotten. That is what I am afraid of, Google using large market share in its mail and services to push every thing towards google products and open standards being nothing more than tools used for this purpose. It becomes more worrying if corporations like Microsoft catches up to this plot, and decides to use it themselves. Ultimately, this is a loss for the open standards only.

Catching up to the plot? EAS was proprietary and worse, paid!

Perhaps I'm ignorant, but in my six years of using smartphones (T-Mobile/HTC G1, Nexus One, iPhone 4, Lumia 610, Galaxy Nexus, L920 & Nexus 4) I've never used anything but the built-in calendar/contacts apps. I've come across apps that are basically a front-end to the existing databases, but the actual sync mechanism has been baked into the OS. Now, iOS has support for calDAV, WP will soon have it as well. Likewise BB et al. Android is the only OS that includes both the Google calendar API, but DAV works just as well (on iOS at least). My perspective is that as long as the OS sync mechanisms work, there's nothing to worry about. Of course, if there are widely used third-party calendar apps, please let me know.

Remember that apps can still read/write to the phone calendar and this syncs using whatever the protocol is. For example, TripIT. I enter a flight number and date; TripIT then creates appropriate calendar entries for me. This will still be possible because TripIT doesn't care if my phone is using EAS, DAV or gCal.

 

[ag1986]

So great, keep CalDAV around for everyone else to be able to use... that'll work fine. My fear in this case is that if (when?) iOS jumps on board with Google's silly little proprietary thing, Google decides to cut support for the "aging/old/horrible" CalDAV system and cuts everyone else out. I suppose they could get cocky though and cut out iOS once enough Android users are off old devices that don't support their new proprietary thing... that could force any Google account holder to choose between another OS or using their contacts/calendars with an Android device.

Chances are high though that Google will want to stick with iPhone and give them access simply because of marketshare (they wouldn't want a huge negative PR nightmare), but Windows Phone is out no matter what.

Apple doesn't have a horse in this race. They don't have ulterior motives of wanting their phone customers to use Gmail or Outlook. So it is in their best interest to support as many platforms as possible.

 

[kishorekumar_a]

Catching up to the plot? EAS was proprietary and worse, paid!

Perhaps I'm ignorant, but in my six years of using smartphones (T-Mobile/HTC G1, Nexus One, iPhone 4, Lumia 610, Galaxy Nexus, L920 & Nexus 4) I've never used anything but the built-in calendar/contacts apps. I've come across apps that are basically a front-end to the existing databases, but the actual sync mechanism has been baked into the OS. Now, iOS has support for calDAV, WP will soon have it as well. Likewise BB et al. Android is the only OS that includes both the Google calendar API, but DAV works just as well (on iOS at least). My perspective is that as long as the OS sync mechanisms work, there's nothing to worry about. Of course, if there are widely used third-party calendar apps, please let me know.

Remember that apps can still read/write to the phone calendar and this syncs using whatever the protocol is. For example, TripIT. I enter a flight number and date; TripIT then creates appropriate calendar entries for me. This will still be possible because TripIT doesn't care if my phone is using EAS, DAV or gCal.

That's the problem, isn't it? that they are cutting of CalDAV. I'm not just talking about major players, what about the small app developers who develop well designed calendars with CalDAV protocal. How about future developers of calendars? Will they have to resort to Google Calender API for sync with google account? What happened to going open standards?

Example if widely used calendars:

Business calendar - Play store
Vsys Calendar - WP Store
My daily planner - WP store

 

[EauRouge]

yeah google is really irritating me lately. they are trying to bully everyone a little too hard and the consumer gets shafted

 

[kishorekumar_a]

yeah google is really irritating me lately. they are trying to bully everyone a little too hard and the consumer gets shafted

Exactly. The one's most affected are the developers and end users.

 

[jhoff80]

Catching up to the plot? EAS was proprietary and worse, paid!

Except everything has support for EAS, because it continues to be the best solution for the end-user. Google pulled EAS support under the guise of making things more free and open (getting a lot of support from the open-source zealots) with a 'superior' standard that isn't really, and a few months later closed down this access to go to something else proprietary that nobody has support for. As mentioned already, it's hostile to the users, and it's hostile to the developers.

Yes, they're saying for now Microsoft has access to CalDAV, but Google has now shown that if they feel like it, they'll drop everything with no regard for the people dependent on something, like they're doing with Google Reader and like they did with EAS (until Microsoft begged for an extension). Maybe you're fine with that, but I'm not.

 

[trwrt]

I would guess Google probably decided they could no longer justify paying a licensing fee for EAS and then giving it away for free. Maybe if that cuddly champion of the users Microsoft would offer them a no-cost EAS license ("think of the children!") they would be able to keep doing it?

 

[kishorekumar_a]

I would guess Google probably decided they could no longer justify paying a licensing fee for EAS and then giving it away for free. Maybe if that cuddly champion of the users Microsoft would offer them a no-cost EAS license ("think of the children!") they would be able to keep doing it?

The EAS is not a pay per user license, it's a collective license. Meaning that they pay the same amount even now to provide the service for existing users and will pay the same amount even if a million new users joined Gmail tomorrow and used EAS. The total payment amount does not depend on the total number of users. That in itself makes your point moot, as they are already paying the license fee for their paid users. First get a good knowledge on how this particular licensing works before accusing Microsoft for everything.

Oh they are not giving it away for free. They are providing the service in exchange for the information collected about you and the opportunity to advertise to you. Look at it neutrally, or better yet from a consumer point of view, we are the ones who are affect because of this and the developers.

Regardless, this topic is not about dropping EAS support but about dropping CalDAV support. That did not cost them anything did it? So why did they drop support for it? Why switch over to proprietary Google Calendar API after saying they are going for open standards? Why mislead the users and developers deliberately? I can go on... But answer these questions if you can...

 

[rhodri22]

Oh they are not giving it away for free. They are providing the service in exchange for the information collected about you and the opportunity to advertise to you. Look at it neutrally, or better yet from a consumer point of view, we are the ones who are affect because of this and the developers.

Agreed. If this was a completely free, and ad-free, service then I wouldn't care about what they were doing because you're getting something for free. But because they're targeting you to use their service with their ads you deserve to get the best service that can be offered. That means open standards that can be used by everyone, regardless of OS.

IMO this is just Google stepping slightly closer to a massive fine from either the FTC or the EU for monopolistic / anti competitive practices.

 

[rdubmu]

What are you talking about?

I have my outlook.com set up on my iPhone, work iPad, WP8, and my W8 machine. It syncs everything, email, contacts, and calendar on all devices.

outlook doesn't work on a MAC. You only get pop3 access. Even with outlook 2011 for the MAC. It only gets pop3.

The other issue is Google Calendar is far superior to most things out there. I personally believe it is one of their best products.
Sent from my Nokia Lumia 920 using Board Express

 

[ag1986]

The EAS is not a pay per user license, it's a collective license. Meaning that they pay the same amount even now to provide the service for existing users and will pay the same amount even if a million new users joined Gmail tomorrow and used EAS. The total payment amount does not depend on the total number of users. That in itself makes your point moot, as they are already paying the license fee for their paid users. First get a good knowledge on how this particular licensing works before accusing Microsoft for everything.

Oh they are not giving it away for free. They are providing the service in exchange for the information collected about you and the opportunity to advertise to you. Look at it neutrally, or better yet from a consumer point of view, we are the ones who are affect because of this and the developers.

Regardless, this topic is not about dropping EAS support but about dropping CalDAV support. That did not cost them anything did it? So why did they drop support for it? Why switch over to proprietary Google Calendar API after saying they are going for open standards? Why mislead the users and developers deliberately? I can go on... But answer these questions if you can...

EAS licensing works on a slab basis, i.e. if you have say from 100 -1000 users you pay X and if you have from 1000 - 100K you pay Y etc. I'm assuming that since consumer Gmail accounts probably account for like 90% of all Gmail, Google is saving a lot of money this way. I can't find fault with that.

Stop saying DAV support is DISABLED. It's still very much there and for a given developer to get whitelisted, it's a matter of filling out a form, and the process will be as simple as applying to publish an app for the Play Store, which is easy enough (source: friends who develop for Android heard from Google developer relations).

 

[kishorekumar_a]

outlook doesn't work on a MAC. You only get pop3 access. Even with outlook 2011 for the MAC. It only gets pop3.

The other issue is Google Calendar is far superior to most things out there. I personally believe it is one of their best products.
Sent from my Nokia Lumia 920 using Board Express

Isn't EAS or IMAP possible on Mac?

I agree Google calendar is good. But they are being so frustrating, that they are making some leave. I don't even know any device that supports Google Calendar API. Does even Android support it? They should make it accessible through as many protocols to ease the customer, but they are cutting off other protocols for pushing their own standard. That's what makes me mad.

By the way, Outlook's calendar is good too.