Has microsoft made an oath to stay behind the competition?

[squire777]

Quad core and higher - sure why not. It's not needed at the moment but it wouldn't hurt.

1080P or higher on a handheld device? Pointless since it won't make a noticeable difference on a screen so small.

 

[NaNoo123]

I'm curious if the processor is the bottleneck. Seeing phones lag with quad-core while my Focus S runs smoothly makes me thing if the lag is because of the storage or GPU or RAM.

that's one of the reasons i mentioned gpu.
Not all dual or quad cores are equal, gpus must play a part in it all.
Is the gpu in iphone 5 pretty good, average or what?
I dont follow what's in iphone, and only have a passing interest in android at the moment. Although that may all change end of year if i continue to feel like MS is treating it like its lowest priority item. Totally personal feeling.

 

[z33dev33l]

that's one of the reasons i mentioned gpu.
Not all dual or quad cores are equal, gpus must play a part in it all.
Is the gpu in iphone 5 pretty good, average or what?
I dont follow what's in iphone, and only have a passing interest in android at the moment. Although that may all change end of year if i continue to feel like MS is treating it like its lowest priority item. Totally personal feeling.

Gpu is pretty much the only aspect iPhones excel in

 

[Squachy]

They'll catch up this upcoming gen. They fubared the entire thing right from the get go. they would have been fine if they started with the Snapdragon S2 instead of the S1.

When WP7 came out, they were using snapdragon S1/Adreno200 (everyone else was on snapdragon S2/Adreno205)
When WP7.5 came out they were using snapdragon S2/Adreno205 (everyone was on snapdragon s3/Adreno220, Snapdragon S4/Adreno225)
When WP8 came out they were using dual core snapdragon S4/Adreno225 (everyone else was moving onto quad core S4 with Adreno225 or 320, and releasing the dual core S4 on mid tier phones and lower)
When their quad core support comes in they'll be using the Snapdragon 400 (I think this is quad core 1.2-4ghz/Adreno305), 600(1.7-1.9ghz/Adreno320), 800 (2+ghz/Adreno330) line. It'll be current as long as the support gets here (hopefully sooner rather than later).
Samsung Galaxy S4 uses either its own Exynos 'octa' or Snapdragon 600 (I think). HTC One uses the Snapdragon 600. LG G2 (unannounced currently) will use Snapdragon 800, that sony 6.4" phablet will have Snapdragon 800, the Korean Galaxy S4 is using the Snapdragon 800. So far those are the only devices that have gone Snapdragon 800. Hopefully the Lumia EOS will as well.

If the Eos comes out with Dual core Snapdragon S4 with Adreno225 again (same guts as the Lumia 920).....that will be an epic fail and will be a pretty sad flagship especially if its going to be compared with the HTC One and Galaxy S4. The loudest voice always comes from the vocal minority, which is almost always the tech enthusiast group. That usually leads the perception. mid-tier phones and low end phones may sell the most but they usually go about it quietly.

If they make it clear they have 2 variants then perhaps depending on when the second variant is coming they can get away with it.

Apple processors and GPU are especially good which is why they can get away with yearly interval upgrades. They've always performed near or at the top of every new Android release.

 

[smoledman]

Microsoft was late to start on Windows Phone with NT kernel compared to iOS & Android development lines. 2-3 years late. I don't think Microsoft can ever catch up as Apple/Google are proceeding at breakneck speed.

 

[maverick786us]

iPhone uses 560 X 1130 resolution which no way closer to 720P. At such a low resolution if its GPU will do a fine job. But can the same GPU work fine at higher resolution?

 

[AngryNil]

1080p → 1440p is going to be largely pointless. Android manufacturers can enjoy their brand new processors being bogged down by having to push all those pixels, for a higher pixel density that no one will notice in practice.

What's more concerning is that Windows Phone is behind Microsoft's other products in development, despite being the poorest performing and least feature complete of them all. A better processor is always welcome (Snapdragon 400+600 for GDR3/Blue devices), but the software needs to improve fast. Both Android and iOS announced major feature additions earlier this year. I'll be shaking my head if Microsoft thinks GDR3 with little more than a chassis bump is enough to compete.

 

[maverick786us]

Microsoft was late to start on Windows Phone with NT kernel compared to iOS & Android development lines. 2-3 years late. I don't think Microsoft can ever catch up as Apple/Google are proceeding at breakneck speed.

But Microsoft has the infrastructure, the work force and technology to catch up fast

 

[smoledman]

But Microsoft has the infrastructure, the work force and technology to catch up fast

Google & Apple have all of those things to keep ahead.

 

[FinancialP]

I've never met a person in real life that cares about phone cores. Literally never. All these people that care about cores only seem to exist online to me. ijs

You cant compare specs of Android to Windows Phone, thats pointless and makes no sense. A controlled environment vs a open environment. A better comparison is iOS vs Windows Phone.

We need to talk about ram and memory management. I witness 256mb and 512mb ram iOS devices do amazing things compared to my windows phone.

 

[WavingReds]

I've never met a person in real life that cares about phone cores. Literally never. All these people that care about cores only seem to exist online to me. ijs

Same here. Only thing I care about my phone these days is the Camera and how it looks.

You have no idea how many people ask how good the camera & battery & how many app there are on a smart phone until you sell them. Then you will realize that tech specs is >>>>> meaningless <<<<<< to a regular consumer.

 

[maverick786us]

I've never met a person in real life that cares about phone cores. Literally never. All these people that care about cores only seem to exist online to me. ijs

You cant compare specs of Android to Windows Phone, thats pointless and makes no sense. A controlled environment vs a open environment. A better comparison is iOS vs Windows Phone.

We need to talk about ram and memory management. I witness 256mb and 512mb ram iOS devices do amazing things compared to my windows phone.

Same here. Only thing I care about my phone these days is the Camera and how it looks.

You have no idea how many people ask how good the camera & battery & how many app there are on a smart phone until you sell them. Then you will realize that tech specs is >>>>> meaningless <<<<<< to a regular consumer.

Before IOS 7 iPhone never had true multi-tasking capabilities. I can't comment on WP8s memory management. But it doesn't look good, as i see my Lumia 920 often gets heated up while browsing net using 3G, while using Nokia Drive and while playing games.

More cores always smoothen multi-tasking, which will put less load on processor, which will result in less heat. Offcourse microsoft has to make WP8 more memory efficient and a perfect mobile OS for multi-tasking.

 

[a5cent]

More cores always smoothen multi-tasking, which will put less load on processor, which will result in less heat. Offcourse microsoft has to make WP8 more memory efficient and a perfect mobile OS for multi-tasking.

First, multiple cores don't always "smoothen" multitasking, particularly not on an OS like WP which is deliberately designed not to multi-task. Second, the CPU load generated by any given app is invariant, no matter how many cores the CPU has. Finally, heat generated by a CPU isn't directly related to core count, but rather to the number of active transistors, clock rate and manufacturing process.

Some of you imagine core count to be some magical silver bullet that will solve every computing problem you've ever encountered. It's not. It's good for some things, but completely useless for others.

 

[dreamwizwp]

I think what many fail to realize in terms of resolution is that it's not about if you can see a pixel on 720p vs. 1080p. This hasn't been the problem for a long time now, since iPhone introduced Retina displays. The difference is in how much content you fit on that small screen and this is where 1080p runs circles around 720p.

When it comes to RAM and CPU - yes, WP8 can run smoothly on dual core and 1GB RAM. However, you can't deny that it would benefit from higher specs in many areas, for example Nokia's new smart camera apps etc. The lack of true multitasking is a big turn off for many users and I don't see why MS still sticks with this. Battery life? Not so sure. I don't see WP8 devices having significantly better battery life over Android. At the least they could allow some level of true multitasking, perhaps like allowing software to run 10-15 minutes on the background before starting to drop network connections.

The price difference between new flagship WP8 phones vs. Android phones is almost non-existing. Yet the WP8 phones are running on hardware that is ancient in terms of mobile technology. Fine, but shouldn't the price then be set accordingly? Please raise your hand if you would buy a two year old car model for the price of this year's model.

Windows Phone 8 will have to match Android and preferably exceed it in terms of hardware specs if they wish to get converts from the Android world. Let's face it, if there was a flagship Lumia with Nokia design and software and spec sheet matching Galaxy S4, sales would be much higher than currently.

 

[AngryNil]

The difference is in how much content you fit on that small screen and this is where 1080p runs circles around 720p.

Sorry, but why in the world would 1080p be necessary to fit content on a 5" screen? It has to be said: 400+ PPI adds absolutely zero functional benefit. It's a nicety, nothing more. What fits on a screen, in this context, is purely a function of software and screen size. Considering the talks of Windows Phone phablets and 3-column home screen, I would say that it is an area that Microsoft seems to be intent on addressing.

Windows Phone 8 will have to match Android and preferably exceed it in terms of hardware specs if they wish to get converts from the Android world.

Where'd you pull this out of? WP8 definitely does not have to match Android in hardware specs, it needs to provide and market a meaningfully better experience than a previous Android device that consumers have owned. You should also toss out this concept of a mass market "Android world", just as people should have never thought there was some bulletproof "Windows world". (Referring to the consumer space specifically here.)

Remember that there are huge numbers of Android garbage being sold, somewhat similar to how the average Windows PC is junk.

 

[NaNoo123]

You cant compare android with wp? And why not?
If i have a game on both devices and it plays better on one compared to the other, why is that a bad comparison?
If one can take more burst shots etc than the other, why not?
Yet people seem happy to compare cameras, strange that, or are you not comparing them across android and wp?

If there is a problem with wanting a quad core device, maybe if its just said as, they want a better cpu and gpu would that help?

Quality and efficiency of cores matter, but if cores was so irrelevant why didn't wp stick with single cores?
I thought one of the benefits of wp8 compared to wp7 was the fact it could use multiple cores, and no that never meant just 2.
Guess 5 years from now it will be fine releasing same spec devices as wp9 doesn't lag on it.

I think there's a lot to be said for controlling the specs the way MS does, but i think its more important for the minimum spec than top end.

 

[a5cent]

When it comes to RAM and CPU - yes, WP8 can run smoothly on dual core and 1GB RAM. However, you can't deny that it would benefit from higher specs in many areas...

In that last sentence the term 'higher specs' is too unspecific to really mean anything. If it is intended to mean 'more than two cores', then I can and do deny that there are many areas where they would be noticeably useful..

That won't change as long as WP's multi-tasking model stays the way it is. Most of the things people imagine those cores would help with are actually handled by the DSP and/or the GPU, leaving the CPU cores completely irrelevant.

What really would make a difference? Primarily higher per core IPC (even if that means sacrificing two cores to make the remaining two cores more powerful) and much more powerful GPUs. Interestingly, Apple is the only OEM with the freedom to go all out with that strategy, because they aren't forced to market towards ill-informed geeks.

 

[NaNoo123]

WP8 definitely does not have to match Android in hardware specs, it needs to provide and market a meaningfully better experience than a previous Android device that consumers have owned.

i would say you need to provide a better experience than the current device they could get, not just previous to what they owned.
the fact you also mentioned that MS is looking to address the 1080p/phablet market etc, just shows that there is demand for it, although it took them long to realise and do something about it. I'm not saying its easy to do, just actual time frames to market, etc.

I'm also aware that you was refuting the benefit of 1080p on smaller displays.
I was just using your reply to prove that there is nothing wrong with wanting 1080 displays.
But cant at the moment due to current wp8 limitations, not because there's no point in them.

 

[Daniel Ratcliffe]

Yeah. User Experience is king. I mean look at Apple. They don't use Next-Gen specs but their phones work really well and provide a fantastic experience. Android makers use specs as a way to differentiate themselves and that's what caused the specs war. Unfortunately, because WP has manufacturers similar to Android, it means WP has also been told it needs to partake in the Spec Wars Master Race. But I had a better experience with my titan than I did with my Desire Z and Flyer combined and I had good experiences with both.

 

[NaNoo123]

In that last sentence the term 'higher specs' is too unspecific to really mean anything. If it is intended to mean 'more than two cores', then I can and do deny that there are many areas where they would be noticeably useful..

That won't change as long as WP's multi-tasking model stays the way it is. Most of the things people imagine those cores would help with are actually handled by the DSP and/or the GPU, leaving the CPU cores completely irrelevant.

What really would make a difference? Primarily higher per core IPC (even if that means sacrificing two cores to make the remaining two cores more powerful) and much more powerful GPUs. Interestingly, Apple is the only OEM with the freedom to go all out with that strategy, because they aren't forced to market towards ill-informed geeks.

or maybe they have that freedom due to the quality of the chips they produce, that includes the gpu.
is it as simple as saying more cores is better? No. Easily proven by the gs4, the 4 and 8 variety are closely matched and 4 is better in certain scenarios. Although the 8 is really a 4+4.

But as even you have highlighted better specs can make a difference, even if its not as simple as saying core count. Its just easier for some people to put it that way instead of going into (due to not having that level of knowledge) different gpus, memory, core types, etc.